Is there a difference between Pre-Exilic Messiah and Post Exilic Messiah?

donnann

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are you saying jesus or moses one of alien stuff ?

GOD is father of the heavenly kingdom and earthly. That means the whole universe and all its life and all its planets and stars ect.
 

Ben Masada

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I posted the same question on another thread but haven't heard back from anyone. I suppose this question is worth making a separate post anyhow.

I have been aware of Zoroaster's influence on the Abrahamic religions on the whole for quite some time now, but when it comes down to it-it would appear that most authors do not go into detail on the exactitudes of the matter and so I have taken it upon myself to sort them out.

On another post Bob X mentioned that in regards to receiving the designation Messiah "king (David, Solomon, etc.) and every priest (Aaron, Zadok, etc.) underwent this ritual to assume office."

However Peter Clark the author of Zoroastrianism: An Introduction to an Ancient Faith mentions that it isn't until the Book of Daniel that the Jews begin to develop the belief in messiah-type figures. What he doesn't mention is that Cyrus the Great was acknowledged as a Messiah in Isaiah which appears before Daniel in sequence (though I guess it may have been written afterwords?) and if I understand correctly the passage that mentions Cyrus in Isaiah 45 is actually a prophetic in that it refers to a "future deliverer." And it is this concept of a future deliverer that is said to be a Zoroastrian influence upon the Jews.

So now I'm wondering is what sets these pre-Exilic Messiahs apart from the Post-Exilic Messiahs of the Hebrew Bible? And why did Clark not give Cyrus as an example of one of these messiah-type figures?


With regards to influence of a religion on another, Zoroastrianism was rather influenced by the Abrahamic religion than this by Zoroastrianism, considering that Zoroastrianism was founded in Persia in the year 600 BCE and the Abrahamic religion reports to the year 1900 BCE.

And for the Messiah, the etimology in Hebrew means "anointed." There are several aspects of the Messiah. Anointed as king, priest, prophet, and anointed to be simply a Messianic leader. Moses was a Messianic leader as he guided Israel back to the Land of Canaan, Joshua as he completed the work of Moses, Cyrus for having proclaimed the end of the exile in Babylon and the return of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel and to rebuild the Temple, and last but not least, Herzl, who inspired Israel with love for Zion. But the Messiah per se, is the People of Israel. So, I believe.

I don't see any kind of prediction in Isaiah 45 of a future Messianic leader beside Cyrus himself, in whom the prophecy got fulfilled when he proclaimed the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel. Your reference to a pre and post exilic Messiah, is nothing but a reference to Israel before and after exile, when the Messiah was cut off from the land of the living, which is the Land of Israel and graves were assined to us among the Gentiles, which is exile. (Isa. 53:8,9) Then, at the end of the exile, the Messiah returns to the Land of Israel, according to Ezekiel 37:12.
Ben
 

iBrian

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With regards to influence of a religion on another, Zoroastrianism was rather influenced by the Abrahamic religion than this by Zoroastrianism, considering that Zoroastrianism was founded in Persia in the year 600 BCE and the Abrahamic religion reports to the year 1900 BCE.

Hmm, my sources suggest at least 1200 BC for Zoroastrianism, but no doubt both religious groups were developing for some time.

After all, it's been long claimed that the Jewish faith was significantly influenced by Persian beliefs during the captivity in Babylon - though it depends where on the academic fence you sit on as to what degree.

Certainly even the Old Testament makes clear that Judaism was a developing belief system, from Abraham to Moses to David.
 

Ben Masada

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Hmm, my sources suggest at least 1200 BC for Zoroastrianism, but no doubt both religious groups were developing for some time.

After all, it's been long claimed that the Jewish faith was significantly influenced by Persian beliefs during the captivity in Babylon - though it depends where on the academic fence you sit on as to what degree.

Certainly even the Old Testament makes clear that Judaism was a developing belief system, from Abraham to Moses to David.


You are probably right as far as the exile in Babylon is concerned. The Jews brought back a lot of Babylonian influences in terms of midrashim. Even some of them were included by Ezra into the Torah, as we have in Genesis 6:1-4 as a prelude to the Biblical Flood, whose text starts with verse 5 of that chapter.
Ben
 

bananabrain

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Even some of them were included by Ezra into the Torah, as we have in Genesis 6:1-4 as a prelude to the Biblical Flood, whose text starts with verse 5 of that chapter.
based on what? verses 1-4 provide part of the lead-up to the flood, there's no lack of context, it's all about the wickedness of society. and from that to "ezra did it" is a ridiculous leap.

b'shalom

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