the BIBLE is clear on being VEGETARIAN

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by dafenstein, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    I must have been seen coming from a distance . . . or maybe it is easy to recognise the sound of my foot-steps.

    HARE KRISHNAS world-wide are fampously known for their First-Class vegetarian gourmet feasts.

    BTW, to remove a vice, such as flesh-eating, or any type of vice, one must replace the taste for such vices with "a higher taste" ---this occurs with magical frequency to those persons who tatse foodstuffs prepared by Hare Krishna Devotees yoga-potentcies.



    Re: the BIBLE is clear on being VEGETARIAN

    Spoken like a true dogmatic with no ability to actually support baseless claims. "It is true, but you are too stupid to understand it."

    That sort of thinking produces terrorists and genocides.

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    the old saying is, The only things in life that we are OBLIGATED TO DO ARE "pay taxes and die".

    All other pursuits are on our own recognisance (note the use of the word Cognisance).

    BTW, the famous Bhaktivedanta Swami explained what Brahmins have said since time-immemorial, "Meat-eating" derives a person the capacity for understanding sublime thought and thus a meat-eater is bereft of true and absolute compassion".

    be seeing you,
    bhaktajan #6
     
  2. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Thanks, for the encouragement.

    ???!!!

    How does one keep meat carcasses fresh for eating in a region without refrigeration?
    How many genrations could one survive healthily eating salted & cured meat (salted & cured meats are not cooked!).

    Bin Laden & Stalin & Mao & Po-Pot & Mussilini & the SS & Hirohito follow no koshering and Good-friday regimes. ---{BTW, Which always made wonder how Spain escaped much of WWII's damage}.
     
  3. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    1 - HILTER WAS NO A VEGETARIAN. ---I have heard this old claim, it is not true. Hitler's Doctors had put him on a strict diet ... to recover from an illness I do not recall right now. To say otherwise requires support otherwise it is a baseless claim.
    Propaganda that is repeated should be supported by the Source of such data in any proclamations

    2 - Christ was a vegetarian.

    3 - God is a vegetarian.

    Take the vegetarian thorn out of your own countries' Vital Statistics and Prison Systems before casting aspersions towards peace-makers who pose no threats.
     
  4. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    Typical lies.

    First, provide the specific quotes that state this. Did not Christ distribute FISH for people to eat? Or are you going to rewrite the Bible to say that "fish" doesn't mean "fish"?

    God doesn't eat.
     
  5. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 1:29 was superseded and rendered obsolete by Genesis 9:3-6

    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man."

    God does not say "do not eat meat". God says that one must not eat meat "that still has lifeblood in it". God does not demand an accounting for the lifeblood of mere food animals, but for HUMANS.

    What of it? They were not being punished for eating meat. They were being punished for being ungrateful to God.

    "The rabble with them began to crave other food, and again the Israelites started wailing and said, "If only we had meat to eat! We remember the fish we ate in Egypt at no cost—also the cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions and garlic. But now we have lost our appetite; we never see anything but this manna!" Numbers 11:4-6

    That quail was part of the punishment no more means that eating meat is evil than using water for the Flood means that drinking water is evil.

    Once again, you present something out of context.

    "The multitude of your sacrifices—
    what are they to me?" says the LORD.
    "I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
    of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
    I have no pleasure
    in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.


    When you come to appear before me,
    who has asked this of you,
    this trampling of my courts?


    Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
    Your incense is detestable to me.
    New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
    I cannot bear your evil assemblies.


    Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts
    my soul hates.
    They have become a burden to me;
    I am weary of bearing them.


    When you spread out your hands in prayer,
    I will hide my eyes from you;
    even if you offer many prayers,
    I will not listen.
    Your hands are full of blood;


    wash and make yourselves clean.
    Take your evil deeds
    out of my sight!
    Stop doing wrong,


    learn to do right!
    Seek justice,
    encourage the oppressed.
    Defend the cause of the fatherless,
    plead the case of the widow"--Isaiah 1:11-17


    It is plain that God is not objecting to animal sacrifice specifically. He objects to massive displays of public piety. He objects to many people chanting (y'know, something like "Hare Krishna", God would hate that sort of behavior). Does God say "stop eating meat"? No, He says "seek justice, encourage the oppressed, defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow". At no time is eating meat mentioned as something to be prohibited.


    So, what is your point? God is saying NOTHING AT ALL about eating meat.

    "Has not my hand made all these things,
    and so they came into being?"
    declares the LORD.
    "This is the one I esteem:
    he who is humble and contrite in spirit,
    and trembles at my word.
    But whoever sacrifices a bull
    is like one who kills a man,
    and whoever offers a lamb,
    like one who breaks a dog's neck;
    whoever makes a grain offering
    is like one who presents pig's blood,
    and whoever burns memorial incense,
    like one who worships an idol.
    They have chosen their own ways,
    and their souls delight in their abominations"--Isaiah 66:2-3


    What is being denounced? Does it say "whoever eats meat"? No. It talks about the offering of MATERIAL OBJECTS, and it doesn't matter what they are. Sacrificing a bull is evil. Offering grain is evil. Burning memorial incense is evil. All these acts of public piety are evil. What is good? Is it "vegetarianism"? No, it is being "humble and contrite in spirit", and trembling at God's word. Once again, you misrepresent Scripture.


    All that says is to trim and drain your meat. PROVE that it means "eat no meat". Go ahead, prove it.

    Likewise, explain away the following:

    "Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household. If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the door frames of the houses where they eat the lambs. That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast." Exodus 12:3-8

    Looks like God is commanding the people to eat meat. Why would God command the people to sin?

    The dictionary you cite is not a Rabbinical source. Likewise, it is obvious that you merely did a cut and paste from several fanatics' web sites regarding vegetarianism. If this is a prohibition of the killing of animals, why is the killing of animals something that Moses then sets down rules to do instead of prohibiting it, altogether?

    And, if eating meat/flesh was so hateful to God, why did He feed one of His prophets upon it?

    "Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah: 'Leave here, turn eastward and hide in the Kerith Ravine, east of the Jordan. You will drink from the brook, and I have ordered the ravens to feed you there.' So he did what the LORD had told him. He went to the Kerith Ravine, east of the Jordan, and stayed there. The ravens brought him bread and flesh in the morning and bread and flesh in the evening, and he drank from the brook." --I Kings 17:2-6

    Prove it. Give the direct proof. No circumstantial statements.

    "When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, 'Do you have anything here to eat?' They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence." --Luke 24:40-43

    How could a vegetarian eat a piece of broiled fish?

    Likewise, if killing animals for food was sinful, why did Christ use the killing of a fatted calf for a feast to illustrate the great joy at the return of a prodigal child (Luke 15:23)?


    Cute little bit of claptrap. You're saying then that the Apostles were broiling bits of Christ, which He then ate.

    And so what? I'll give some extra context to remedy your extreme and supreme dishonesty:

    "So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do." I Corinthians 8:4-8

    Does it say "meat is bad"? No, it says that food that has been offered to idols MIGHT be bad, if it is eaten in the presence of weak Christians who are still swayed by idols. Nothing at all to do with meat. Too bad you decided to be dishonest and misrepresent what Scripture says.
     
  6. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Wow, DB, thanks for your airing your opinion.

    With all humility, I presented the above inorder to finally "REPRESENT" the principles behind the assertion called, THE OPENING THREAD TOPIC, aka, "the BIBLE is clear on being VEGETARIAN".

    These are the verses that uphold this principle. It is not up for debate IMHO, but rather, it is presented to be marveled at.

    Dogbrains requests me to "First, provide the specific quotes that state this. [Post 44]"

    I have provided 6,000 year old references galore redux enmass ---take your time reviewing them, please. There's plenty more time ahead to take your time.
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    So what you are saying is in these specific scripture references the bible is clear...

    But on other specific scripture references the bible approves of the omnivore...but you aren't looking at those so they don't matter.

    I see....
     
  8. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Similarly, Other court laws forbide capitol punishment ---while the surviving Victim & familys must continue to pay tax surcharges for the privledge to maintain & visit the perpetraitor at parole hearings.

    WE are the stewards!

    Does your dog hunt for his dog-food?
    Or does it's Master do all the arrainging for the dog's subsistance?

    We provide for the liberties and falculties of all creatures great and small.

    One may queue up at the appropriate pantry as one feels most acclimated.

    All those against capitol punishment can gratefully pay higher taxes to perpetuate the comfort for all prison denisens, and thus feel righteous all you want ---while the caravan moves on.
     
  9. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    i guess we all have our own agenda that can blind us sometimes.

    the Bible is a big book and if you cant understand it in its entirety and in context then you could be missing the point entirely.
     
  10. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Yes that is what I am saying is there under the noses of Whom it may concern.

    I make no invention!

    It is an open book.

    Now I make the claim. Seek the truth by vetting the absolute truth your self Now while in the human form of life in this present birth.


    Hare Krishna on the run,
    Bhaktajan
     
  11. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    And the alleged "clarity" was that vegetarianism is mandated, not that it is permitted. You simply have been dishonest and are now backpedaling and dripping weasel words.

    You have merely indulged in the common response of the narrow-minded dogmatic.

    I reviewed your out-of-context prooftexting. Which is why I posted my in-context refutations. The plain truth is that your attempts to pervert and twist Scripture have been exposed and you can't admit it.
     
  12. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    Just like the Master of all has provided cattle, swine, poultry, and all those other tasty animals that we merely need to feed and harvest.

    So, you are now repudiating your militant, hardcore, intolerant anti-meat dogmatism?

    Therefore, you equate eating meat to refusing to kill people merely to satisfy atavistic, backward, and savage vengeance urges. Okay. I'll accept that.
     
  13. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Capital Punishment [when applicable] is the most compassionate action against those guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. For as per the 'laws of Karma' [mechanical-ism] & 'transmigration of the soul at death', Capital Punishment stops a person from accruing further 'Bad-karma'.

    "Savage vengeance" ---for savage atrocities is appropriate and just and requisite for Law & Order.


    I am saying that society's leaders must maintain both the good & the bad as the status quo.

    Remember the scriptural injunction, "Keep your friends close & keep your enemies closer".
     
  14. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    Give book, chapter, and verse on that. Of course, since it's not in Scripture, you're just exposing yourself as a liar, once again, as usual.
     
  15. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    If I tell you, then I'll have you addressed me as 'GodFather' or 'Don Bhaktajan'.
     
  16. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    Give book, chapter, and verse for your claim that "Scripture" has the "keep your enemies closer" statement.

    You have been shown out to be a bald-faced liar. That's all there is to it.
     
  17. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Do you mean "BOLD FONT liar"?

    ............................................................................
    Q. Who said, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." ?

    WikiAnswers - Who said 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer'


    A. Sun-tzu, Chinese general & military strategist (~400 BC).
    Sifu Sun-tzu wrote the famous book, 'The Art of War'.

    .............................................................................
    Don Michael Corlione also is famously know for this pronouncement.

    BTW, If it's good enough for West Point it's good enough for me.

    Also, may we gain some encouragement from what Brother Fredo said, "It ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!"

    And lastly, remember the wisdom of Stuart Smalley's affirmation, where he says:

    "I deserve good things. I am entitled to my share of happiness. I refuse to beat myself up. I am attractive person. I am fun to be with. And I'm gonna help people! Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggonit, people like me!"

    Now, may I ask for some tutorial compensation?
     
  18. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain Well-Known Member

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    Your surrender is accepted.
     
  19. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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  20. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    for quoting Fredo?

    Wanna take a boat ride?
     

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