Tao te Ching - part 1 chapter 2

Discussion in 'Tao' started by DrumR, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Greetings all.
    Having recently acquired two new translations of the TTC (Tao Teh Ching) to add to my library I shall endeavor to work on the second chapter this month, of February 2011, or as the Muse may strike. I am aware that the blinding speed with which I work may distress some but, take heart, I should complete my analysis of the whole of this tome in some 240-odd years before I start on the necessary revisions.:)
     
  2. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Continuing the Comparative Examination of the
    Tao Te Ching: Part 1; The Way, Chapter 2, Preview and Review
    My continuing Stumbles Concerning the Hap-Hazard Way.


    One of the greatest difficulties when speaking of the Way is the innate lack of the ability, brought about by language deficiencies, to explain concepts to others, in a meaningful manner, who are not experiencing a similar internal event. As was brought out in Chapter 1, many of the manifestations of Tao impinge upon the senses and could be seen as some sort of a common reference point. Unfortunately the above perspective appears to be opposite to the conventional Western wisdom and "reality."

    In the examination of Chapter 1 an "un-prepared and un-accepting mind" was alluded to. It is this "anti-prerequisite" that may be seen as one of the greatest of stumbling blocks to the advancement of one's intellectual study of the Tao. The second barrier being the lack of the implementation, or actualization, of the concepts presented in order to de-mystify the mystical on a personal and internal level.

    OK. So here we are.
    One doesn't know what one is supposed to be doing, nor the procedure or methodology of how one is to do it, and all of the words in whatever language will fail to tell one how.
    Is this not a Wonderful beginning?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2011
  3. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    62
  4. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  5. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    The musical prelude having ended (returns drumsticks, unplugs seattlegal's electric guitar) on a quiet note, one may see some connections in tides, tempo and moods.

    West coast versus East coast, fast versus slow, frenetic versus laid back. But is "versus," or contention, a descriptor most apt in this chapter's study?
     
  6. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    62
    Dang! Do we have to get political? :(

    I'd much rather laugh at the politicians
     
  7. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    62
    One thing we can glean from this: it's an interactive universe. :)
     
  8. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,924
    Likes Received:
    1
    OK, so...we're still at Nothing. Well, not really.

    Chapter 2 implies that everything has a wobble. Appreciating this allows the essential quality of humility which, in turn, allows for a flexible nobility. How does one propose the the primal paradox of weakened strength? What is conscious allowing? How does nature build without planning? And how do these functions apply to the human experience?

    (extracts old, coffee stained copy of the Tao from bottom shelf of book case)...

    ...if heaven were ever pure,
    it would likely rend.

    If earth were ever tranquil,
    it would likely quake.

    If the spirits were ever divine,
    they would likely dissipate.

    If the valley were ever full,
    it would likely run dry.

    If feudal lords and kings were ever noble and thereby exalted,
    they would likely fall.

    Therefore,
    It is necessary to be noble,
    and yet take humility as a basis.

    Chris
     
  9. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    WOW!
    All that from coffee stains. I may give up reading tea leaves!:D
     
  10. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Continuing the Comparative Examination of
    the Tao Te Ching: Part 1; The Way,
    Chapter 2, First verse group.
    My continuing Stumbles Concerning the Hap-Hazard Way.


    Then, when looking at the opening of chapter two, one is greeted by more cryptograms such as:
    Which, in a more refined aspect, may lead to:

    or it may also be looked upon in this manner.

    Which ever one chooses to examine they appear to fall short of
    the mark without the accompanying verse of:
    Many are those that would point to other, and later chapters of the Tao Teh Ching (TTC) or to other Taoist works, for confirmation
    of portions of the above verses. Yet my leanings are more towards the first chapter itself.

    One may perhaps recall that something similar, concerning the "Hidden and Manifest", appeared to be stated in the first chapter and that this introduction to the second chapter just may be, possibly even, have some semblance to a continuation of that first lesson. But then, on the off-claw, maybe it doesn't.
    Could it be that Beauty and Ugly are intertwined, that Evil and Good are but manifestations of the same Essence (Secret)?

    Should these manifold "what ifs" lead one to believe that there may be an other page to this stumbling dissertation, well...

    The odds are quite good in the favor of increased verbosity, but shall we not wait and see?


    -----
    References
    1> John C.H. Wu
    Tao Teh Ching - Shambhala Publications
    2> Thomas Cleary
    The Essential Tao - Harper Collins
    3> Hua-Ching Ni
    The Complete Works of Lao Tzu - Seven Star communications
    4> Lin Yutang
    The Wisdom of China and India - Modern library
    5> Whitter Bynner
    The Way of Life - Perigee/ Berkley Publishing Group
    6> Man-Jen Cheng
    Lao Tzu: "My words are very easy to understand." - North Atlantic Books
     
  11. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    62
    have you ever noticed how 'imperfections' are often referred to as "beauty marks?' Indeed, 'perfection' can be downright boring!

    Ever notice how we seem to be drawn to imperfections? Are we really looking for beauty?
     
  12. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    62
    This post from Cyberpi comes to mind, where he demonstrated that it is impossible to draw a perfect circle in this existence: ;)

    http://www.interfaith.org/forum/145190-post5.html

     
  13. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,924
    Likes Received:
    1
    We have to dispense with human projections of nobility and debauchery. Think about lions. Are they good or evil? Predatory nature, male domination, pack behavior- are these things evil or good when it comes to lions? Is a comet destroying the earth evil? Beyond philosophy and morality is the Way. It is as much defined by what isn't as what is. Sometimes what isn't defines what is, as in the "Valley Spirit."

    The Tao is written for rulers. In this sense it is quite Machiavellian. One one hand there is the Way, but on the other is the subjugation of the People by "natural" means. Never lose sight of this.

    Chris
     
  14. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    62
    Well, if you want to call Libertarianism "machiavellian." The Tao echews the idea of personal gain for leaders, which is a hallmark of machiavellianism.
     
  15. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Continuing the Comparative Examination of
    the Tao Te Ching: Part 1; The Way,
    Chapter 2, Second group of versus.
    My continuing Stumbles Concerning the Hap-Hazard Way.

     
  16. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    The Tao is the Way.
    The Te is the Virtue (of "The Way" or Tao).
    The latter chapters, aka "Te" address virtuous leadership and perhaps rule.

    Machiavelli's work "The Prince (Il Principe) addresses leadership and the maintenance of power, by both "Good" and nefarious means. this work of machiavelli received some "Bad Press" in its time yet his main detractors were mainly the Monarchies and their minions.

    Few of the world renowned Despots are know to have had, and relied upon, a copy of the Tao Te Ching to inflict their rule, where as Machiavelli's work is a known factor with a number of those Despots.

    Additionally, the particular translation of "The Prince" may slant the work towards imposing one's rule upon others or more towards being a leader of The People.
     
  17. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    This extract appears to be from the Victor H. Mair translation of the Tao Te Ching.
    At the moment my Mair translation is atop a pile of Bynner, Cleary, and Yutang translations with a Blakney and Henricks translation resting on top of it. this pile is next to another pile of various translations of the Tao Te Ching on my desk.:)

    I find the Victor H. Mair translation to have a Confucian overtone in most of its renderings and believe that this translation may be of some use for the study of Complete Reality School of Taoism which incorporates the teachings of Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  18. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Maybe we can convince Chang Tzu to do a stand up routine in the Bamboo Tea Room.;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  19. DrumR

    DrumR New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank you for the favor of a reply, seattlegal.
    I hope that the rapidity of this response, less than a 12 month turn around, did not catch one unawares nor disrupt one's calm and meditative undertakings.;)

    I have considered that one might have the right of it and that a newly sharpened and polished drill bit may very well be used as a "beautiful" example of how one might arrive at the conclusion that:
    :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011

Share This Page