God & god - "Know ye not that ye are gods?"

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Brad Watson Miami, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. Brad Watson Miami

    Brad Watson Miami Interfaith Forums

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    The use of the Capital G in 'God' defines it as "The One, The Creator, the Supreme Being, Yehowah (YHWH), Allah, etc." The use of the small case g in 'god' defines it as "one deity in a pantheon of deities", plural: 'gods'.


    Jesus son of Joseph stated, "Know ye not that ye are gods?" This famous quote is seemingly never addressed in sermons or in print. Let's address it now! Comments?
     
  2. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    We are Gods-in-the-Becoming, just as was the Being that communicated to and through Moses (et al). Difference?

    MANY, many cycles of evolution (via rebirth) occur, which propel mankind well beyond the Human Kingdom, through the 5th Kingdom (of Souls, of God, aka Heaven). Eventually, SOME men experience the stage of a Planetary Lord, and THIS is the stage of spiritual evolution of the `God' Who spoke via Moses, Jesus, etc.

    We, also, shall one day pass through that stage, although it is so far into our future that it cannot be fathomed. Nor can any of us realize what that stage of evolution may be like ... but this does not mean we cannot Aspire, and TRY! ;)

    There's my 2 cents.
     
  3. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    It is because you consider it something for the future that it is not herenow.

    God is always herenow, because only in the present is there life - mind wants to go between past and future, but neither are existential. Let go into the now and you will know the truth of what you say: you are God.
     
  4. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    i must admit that i dont understand the context on this quote, perhaps understand the context is the key to understanding what Jesus was talking about.
     
  5. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    here is a bit more of it to get a feel for the context

     
  6. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    I think what Jesus was trying to get us to see is that the Divine Potential dwells within each of us. The audience he was addressing had clearly forgotten this Truth.

    Christ asked, Why are you penalizing me for doing God's Work? And if the implication is, " ... because clearly, YE are not doing it!" - then I don't think he meant to be a smartass about it. It was an opportunity to remind us of our Spiritual Calling, as well as a chance to defend himself for the Good Work which he was doing, because SENT to do.

    Each of us has the Christ Potential. FEW have demonstrated or manifested this to its FULLEST (vide Ephesians 4:13). When you can show that YOU have fulfilled what you are called to do, FULLY, you will become as the reference in Revelation 3:12 ... and "go out no more."

    Yes, each of us CAN be Christ. It just takes awhile ... and certainly Lunitik, as they say, if wishes were horses ... ;)
     
  7. Brad Watson Miami

    Brad Watson Miami Interfaith Forums

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    "We are gods-in-the-becoming"


    Andrew X,

    A BIG part of the op was a grammar lesson on the use of 'God' and 'gods', yet you incorrectly used "Gods". There is no "Gods" in the English language. You should have used "gods-in-the-Becoming".

    Regarding the rest of your post, are those exclusively your own conclusions? What evidence do you have?
     
  8. Brad Watson Miami

    Brad Watson Miami Interfaith Forums

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    Lunitik,

    Just because our physicallity cannot escape 'here-and-now' does not mean that the there-and-then does not exist. Our existence is both in the here-and-now (obvious) and in the there-and-then (not so obvious).

    And "you are God" is grammatically and philosophically incorrect! "You are a god" can be correct if someone is exhibitihg godlike attributes.


    Non-coincidental synchronic reaction: 1/8/12 14:47 "What a move by Bradshaw!" Giants vs. Falcons on FOX
     
  9. Princely

    Princely Interfaith Forums

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    Jesus is a son of man just as those who do the will of God are. The son of man is the son of God because He does Gods will.The scripture Jesus quoted " I said you are gods, all of you are sons of the most High",comes from when God was talking through a prophet in the book of Psalms 82:6. He is addressing the house of Israel who were suppose to spread the word of the Lord but did not.After all didn' the Lord say Israel was His son. He said "Israel is my son my first born, let my son go so he can serve me.The key word there is serve.

    Example;


    "Truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."
    "Truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. Flesh makes flesh, spirit makes spirit. Do not be surprised that I tell you, you must all be born from above.
    The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

    I do nothing on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I’m not seeking my own will but the will of the one who sent me.

    I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.
    Everything that the Lord gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me,
    because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
    And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should lose nothing of what he gave me, but that I should raise it on the last day.
    For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him possesses eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day.
    No one can come to me unless the Lord who sent me draws him, and I will raise him on the last day.
    It is written in the prophets: They shall all be taught by God. Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me.
    Not that anyone has seen God only the one who is from God has seen the Lord.
    Truly I say to you, whoever believes possesses eternal life.

    When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I only say what the Lord has taught me.
    For the one who sent me is with me. He has not deserted me, because I always do what pleases him.

    I am son of man. I am the way the truth and the life. Jesus and the Father sent me. We are One. Follow the son of man and proclaim the word of the Lord.
     
  10. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

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    Please forgive the length


    I agree, but what are the overall implications? The following may seem to be radical, but bear with me and at least consider the implications. I need to tell one story in order to convey my understanding. Satan is a term used to identify an adversary. Take the account of the fall of man for example: The serpent (who became the voice of opposition) was already in the garden, yet all things were declared very good. It wasn't until Eve was tempted and deceived that the serpent became an adversary. If Satan was actually cast to the earth prior to the fall, then God would not have declared all things very good as Satan would have already been a fallen angel.


    Everything God made was very good in the beginning, so Adam and Eve already knew good. The forbidden tree was good, the serpent (our desires and thoughts) was good, and everything that God had made was good prior to one act of disobedience. The serpent is simply mankind's inner voice, our innermost self seeking desires, which aren't bad until they begin to lead us to oppose what God desires for us. Our thoughts and our desires are often tempting, seducing, and alluring when entertained. They are able to ever so subtly lead us to disobey God. Satan is the inner voice of opposition and doubt, yet Satan can also be other human beings as in the case of Job. Satan simply means adversary.


    The serpent (our inner voice of opposition) was cursed to consume the dust of the ground for the rest of his days after Adam and Eve disobeyed God. We are made from the dust of the ground, thus it was when Satan was cast to the earth that Satan (the serpent) was cursed to consume humanity, whereby Adam and Eve became Satan's angels (children of disobedience and adversaries to God).


    "And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world— he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."


    They were cast down with Satan; they fell from paradise (heaven) because they yielded to their doubts, they yielded to our inner most desires, they yielded to self and forsake God's statutes. Adam and Eve had became disobedient children of the devil, they had forsake God's statutes and yielded to self desire, thus lost their innocence in the process.


    "I have said, Ye are gods (Elohim); and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."


    "What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (Elohim) and hast crowned him with glory and honour."



    We are elohim (gods/angels) fallen from heaven (paradise). Once obedient children of God (Elohim) now disobedient children of Satan (that which opposes God's will for us/adversary). The good news is that Jesus came to show us the way home, the way back to paradise (heaven). Jesus embodied the fullness of the Godhead. In other words, Jesus was born part of God's eternal family unit. Our Father is spirit (Breath of life) and the Holy Spirit is love (The essence of God). Those born again of the Holy spirit are eternal children of God, just as Jesus was a Son of God.


    Adam was an immortal Son of God prior to falling, but he became, like all who came after, mortal sons of men (children of disobedience), which is why Jesus says we must be born again of the Holy Spirit (love) in order for us to become a part of the God's eternal Family again.


    "The wages of sin are death" We are gods (angels/children) of the most high, who fell from heaven (paradise) by our disobedience. "I have said, Ye are gods (Elohim); and all of you are children of the most High. We are children of the most high who fell from paradise, and in order to regain our immortality, we must once again yield to God (who is life and love).
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    And were there capitols used in the bible?

    Were they two different words, to different references in the original language.

    If you care to look, this has been debated repeatedly here on this site.

    Your point of G!d vs. gods reminds me of our atheist friends who proclaim, "Why we only believe in ONE less G!d than you!"
     
  12. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    If you have eyes to see, there and then is simply part of here and now.

    I am not concerned with what is grammatically or philosophically correct, these are mind exercises, I am not speaking in such limited terms. If you realize what I say, there are certainly Godly attributes, but that is not something important.
     
  13. sobon50

    sobon50 New Member

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    According to this new site... we may make up God.

    thesomervillehypothesis.com

    David
     
  14. Tobyvb

    Tobyvb New Member

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    We are all God, and we are gods in our individual right. You want to obtain your god status? Then be an agent for God, and do right on yourself and others. You have to be capable of seeing God with out freaking out. The truth doesn't need to be so scary or weird. If you know it is truth then adore it.
     
  15. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    Re: "We are gods-in-the-becoming"

    I'm certain Andrew will have a better reply, but I just wanted to bring up the idea that what you are implying (both God and gods) has absolutely no evidence for their existence either, so for arguments sake and in order to have this discussion, we should agree that there are gods or a God to talk about.

    I am in agreement with Andrew that we all have the ability to become a God . . . apotheosis is an important principle in Luciferianism.
     
  16. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    Clarification:

    God, in the singular, with a capital letter ... cannot be described or openly discussed, unless we agree about some basics. Otherwise, you're just pulling your descriptions or understanding out of context, or applying a context that may not suit everyone else. For example, since I am a hylozoist, I would explain God as the Cosmic Entity, "in Whom WE live and move and have OUR Being." In short, you CANNOT remove God from the equation.

    One way that this has been described is that the entire Cosmos is the meditation of God. If, even for a microsecond, God were to cease or become distracted in this Great Meditation ... every single atom of Cosmos would suddenly disappear - returning to the root matter of which everything is composed. Clearly, anthropomorphic projections onto this conception of God are not necessary for God's benefit, or for those of us who believe that God is formless (Transcendent). This is the Nirguna Brahman of Hinduism. If you find it easier to picture God then surely the projection does no great harm ... unless you confuse the picture in your mind with the reality.

    This means that God is not Jesus, not Buddha, not Mohammed, not Sri Krishna; not even the Flying Spaghetti Monster. As the Tao of Pooh puts it, God just IS. That's all that can be said, although some folks LOVE to shove things in God's mouth, all day long, all life long, never realizing what God is really and already SPEAKING. God, the Verbum, the VERSE OF ONE [Uni-Verse] is all around you, within you, without you ... and equally present across the Galaxy as within Christ Jesus, or me, or your neighbor, etc. And failure to recognize this means that your tower of Babylon will never actually reach Heaven; long before, it will topple and return to the sand, as this is a poor foundation ... and a house of cards the improper dwelling-place for the man who truly wishes to enshrine the Divine, enthroning God within the Heart.

    How can we do the latter? By recognizing that a good description of our relationship to the Hylozoistic Cosmos is that we are ALL gods, in terms of our Divine Potential. This does not mean we are waiting for God, or some kind of priest, or even a Holy and Enlightened man (Christ, the Buddha, Krishna, etc.) to come and confer something upon us. We do not need any of these for the recognition that God already dwells within us. The man who cannot see this, cannot see himself, let alone God. He has much left to learn about the world we live in, for his insight cannot even cross the gulf of lower mind ... he is stuck where "the mind is the great SLAYER of the Real," and any time he tries to fathom that we are all already gods there will be a mental block - not just UNCARVED, but altogether insurmountable & impassable.

    Until he understands the Masonic symbolism, he cannot & will not recognize his own ABILITY and Responsibility [a Sacred Duty: Dharma, an obligation] to carve this uncarved block. As the metaphor goes, ALL PEOPLE are future Master Masons, for ALL people have God within, whether you want to spell it with a little `g' [suggesting our Potential], a big `G' [recognizing the Potential on its own level, Transcendent, anthropomorphized or otherwise] or pluralized.

    The reason it makes perfect sense to say we are ALL GODS, leaving case aside altogether, is that any person who has even for a moment come into contact with his or her own Father in Heaven KNOWS the Unity of God ... and if you have not bungled up the experience with LOWER MIND (little ego, the personality) you also realize that God does not want you to continue to divide, to isolate others or to emphasize our differences. God seeks just the opposite, precisely the reverse. God is not offended when you say, "The Sons of men are ONE, and I am One with them."

    In fact, these words begin a Unification Mantram that is sounded to call ALL PEOPLE together and to affirm our Co-Participation in God's undying Creation. There are no member's only jackets required to get into this club ... for it is no club at all, even though religions love to become exclusive (separative) and pretend to have a line on God. Theirs is not God, for they have become sidetracked with Hero worship, and they know not their Savior. While this seems to apply almost universally in this day & age, there are millions of men & women around the world who already know that what I have said is true, and who work ceaselessly to help our planet through the current unreset & confusion.

    Such people may be discouraged by the ignorance and violence that is perpetrated in the name of religion, but the shame here is that the *Good* within is not properly acknowledged, encouraged and drawn out. While we each must become responsible for our spiritual growth as we approach the later stages of Self-Becoming (on this planet), it is equally true that for a long time (many thousands of lives) we are as little Christs, or very much embryonic in terms of the Divinity within becoming outwardly active.

    The student of the Wisdom Tradition knows that this is true, and understands why. Babies are not born taking care of themselves; only gradually do we mature, becoming capable of looking after ourselves, yet even then we still need supervision and guidance ... until we are ADULTS. I doubt quite seriously that many people reading this will have EVER met a mature spiritual being, even though plenty will be able to quote from Scripture, or REPEAT the religious stories that you have grown up with.

    Perhaps some DO KNOW, because you can sense, experience or otherwise bear Witness to the Christ - or God - that is within. You KNOW you have Buddha Nature, and not because some stupid book composed by a bunch of crusty old, power-hungry white guys, TELLS YOU SO. That is not how or why "Jesus loves you." Those who know about Buddha Nature, REALLY don't need to be patronized and jabbered to by an empty-headed theologian, or by anyone else standing around preaching stuff they neither practice nor e'en begin to understand.

    On that note, *I'm* shutting up. I am listener, learner and Aspirant to the Mysteries, sometimes practioner of the Higher Way, other times a poor example indeed ... but one thing I am NOT is mistaken about what I share. I do like to ramble on, jabbering in my own way, often uncertain about where my posts will end up. This does not change, however, the fact that I know what I'm talking about. I would respect differences, yet I will point out again: If you know square one about God, you know that it is Cooperation and Unity we should be thinking about, not their opposite. We should be seeking to perfect the Paramitas, studying the Perfection of Wisdom, not pretending that we have a clue about things well beyond our own, direct experiences.

    And if you cannot recognize or demonstrate these qualities?
    Ah, then you need to go back to Square ... ONE. ;)
    {I assure you, that's where I'm standing!}

    Namaskar
     
  17. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Brava Andrew! Look for that of G!d Within with the help of The Light Within.
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    As a matter of passing interest, should anyone be wondering what Jesus meant when he referred to the Hebrew Scriptures in John 10:34, one has to look at the text in context.

    "The Jews therefore came round about him, and said to him: How long dost thou hold our souls in suspense? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly." (v25).

    He tells them, plainly enough it would seem, and they decide to stone Him for blasphemy (v26-33).

    (Just a point in passing: Many claim Jesus never declared his divinity — and yet here and elsewhere the text is quite clear that His audience took Him to be doing just that.)

    Simply reading the text before and after the quote reveals the sarcasm with which He addresses those who challenge Him — if one thing is certain in Scripture, it's that Jesus of Nazareth gives short shrift to the hypocrite.

    "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. They sought therefore to take him; and he escaped out of their hands" (v37-39).

    It is the very fact that they are not gods that not only can they not see Him, they cannot see the works either — John never uses the word 'miracle' but 'sign', and this is the telling point — they cannot read the signs.

    The reference echoes the bitter words of the Psalmist:
    "I have said: You are gods and all of you the sons of the most High.
    But you like men shall die: and shall fall like one of the princes."

    What deifies man, in the Abrahamic Tradition, is the Indwelling of God: the shekinah of Judaism, the Holy Spirit of Christianity, the baraka of Islam. Anything else is ego.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  19. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    You know the giving of a stone really refers to knowledge not actually picking up a rock and hitting someone with it and hurting them. Any true holy man knows this. So when reading HOLY scriptures you have to realize this is what it means. If JESUS was wrong about some things those with the ancient knowledge would have given him the correct knowledge hence the true meaning of stoning. Remember the bible is HOLY and you must reason it with a HOLY mind.
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    How can the Logos of God be wrong about anything?

    Then 'those' would fall into the same bracket as those Jesus contends with in the text — those who think they know better.

    Be careful, for the Bible is indeed holy, but not inerrant.

    To reason with a holy mind means to reason with the mind of Christ (cf 1 Corinthians 2:16), not according to one's own mind. It means be open to the text, not be closed to it.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
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