Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Ben Masada, Jan 31, 2012.
I know people die all time, but are people murdered all time by the millions at a time?
Yep, Ben, Hillel's earlier statement "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn" is really much clearer.
I dislike the Golden Rule because few have managed to say it positively, always it relies on what not to do. Allow me to attempt something a little more positive:
Grow love in yourself and share it abundantly.
What do the numbers matter? Murdering one is akin to killing all.
We need only look at the initial capture of Israel to see Jews are not against it at all, and to be perfectly blunt, I think Hitler may have been karma for the returning to the holy place.
Do not misunderstand me, I am not saying it was a good thing, I am simply suggesting there was a certain justice in it. How many innocent people were killed by the Jews in the Bible, in the very Holy Scripture of the religion? Other than your scripture, you had no case for the land at all.
It is hardly surprising that still today the Abrahamic world is constantly waring, war seems to be the most holy activity!
A couple of rather glaring historical inaccuracies. There was no "initial capture of Israel"... rather the U.N. partitioned the Palestinian Mandate (like the Sudan). Was it right or wrong? I do not really think it is relevant. Second, the Partition was 1949... about 4 years after Hilter was dead.
Does the number matter? It may not to you but for most, they do.
The Indic-Aryan-Chinese world is also mainly constantly at war. Oh, and Africa and South America was well. I believe war is a human failing, not one of merely the Abrahamic world.
if you have a relevant point to make then please make it.
That's the same as not to do to others what we would not like they did to us.
Love is an emotion and emotions cannot be dictated upon. Therefore, one can neither love another as he loves himself nor expect to be loved by someone he is willing to love.
How did you expect us to behave before several armies pushing us into the sea? To stay lamb-like and let them shed our blood? I didn't think so. And about the taking over of Canaan, the Israelites were not alone. That was a time of several migrations of peoples in the search of a place to settle down.
In our case, war is rather a matter of survival. We fight only to defend ourselves. Hence the Talmud slogan: If they come to kill you, kill them first.
Yes, polgroms, blood libels, Crusades, Inquisition, Holocaust... I hope now we can say "never again." Am Israel hi.
ok so a root of bitterness defiles many
how do you feel about all the tribes that these jews wiped out according to the old testament ?
or the current jewish occupation of palestine and brutal oppression of the Palestinian people ?
When the Israelites took over Canaan, it was the trend of the time. The Israelites were not alone. Several migrations were in the search of land to settle themselves in. And it was a custom of all migrations to exterminate local populations to prevent further insurrections and endless wars.
With regard to the "Palestinians" they were the occupiers; not us. The Land of Israel was our land for about 4000 years. We never left it of our own freewill. We were forced into exile. Then, in the 8th Century ACE, hords of Arabs invaded the Half Crescent and occupied the Land of Israel.
Check History, there was never a country called Palestine. The place had become always a province of this or that empire starting with the Romans. Besides, as we returned to our land, we paid for almost all of it by bying it from local occupiers. BTW, we did not have to; and we even offered them the chance to coexist with us. We even agreed with the partition according to the British white paper, but they refused. They wanted us back in exile, as they opened a war of agreesion with the intent to push us into the sea. They lost. And it was during this war of agression that we could add more of our land, which we had not bought.
We are still willing even to this very day to live together or alongside each other, but the only thing they agree with is for us to leave the Middle East. I would like to see America with that accommodating spirit if the Mexicans ever decided to come for Texas and California that once belonged to them and they were never compensated for their loss. But of course, this idea is not of any one's interest. America is not Jewish.
You do not understand the so called golden rule because you fail to do what is right and just. No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born from above.
Perfect is what God says is perfect which you do not understand because you fail to serve the Lord and walk in the light.
No the son/servant cannot sin in the eyes of God because the Lord sees them as perfect. It is the truth that sets the servant free, the word of God.
You misunderstand the meaning of that statement for the same reason as the others.
Again, God will not let you understand because you refuse His correction and wisdom.
If only you recognized Gods gift and who it is who's speaking to you ,you would ask him and he would give you living water.
Anyone who drinks the water I give him will never become thirsty, the water I give him will be like a fountain inside him rising up to provide eternal life.
Anyone who refuses to honor the son refuses to honor the Father who sent him.
The son of man will come at a time you least expect. Stay awake or you won't know when your Lord has come.
yes i am well aware, unfortunately you are not however this is the way of empire, the rulers allways re-write history.
Israel is basically a fascist aparteid state, where the ruling race the jews brutally opress the native people the palestinians, just look at the facts and see who's dieing.
so you see you have no moral high ground to stand upon only the stench of brutal occupation and opression.
NCOT, the state of Israel is the moral responsibility of the whole damn world. The Empire f'ed it up with promising the land to both Jew and Arab. The US f'ed it up by pushing for a partition. The UN f'ed it up by providing a partitionthat, like Inda, could never work. The neighboring "brotherly" Arab states f'ed it up by promising that if the Palestineans left, they would make it Judenfrei and keeping the survivors in prison camps (while Israel resettled any Sephardic Jews who wished to come). The people of Israel f'ed it up by electing murferes like Sharon and Bebe.
There is more than enough blame to go around. Like India, the state of Israel has its problems, but so do the alternatives (Pakistan, Egypt, and Lebanon).
Thank you, Ben. I didn't realize that. I assumed the campaign, or, depending upon one's point of view, holy war, against the Canaanites was complete and that not only their men but also their women, children, cattle, pit-bulls, poodles and gold fish had been decimated in the process. Maybe I was confusing them with the Jebusites or some such clan. Anyway, I do enjoy and benefit from our Bible studies and discussions, even if I am (usually) sitting on the opposite side of the aisle and am lately not able to participate much. Carry on, mate.
The golden rule is the height of arrogance...
Do unto others as you would have done unto you...
Who are you to assume that whatever you like to have done unto you others would as well???
How about, 'Do unto others as they would have done unto them....or leave them alone and move on.'
I agree with you that the options you have presented above, are indeed the height of arrogance; but the formula I provided you with, I mean, authored by Hillel, is the height of common sense and magnanimity. Not to do unto onthers what we would not like they did unto us. Think! It's quite different from the options you have suggested above.
Brava, right there with "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind", "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel", "loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world--and never will," and, my favorite "if Christ were here there is one thing he would not be--a Christian".
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