Proving the existence of allah (swt)to an atheist

Discussion in 'Theology' started by future hope, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. future hope

    future hope Interfaith Forums

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    CONGRATULATING AN ATHEIST

    Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.

    My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists) I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God.


    LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD

    My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.

    If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.

    Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.

    (You may refer to my article, ‘Concept of God in Islam’, for more details)


    QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE

    The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.

    Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.

    If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Ah so interesting... I take it your mother and father were not Muslim? And you came across the 'correct' understanding of G!d on your own?

    If not... and you believe Allah to be correct...take a walk on the wild side...spend a year in Judaism, and in Christianity and Bahai...explore them to their deepest depths one at time, get an understanding of them and Hinduism, Bhuddism, you've got the time...and the knowledge and surely Allah would appreciate your travel.

    Future Hope...if you've come to discuss we welcome it, if you've come to preach...get yourself a Mosque, become an Imam.
     
  3. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

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    this is the mediaeval "proofs" approach, which has not been philosophically respectable or sustainable for a couple of hundred years. why not read "darwin's dangerous idea", by dan denett (unless it's banned in saudi of course) which explains precisely how darwinian evolution can account for all instances of mechanism; G!D need not be posited as a sort of intellectual skeleton key. this should not disturb your belief in G!D, of course - only your belief in people who think that they can construct a watertight case that stands up in anything but a kangaroo court.

    b'shalom

    bananabrain
     
  4. future hope

    future hope Interfaith Forums

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    First I joined to this site in order to serve Islam and spread the truth
    of Islam among those people who want to sit out from the truth and keep
    themselves blind by believing in wrong faith . Even-though he know about the contradiction of his believe , he is bigoted. Second , why do i have to travel through different religions ? since I found the great religion (ISLAM) with reasonable teaching ..
    Wil ,,what do not you understand about ISLAM? what is the contradiction you found it in islam?
     
  5. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

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    read the code of conduct:

    http://www.interfaith.org/forum/code-of-conduct-7047.html

    you are already in breach.

    apart from this, i don't see islam as "more true" than my religion, nor am i "blind", nor is my faith "wrong".

    right, like there aren't any contradictions in islam?

    how about the bit where you said science proves the existence of G!D. it doesn't. nor do the supposedly scientific bits in your "probability" thread make sense.

    this is not going to end up with anyone converting. we've all been "invited to islam" and, apart from our muslim participants, have declined. if you think that makes us "kaafir", then you're not going to last here very long. nobody is impressed by huge cut-and-paste essays.

    b'shalom

    bananabrain
     
  6. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    What exactly do you mean by truth? There is no point in me supporting or promoting worthless truth. If you tell me something and it is true, it better be worth something. It better be of benefit to the world, because if it isn't then I have no good reason to see it as important and finally I have to assume that it didn't come from God. What comes from God cannot be worthless.

    Blind? If what you mean by a "blind" person is a person who doesn't understand what is important and relevant to think and believe then I would like to say that I think your first post was written by someone who did not understand what was important and relevant to think and believe.

    Your first post implies that anyone who doesn't believe in God is an idiot. But why is that person an idiot for not believing in God?

    What do you know about people who choose not to believe in God? Why should people believe in God? I don't think you demonstrated that you understood these people. People have many different reasons for believing or disbelieving in God. If you don't understand these people then you cannot assume that they are "blind." What you say, think or believe about these people may not be correct.

    If you don't understand these people, I think it would be you who is blind.:)

    Wrong faith? What do you know about Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism or Wicca that is important and relevant? Until you have demonstrated understanding in what is important or relevant, you have not established these faiths as "wrong."



    If someone claimed that God wrote something because it could be used as a science textbook, I wouldn't automatically accept that it was written by God. The reason is that science isn't personal. Science is about how the universe works, not about the meaning of life. Science isn't about humanity. Science is about the universe. Science isn't spiritual or social.

    Even if God wrote a science textbook and sent it down to our earthly reality with instructions on how to use the knowledge it contained, what does that do for humanity?

    Hasn't religion always been about doing something valuable and memorable for humanity's sake? If God designed the universe then obviously it wouldn't take much effort to write a book about it. If God wanted us to believe that what a book said was his word because it contained concepts that were scientifically verifiable, what does that really say?

    When you put concepts in a book that are not personal, spiritual or have any social value and say that people must believe that everything else in that book came from God because there is science in that book, what does that say about this God who wrote the book? It makes a God like that seem manipulative.

    Although it is true that science can provide many benefits to the human race in the form of technology, there are no direct benefits that are social and spiritual. Humanity still has to rely on itself to create benefits that are social and spiritual. Science does not change who we are -- we are still just as human. Humans are still humans. Science does not make us better people.

    I believe God would want us to be better people and science will not do it. A religion authorised or inspired by God must therefore have teachings that inspire us to be better people.

    That is why I don't care if God put science in a book. An angel who also knows about God's designs for the universe could have written that. It is reasonable to think God might share the universe's design with angels. The devil/shaitan/shaytan would really want to get that information and he probably already has it.
     
  7. Dogbrain

    Dogbrain New Member

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    "Allah, the all-merciful" vs. "Allahu Akbar!" <<KABOOM!>>

    I'd say that this qualifies as a contradiction.

    You are free to now invoke the "No true Scotsman" fallacious argument to your little heart's desire.
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Namaste Future Hope,

    FYI you've got a thread you've tried to start twice...it is a copywrite violation to cut and paste from a site other than your own. Around here we want you to discuss your current thoughts on current topics not slam us with some stuff from another website.

    You found the great religion Islam and BB found Judaism, and I Christianity and other Buddhism or Hinduism or Taoism...these are our choices.

    If you've come to convert and continue, your time here will be short lived. If you wish others to come to your religion, it would only be fair if you explored another. Especially since you are trying to tell folks that most just follow their family's religion and it appears you are no different.

    Actually don't you live in a country where by law you can't practice another religion? Sort of limits your knowledge of the world does it not?

    We are an interfaith site...again if you wish to discuss religion without comparison and contrasting, head to our Islamic board and you can discuss the intracies of your sect...which by the way is???
     

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