Symmetry: Derail from Sound and Sacred Geometry

seattlegal

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Wil, clean up on aisle three!

I copied some posts from a derail so we may continue here.

Since I am always guilty of using the term "vibration" when trying to describe my experiences - i will interject here...
It seems you folks are trying to fit everything about this subject into the descriptions of the very narrow range of audible sound.
I do not think that is going to work.
The reason is this (and please bear with me - I am trying to avoid scientific terms and describe something I experience ) :
If one is to experience vibrations higher ( or lower - for whatever reason ) they will indeed "experience" those sounds using perceptions which are "outside" of the ears...... my entire being vibrates with those frequencies when I explore them - not the bones in my ears....
How do i explain the use of senses you are not even aware you posess? I cannot.

But I CAN tell you that i have worked on boats - I became aware of a phenomenon called Cavitation. When a boat has two props, they must be operated at the same speed or cavitation will occur - an example of the Chaos Theory... the two vibrations will "battle" and all sorts of cross currents and chaos will ensue....

This can be displayed easily in your driveway as well - place a glass of water on the hood of your car... it will vibrate and concentric rings will be seen on the surface of the water as it idles evenly.... rev the engine and the water will splash and thrash until a higher vibration is evenly assumed, where the concentric rings will form again....
the period of thrashing describes the change from one vibration to the other.... a period of chaos....

I believe the asymmetrical frequencies you mention are just these types of frequencies - the contact of two dissimilar vibrations.... portions of reality going through a change....

Symmetry is a message from our Creator. It is representative of Universal Law. It tells us that peace may be had anywhere we exist - if we are aware of our natural state. Furthermore, it assures us that during our moments of Chaos - that peace and rest is to be found at the end of our trials...

Harmony is the result of Symmetry... and it is representative of Perfection - which we are never to forget is our destination ( which is why the examples surround us... )

and to forestall another question - Yes, even asymmetrical vibration is "perfection" - for it leads us in a natural way towards that which is perfect .... one might even say that it is the asymmetrical which is even more beneficial to us at this stage than the symmetrical - it keeps us seeking... one can not relax in chaos....
and do not forget that the physical is where we are confronted by opposites.... and one of those opposites MUST appear "Bad" to us... that's how the physical works....

I am convinced that vibration will one day be our best road map to the Heavens - i feel the equipment within me to determine vibration in an exact way. I can find the same vibratory "places " EXACTLY, with no difficulty - in a repeatable way.... and i accept information which directly equates to vibration... which must "lower" itself before i begin to understand..... Life is Movement - of which Vibration is the signature....

Hey, speak for yourself! :D

well, perhaps I should say " Relaxing in Chaos has it's costs..."

Let's back up a bit here:


Where is the harmony in the symmetry of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?" I say "nay," as hate does not overcome hate.


Oh, you mean like not paying back evil with evil, and such? ;)

So yes, I can relax in such asymmetry, and balance and harmony can be achevied without symmetry.

We are getting away from sound and sacred geometry here. Maybe we can start another thread?

I look forward to it. (oh and that eye for an eye thing ain't a minimum, it is a maximum if any penalty at all is imposed)

When the Law of Karma is considered, hate is hate's own destruction...
give hate, and hate is received until the error is noticed...


well, we didn't actually get to thoroughly link my comment with the topic.... but if you are done....

There is the karma that is the fruit of action, but then there is the karma of intent which affects ones mind. When your mind is overcome with greed, hate, or delusion, you do silly things like killing, lying, stealing, and telling others to do so, which escalates long term suffering. So no, when you apply the law of karma regarding hate, hate does not become its own destruction. Hate actually escalates suffering for everyone, especially if everyone symmetrically plays along.


If you want to start a thread, I'd be happy to continue there. We might even get wil to move these posts there too, if we ask him nicely.
 

seattlegal

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OK, karma is not as simple as one would make it out to be. Hate does not overcome hate, and karma doesn't burn out hatred.

Balance and harmony does not require symmetry. :D
 

Etu Malku

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Since we're talking about symmetry:

Saturn in Egyptian is Sabt which means Sirius (Dog Star) which is equated with Anbu (Anubis) (Greeks took the idea and ran with it calling their Saturday Kronos (Kyon) which means dog.

The ancient Egyptian calendar is based on the helical rising of Sabt.
Music and the calendar were intimately related. Sabt / Sirius is referred to as the 'first' and the Dorian scale (Named after people of Kemet) is the first choice of scale that the Egyptians composed with.

D is Re in our diatonic scale (C do D re E mi etc)
Re is of course the Primeval Egyptian God associated with the Sun
The Dorian mode is the only mode that is of perfect symmetry and
balance with an ebb & flow of the Cosmic Egg shape (all orbits are elliptical)

Dorian Scale: D w E 1/2 F w G w A w B 1/2 C w D
w = whole step
1/2 = half step

The Egg, the symmetry of Fibonacci, the Golden Mean (different than the Golden Ratio) all find their way back to Kemetic Cosmology, the Primordial Vibration that emerged from the Waters of Nun / Abyss set into motion from the Divine Utterance. Metaphors? Allegories?

So many sciences such as Cymatics and the Harmonic vibrations of the Harmonograph show us the symmetry and harmonious relations of this Divine Utterance, we read in Egyptian religion of knowing the 'true' name of someone, the Sufis have the understanding of sound being the primeval force setting all of the material Universe into being.

Musiq is our relation from our captive Physical being with our Higher Self and the Spiritual Plane.
 

seattlegal

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Since we're talking about symmetry:

Saturn in Egyptian is Sabt which means Sirius (Dog Star) which is equated with Anbu (Anubis) (Greeks took the idea and ran with it calling their Saturday Kronos (Kyon) which means dog.

The ancient Egyptian calendar is based on the helical rising of Sabt.
Music and the calendar were intimately related. Sabt / Sirius is referred to as the 'first' and the Dorian scale (Named after people of Kemet) is the first choice of scale that the Egyptians composed with.

D is Re in our diatonic scale (C do D re E mi etc)
Re is of course the Primeval Egyptian God associated with the Sun
The Dorian mode is the only mode that is of perfect symmetry and
balance with an ebb & flow of the Cosmic Egg shape (all orbits are elliptical)

Dorian Scale: D w E 1/2 F w G w A w B 1/2 C w D
w = whole step
1/2 = half step

The Egg, the symmetry of Fibonacci, the Golden Mean (different than the Golden Ratio) all find their way back to Kemetic Cosmology, the Primordial Vibration that emerged from the Waters of Nun / Abyss set into motion from the Divine Utterance. Metaphors? Allegories?

So many sciences such as Cymatics and the Harmonic vibrations of the Harmonograph show us the symmetry and harmonious relations of this Divine Utterance, we read in Egyptian religion of knowing the 'true' name of someone, the Sufis have the understanding of sound being the primeval force setting all of the material Universe into being.

Musiq is our relation from our captive Physical being with our Higher Self and the Spiritual Plane.
So we fell a whole step from the dorian scale to the diatonic scale? *doh* (pun intended) ;)
 

Etu Malku

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The "FALL" from perfection!! . . . hehehe

The ancient musical scale that is at the heart of manifestation is what the Eastern Indians call the Shruti (22 note scale) and the Persians / Middle Easterns call Maqams (again 22 note scale).

The Laws of the Octave and how the 22 tones are naturally created by the procession of logarithms through octaves is actually the Overtone scale series, which in turn gives us the Golden Fibonacci Spiral and a view into the nature of how energy manifests into material.

This number 22 can be found in the Qabalah (Tree of Life and Tree of Death paths), the 22 molecules that make up the Hydrogen atom (the basis of all life) and of course the 22 Tarot cards of the Major Arcana.

There are 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet

22 = 2 + 2 = 4 : Four is one more than three and can be defined as a spiritual awakening or rebirth out of the Holy Trinity (3)

The number 22 is significant in many systems of numerology, sometimes called the Master Builder or Spiritual Master in Form. This 'master number' includes all the attributes of the number 2, twice over, and also those of the 4.
 

Bhaktajan II

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Is "Geo-metry" self-generative?
Is "Geo-metry" an ex-pression of e-volution
striving for self-intented Anthropo-morphism?

Is "Geo-metry" a biological machine

that plateaus at Humans,
and now,
we humans pro-duce machines to do our busi-ness,
thus freeing us up to do . . . other occupations?


 

Etu Malku

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Geometry is a Greek term - geo=earth, metria=measurement
It is the science of shape, size, relative position of figures, and the properties of space.

I would say it is simply the product of the Golden Mean and vibration which is behind the creation of everything known in the objective universe.

https://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGtiSCBXbHAg&rct=j&sa=X&ei=C2SxT-iJHI306AGvt7mQCQ&ved=0CGkQuAIwAw&q=cymatics&usg=AFQjCNEM8bskb-sV6zSikPlWHF8CLqJkkw&cad=rja

Z

Z
 

Hermes

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Let me stop you here for a moment.... Sirius and Saturn are two completely different celestial bodies, one is the sixth planet from the Sun and the other is Sirius is also known colloquially as the "Dog Star", reflecting its prominence in its constellation, Canis Major...So whatever the Egyptians called or knew is either transliteration error or a simple mistake. As far as I know the Egyptian Astrologers did not make mistakes this huge.
Since we're talking about symmetry:

Saturn in Egyptian is Sabt which means Sirius (Dog Star) which is equated with Anbu (Anubis) (Greeks took the idea and ran with it calling their Saturday Kronos (Kyon) which means dog.

Musiq is our relation from our captive Physical being with our Higher Self and the Spiritual Plane.
 

Bhaktajan II

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Geometry is a Greek term - geo=earth, metria=measurement
It is the science of shape, size, relative position of figures, and the properties of space.

I would say it is simply the product of the Golden Mean and vibration which is behind the creation of everything known in the objective universe.

https://www.google.com/url?url=http...sg=AFQjCNEM8bskb-sV6zSikPlWHF8CLqJkkw&cad=rja


This is fasinating.

Golden Ratio = 1: 1.61803399

DiVinci expressed it in his famous drawing named, 'Vitruvius Man'.

Then there is Vitruvius the architect himself & his math based architectural propotions . . .
and then there is Pythagoris himself too.

What is the meaning or relation of the above to the "4:9 Ratio" ?
 

BrotherMichaelSky

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There is the karma that is the fruit of action, but then there is the karma of intent which affects ones mind. When your mind is overcome with greed, hate, or delusion, you do silly things like killing, lying, stealing, and telling others to do so, which escalates long term suffering. So no, when you apply the law of karma regarding hate, hate does not become its own destruction. Hate actually escalates suffering for everyone, especially if everyone symmetrically plays along.

I feel that Karma is a very simple sort of autopilot....
in the spirit of this particular discussion I shall phrase this in terms of vibration...

but first let me establish a couple things to provide a framework for my expressed understanding.
The first would be that we will have to corral what would actually be a whole host of notes, and themes even, into the label of a "song ".... to indicate the specific vibration of any individual...
so, in regards to that individuals personal vibration this can only be expressed as a "song" or individual signature.... there is no connotation of "good" or "bad" - just a personal "song"....
secondly, to reinforce that everyone's "song" is different - including entirely differing themes and notes which are unfamiliar to one another.......

moving on.... so, we have an individual in a Karmic situation.....

the energy supplied by every participant of the situation all blends together, and each and every participant will react to that energy in a manner which is entirely appropriate to the INDIVIDUAL....

The "song" of one might harmonize with this particular blend of energies, while the "song" of another is repressed and muted by those very same energies...

each individual is to carefully pay attention and gauge the effect of those energies which surround it - because as long as they consider what is happening to be the result of EXTERIOR forces, the Law of Karma will keep up an oscillation with those troublesome energies...
One will find them selves attracted over and over again to the very same troublesome energies - off and on.... off and on... in oscillation.... cavitation, as it were.....

UNTIL the consciousness says "ok, I am beginning to detect a pattern here...." and in each successive incarnation there is more and more of "inner knowing" ( fancy words - I mean your conscience... )

When the soul is born with the strength of inner conviction to avoid those degrading ways and habits, due to an "inner knowing" and nothing further, it is able to reach higher....

( or it can be "remembered", and one must work like the dicken's to undo all the harm you have done yourself in this lifetime, to catch up to where you were before ya started ............)

and it can reach higher CONSCIOUSLY - the WHOLE... ENTIRE... POINT... IN A NUTSHELL
:)
which releases that soul from the "autopilot" of Karma... one steers their very own course at that point.... and energy is dealt with consciously - in "REALTIME"

(( energy is directly translatable to vibration... a Master Energy Manipulator would have to be considered an accomplished conductor.... IMOFFO )
 

seattlegal

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I feel that Karma is a very simple sort of autopilot....
in the spirit of this particular discussion I shall phrase this in terms of vibration...

but first let me establish a couple things to provide a framework for my expressed understanding.
The first would be that we will have to corral what would actually be a whole host of notes, and themes even, into the label of a "song ".... to indicate the specific vibration of any individual...
so, in regards to that individuals personal vibration this can only be expressed as a "song" or individual signature.... there is no connotation of "good" or "bad" - just a personal "song"....
secondly, to reinforce that everyone's "song" is different - including entirely differing themes and notes which are unfamiliar to one another.......

moving on.... so, we have an individual in a Karmic situation.....

the energy supplied by every participant of the situation all blends together, and each and every participant will react to that energy in a manner which is entirely appropriate to the INDIVIDUAL....

The "song" of one might harmonize with this particular blend of energies, while the "song" of another is repressed and muted by those very same energies...

each individual is to carefully pay attention and gauge the effect of those energies which surround it - because as long as they consider what is happening to be the result of EXTERIOR forces, the Law of Karma will keep up an oscillation with those troublesome energies...
One will find them selves attracted over and over again to the very same troublesome energies - off and on.... off and on... in oscillation.... cavitation, as it were.....

UNTIL the consciousness says "ok, I am beginning to detect a pattern here...." and in each successive incarnation there is more and more of "inner knowing" ( fancy words - I mean your conscience... )

When the soul is born with the strength of inner conviction to avoid those degrading ways and habits, due to an "inner knowing" and nothing further, it is able to reach higher....

( or it can be "remembered", and one must work like the dicken's to undo all the harm you have done yourself in this lifetime, to catch up to where you were before ya started ............)

and it can reach higher CONSCIOUSLY - the WHOLE... ENTIRE... POINT... IN A NUTSHELL
:)
which releases that soul from the "autopilot" of Karma... one steers their very own course at that point.... and energy is dealt with consciously - in "REALTIME"

(( energy is directly translatable to vibration... a Master Energy Manipulator would have to be considered an accomplished conductor.... IMOFFO )
Agreed. We have to consciously and willfully break the symmetry of answering hate with hate in order to establish balance and harmony. If you leave it to the commonly prevailing (unthinking) physical default (karma,) hate will escalate.
 

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Agreed. We have to consciously and willfully break the symmetry of answering hate with hate in order to establish balance and harmony. If you leave it to the commonly prevailing (unthinking) physical default (karma,) hate will escalate.

if you don't mind - i might just steal that at some point.... lots fewer words... :)
 

seattlegal

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Etu, I think you error in thinking geometry is property of space. Geometry is shape/aspect associated of occupied space.

Space can be occupied/something or non-occupied/nohting.

The metaphysical, macro-micro infinite, non-occupied space, that exists only beyond our finite physical/energy and quasi-physical/gravity Universe, has no properties and its only shape is defined by the finite physical/energy and quasi-physical/gravity Universe it embraces, ergo the metaphysical non-occupied space is defined from and inner circumference not outer circumference.

Macro-micro infinite non-occupied space, has no circumference ergo no outer chordal shape.

Rybo the Rybot

Unoccupied space is not nothing. It is unoccupied space. It has the property of being unoccupied.

If you want nothing, erase space. Then erase the idea of no-space.
 

Etu Malku

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Etu, I think you error in thinking geometry is property of space. Geometry is shape/aspect associated of occupied space.

Space can be occupied/something or non-occupied/nohting.

The metaphysical, macro-micro infinite, non-occupied space, that exists only beyond our finite physical/energy and quasi-physical/gravity Universe, has no properties and its only shape is defined by the finite physical/energy and quasi-physical/gravity Universe it embraces, ergo the metaphysical non-occupied space is defined from and inner circumference not outer circumference.

Macro-micro infinite non-occupied space, has no circumference ergo no outer chordal shape.

Rybo the Rybot
LOL . . . you again? Once more, you're not arguing with 'ME' but you are rather arguing with the scholars that create the Oxford Dictionary, since thyat is where I got my definition from.
 

Etu Malku

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22 molecules in the hydrogen Atom? I thought atoms were in molecules and not the other way round.

Etu??
Sorry, let me research a little more, it's been a while since I talked about Gurdjieff and the Enneagram.

From the above linked "derail" thread:
So geometry is mathematics expressed in terms of space, whereas music is mathematics expressed in terms of time?
That would be correct.
 

Bhaktajan II

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Unoccupied space is not nothing. It is unoccupied space. It has the property of being unoccupied.

If you want nothing, erase space. Then erase the idea of no-space.

Whoa! What propolsion system are you using.

This is like a Locomotive engine ---I though you were just running a regular V-8 block, albeit with 10 gear levels.

You have been putting it to the metal lately.
 
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