I am an Israeli and have largely contributed for the grandeur of our IDF.
I see. Have you ever stepped outside Israel to see what Christianity and Islam were really like outside of Israel? You may find that the boundaries of religion are not that solid.
You are a Christian, aren't you? A Christian, by definition, is the one who believes that Jesus was Christ. Christ means Messiah in Greek. If you are a Christian, you are contradicting yourself. Sorry to remind you of this.
That's not my definition and as far as I am concerned there was never an official, divinely sanctioned definition of "Christianity." The only organisation that had any such authority to define Christianity was the Jerusalem Church, which was destroyed along with Jerusalem before any official definition of Christianity was ever made known to the world. The only official act I am aware of that they passed was the Apostolic Decree, equivalent to the Seven Noahide Laws. After that, nothing!!
The Jerusalem Church was to Christianity what the Sanhedrin was to Judaism -- an organisation that had the authority to define Christianity just like the Sanhedrin passed rulings binding on all Jews. Without their official seal, I don't have to accept anyone else's definition of Christianity.
Just because the Gospels and Epistles proclaim it, doesn't mean it's important or relevant today. It may have been important for people to proclaim Jesus as messiah 2,000 years ago when the movement was fresh and young, but to do so now when we don't even understand why is ridiculous. Today's Christians have no authority to decide whether Jesus was messiah or not because they are not taught the Torah. The Jerusalem Church knew the Torah. We do not. This is why. Only people who know the Torah can choose their messiah.
Well, I am all ears to discuss my collective view of the Messiah. What's the question?
As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if the messiah was individual or collective. I still see the same problem with foreign meddling in Israel's politics which will ultimately lead to the much-anticipated great apocalyptical war during which the "false messiah" is likely to appear.
How can the dead establish a messianic kingdom? Read Eccles. 9:5:6.
Why do you keep bringing Jesus back into this?
That is not why I responded to radarmark's post about Israeli politics. You may or may not have heard of the so-called "Illuminati Conspiracy." If not, let me describe it briefly to you. The Illuminati Conspiracy is a network of people who conspire to manipulate world events. Many of them are obsessed with Israel (most likely for religious reasons) and meddle in its politics. Those who do probably believe that the modern state of Israel is fulfilling many biblical prophecies and this encourages them to meddle. They want to be part of the messianic transition.
You might find this video interesting:
The temple of Solomon, the secret is out. Must watch !!!!! - YouTube
It's about how Jewish mystical/kabbalistic symbols are being stolen by the Illuminatis. These "Illuminatis" are expecting a messiah too. They are expecting a messiah to come out of Israel. By the time their messiah emerges, he may be barely indistinguishable from your own. A lot of what these Illuminatis do involves concepts borrowed from Jewish mysticism.
There are two things Illuminatis prey on: violent urges and fear. Zionism involves violence and the more involved you become with this culture of violence, the harder it will be to tell the false messiah from the real one. That's going to be particularly important if the messiah is supposed to ensure eternal peace for all Jews. That's one of the requirements of a messiah isn't it? Watch out if he/they fail(s) that one. Israel will keep fighting one war after another and there may never be peace.
That's the major problem. None of those religions: Christianity and Islam has any roots in Judaism. They rose as a religion of their own. And both have adopted the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.
Really? Don't Christians have the Tanakh as part of their written tradition? Does that not mean Christians have been spreading knowledge about the Jewish people for 2,000 years? Doesn't Islam contain concepts similar to Judaism? Shariah, which means "pathway to be followed" is similar to halakha which means "way of walking." Halal (meaning "lawful") is similar to kosher (meaning "fit" or "suitable"). Salaam is the same as shalom -- meaning peace. Dhimmi (non-Muslim) is similar to Gentile/Noahide (non-Jew). There are differences between how Judaism and Islam work, but at first glance Islam seems like Judaism translated from Hebrew into Arabic.
Would it satisfy you if I said that Christianity and Islam both each have half of Judaism? Christianity propagates the written tradition (Tanakh). Islam propagates aspects of the Jewish law system. They just lack your Oral Torah/rabbinical tradition.
Plagiarism implies forgery or vandalism of Judaism by Christianity or Islam.
I acknowledge the plagiarism, forgery and vandalism, but what are you going to do about it? Don't you have a suggestion on how Christians and Muslims can properly respect Judaism? If you don't offer suggestions, it's just going to keep happening.
My position is this. Christianity and Islam are both based on a faulty premise. The NT and Quran both contain polemic against the earlier traditions. For much of the last 2,000 and 1,400 years, Christianity and Islam claimed to be independent of the earlier traditions. The faulty premise is in the argument used to justify replacement of earlier traditions. The argument is inconsistent with the history of the earlier tradition.
Christianity fails to fully appreciate Jewish rabbinical tradition and how many of Jesus' teachings came from that tradition. The idea that the Gospel had replaced the Law is a misunderstanding of the dispute between Beit Hillel and Beit Shammai. Islam fails to understand that Christianity was about breaking down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile and that this is why Hellenism is such a big influence in Christianity.
The NT and Quran therefore, cannot be properly understood without rabbinical tradition (just like the Tanakh). When this is understood, Christianity and Islam can no longer claim independence. When the faulty premises are acknowledged and claims of independence are dropped, replacement theology is refuted.
Rabbinical tradition then becomes the unifying tradition. Jews will have the Tanakh as written tradition, Christians the NT and Muslims the Quran, but they all need the Oral Torah/rabbinical tradition. I think this is the best way of resolving the conflict between Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
You mention three religious factions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Where is the Messiah supposed to come from to perform that link? Judaism has lost too many lives for trusting Christianity and Islam. A compromise among these three traditions is highly impossible.
Judaism of course. Christians would not accept a messiah from Islam and Muslims would not accept a messiah from Christianity because Christians and Muslims are rivals. If Judaism is the bridge between Christianity and Islam and brings peace between Christians and Muslims, then peace will naturally come to the Jewish people as well. When Christians and Muslims accept and get behind rabbinical tradition, it will all fall in place. There are billions of Christians and Muslims in the world. If you can secure the co-operation of enough of them, they will give you the peace you always wanted. No more wars, no more conversions, no more missionaries. The Jewish people can live in peace and study the Torah all they like.
Is a compromise impossible? Is trust impossible? I think not. If Christianity and Islam are based on faulty premises, honest Christians and Muslims would compromise and the door is opened for rabbinical tradition to take its rightful place. You have to put your trust in rabbinical tradition.
I got you! There is no need to fight for survival! I am sure you are aware of where we would be today if we had not fought to remain where we are.
I think you misunderstood me there. I am not at all saying that a secular state should not fight for its own survival, that you should not fight for your country. But do you see it as a secular or religious matter? Are you fighting as a Jew or an Israeli? I see the two as different things. If you're going to have an affiliation with the IDF, it's probably better for you to leave your religion behind. Can you really do both?
To believe in the IDF is to believe in survival. Were not for the IDF we would be all drawn in the Mediterranean Sea today. To survive as the Jewish People, is what Adonai has allowed us to raise a strong IDF.
Has the exile ended yet, or is it still going? To quote one of the points raised in the web site I mentioned, the Jewish people are forbidden to "arise out of exile."
Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State
SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden
, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations
of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.
Forming the secular state of Israel was forbidden because the Jewish people are still under the yoke of the Gentiles. Where was the divine authority to establish the modern state of Israel? Did some prophet or the heavenly voice proclaim it, or was it all because people felt like it was the right thing to do? Obviously Zionists (whether it was Christian, secular or atheist) believed it was the right thing to do because it seemed to fulfill certain biblical prophecies -- and then a whole lot of Jews got dragged into it for some reason.
I don't believe the exile has ended yet because of what it says in Christian Tradition -- which is similar to what the above web page said:
They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:24
The "Times of the Gentiles" have not ended. Gentiles still rule the world. The Europeans, Americans, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Christians and Muslims rule the world. Christians and Muslims have not all acknowledged the faulty premises in Christianity and Islam and accepted rabbinical tradition. The Jewish people therefore cannot peacefully take back their land. Therefore the exile continues.
The IDF may continue to win many wars and battles, but is the Lord really part of Israel's wars, or is it just an illusion? How do you know if the leaders of the IDF aren't geniuses? How do you know if it isn't due to their enemies' incompetence? Let's also not neglect the external factor: the interference of the "Illuminatis" in the region and their efforts in weakening Israel's enemies. Beware of the jingoism.
Yes, I did; but for two reasons I am not too fun of links. The first in this case is the ignorance of Othodox Jews who oppose themselves to the Zionist State. And the second is that, IMHO, links are only the personal opinion of another man. I don't like to subscribe myself to authority in any kind of issue just because he or she has achieved a title on the subject.
I thought the arguments would speak for themselves.