Etu Malku
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It was clearly put. My only question is, "from where, should moral judgment come from?" Certainly not from religion.
Ok, I'll bite....where should it come from?
Gov't?
the tribe?
the parents?
the elders?
the law?
teachers?
And what if the parents are theives, the gov't and police are corrupt, the tribe is the conqueriing herd lead by greedy elders and there is no law?
Well a moral ancient people that want to change the ways might develop an invisible man in the sky and a mythical place to put bad people that is worse than anyone can imagine, or a punishment of making them come back as a lesser being... and then an appropriate carrot as well.
Why is that so confusing?
So we should allow the delusional, corrupt, pedophile clergy set our moral standards? Right, that makes sense.
So, I gave you an opportunity to tell us where it is to come from and you choose the above as a mentor? I question your choices their brother...
Hi EM —
Moral judgement derives from societal mores, it seems to me, and are contextualised by religion, rather than introduced by religion as an element of 'revelation' or 'enlightenment'?
In fact I think religions would be a lot 'cleaner' or better understood if they managed to strip away the cultural baggage imported 'unseen'.
I am of the view, for example, that the position of the female in the Christian worldview would be radically different if the Hebrew/Hellenic norms had not been incorporated into Christendom. Certainly the revelatory aspects of Scripture point to a different order of relation entirely ... how about a male priesthood, with a female pope? I can actually argue that, based on Scripture! (And if a female pope, then why not female priests ... )
Look at the tragedy facing Islam, which is being redefined by nationalism andy sectarianism. Too often Sharia Law is actually cultural practice and not religious commentary ...
God bless,
Thomas
Ignoring the obvious anti-religious prejudice (the only PC-acceptable prejudice left, I think someone once said), I would to some degree question that notion anyway.
Moral judgement derives from societal mores, it seems to me, and are contextualised by religion, rather than introduced by religion as an element of 'revelation' or 'enlightenment'?
In fact I think religions would be a lot 'cleaner' or better understood if they managed to strip away the cultural baggage imported 'unseen'.
I am of the view, for example, that the position of the female in the Christian worldview would be radically different if the Hebrew/Hellenic norms had not been incorporated into Christendom. Certainly the revelatory aspects of Scripture point to a different order of relation entirely ... how about a male priesthood, with a female pope? I can actually argue that, based on Scripture! (And if a female pope, then why not female priests ... )
Look at the tragedy facing Islam, which is being redefined by nationalism andy sectarianism. Too often Sharia Law is actually cultural practice and not religious commentary ...
God bless,
Thomas
H
Hermes
Guest
This morality is from our higher self, which is normally allowed to faintly protrude to our mundane daily lives. In some people, this "voice" is stronger than others. In extreme cases men make extra effort to ignore and science this inner voice.
During our childhood, parenting has a role how this inner voice would come across in our adult life. For example introducing the Law of Karma to a child is decidedly better than telling about some entity, a celestial boogieman, that would punish and smite, upon his misdeeds. Also following ones' Karma is logical and self-interest. Teaching about the Unity of mankind (all is one) is also a concept can be introduced to a child. I tell my daughter that "when you hurt others - ultimately you're only hurting yourself", she gets it. Only a self-destructive, sociopath would ignore this and go the other way (sadly this happens sometimes)
This is a slice of "god's consciousness" - we can claim that religion also allows and fosters this voice but clearly organized religion is not required. There are many moral men who do not partake in religion and still maintain their humanity and purity of soul.
During our childhood, parenting has a role how this inner voice would come across in our adult life. For example introducing the Law of Karma to a child is decidedly better than telling about some entity, a celestial boogieman, that would punish and smite, upon his misdeeds. Also following ones' Karma is logical and self-interest. Teaching about the Unity of mankind (all is one) is also a concept can be introduced to a child. I tell my daughter that "when you hurt others - ultimately you're only hurting yourself", she gets it. Only a self-destructive, sociopath would ignore this and go the other way (sadly this happens sometimes)
This is a slice of "god's consciousness" - we can claim that religion also allows and fosters this voice but clearly organized religion is not required. There are many moral men who do not partake in religion and still maintain their humanity and purity of soul.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Get it where you find it. Usually religion, at least that is what Plato and Heraclitus and Epictetus thought. In the East ir is a little different, since spirit is prevalent in Buddism, Taoism, Confucianism and native shamanism.
If you just gotta hate religion and spirit, try Mill and utilitarianism.
They all basically say the same thing "do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you, all the rest is commentary, go and learn". Anything else (like "all that matters is who has the mostest and biggest and bestest toys") is what I indicated above, sociopathic.
That I get from G!D via the Ch!rist Jesus via the H!ly Spirit. Yeah, I know you do not accept that.
Etu Malku
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Good points everyone!
I wasn't really asking for advice () because I consider myself an extremely moral person within and outside my society's limits.
Where did I get my moral code from?
Let me say that being a Luciferian and also someone who associates with the 'Darker' crowd so to speak, my moral code needs to be up to par, we are endlessly and wrongly accused of atrocities in the name of Satan, which is just not true.
That said, my moral and ethical code began with my parents and certain friends throughout my life, I'll admit some of my code of conduct was realized through the decades of religious studies, and certainly philosophical research.
I read, assimilate, and formulate my own code of morality and ethics.
The society and culture where I live dictates the detailed aspects of what I can & cannot do. I compromise legally, but no one can change my mind, for that is Free to Be.
I can agree to a point with Hermes, and I would like to believe that My Higher Self and Daimon are assisting me in my choices (as we know life is about the choices you make), that as we spiritually evolve and incarnate again and again, our higher beings (Self & Daimon) move up also the Tree of Life and can better advise us in our choices down here.
and now . . . scotch, a poor choice in life!
I wasn't really asking for advice (
) because I consider myself an extremely moral person within and outside my society's limits.Where did I get my moral code from?
Let me say that being a Luciferian and also someone who associates with the 'Darker' crowd so to speak, my moral code needs to be up to par, we are endlessly and wrongly accused of atrocities in the name of Satan, which is just not true.
That said, my moral and ethical code began with my parents and certain friends throughout my life, I'll admit some of my code of conduct was realized through the decades of religious studies, and certainly philosophical research.
I read, assimilate, and formulate my own code of morality and ethics.
The society and culture where I live dictates the detailed aspects of what I can & cannot do. I compromise legally, but no one can change my mind, for that is Free to Be.
I can agree to a point with Hermes, and I would like to believe that My Higher Self and Daimon are assisting me in my choices (as we know life is about the choices you make), that as we spiritually evolve and incarnate again and again, our higher beings (Self & Daimon) move up also the Tree of Life and can better advise us in our choices down here.
and now . . . scotch, a poor choice in life!
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Poiteen is better (and more ancient)!
l
Namaste Etu, these thoughts are my own and as I really don't grasp all you believe (nor Thomas, nor many here) my words which may be akin to what you use come from a different source.
So got your moral code from Satan? love it.
I think I did as well. Although not in the same vein.
I don't believe in any critter called 'the devil' never have or never have as an adult.
I was raised to be moral by my parents, but it didn't take, I succumbed to peer pressure, joined the wrong crowd, took the wrong path (not blaming anyone....I went down that road of my own freewill). Broke the golden rule, many a time, in many a way, left more than a few in my wake and under my foot, for my gain, pleasure and stupidity.
I was slowly brought out of it by my wife and kids, and by connecting to a religion, a belief system....reality set in.... or my current perceived reality.
I've got a long way to go to consider myself 'extremely moral'.
Good points everyone!
I wasn't really asking for advice (
Where did I get my moral code from?
Let me say that being a Luciferian and also someone who associates with the 'Darker' crowd so to speak, my moral code needs to be up to par, we are endlessly and wrongly accused of atrocities in the name of Satan, which is just not true.
That said, my moral and ethical code began with my parents and certain friends throughout my life, I'll admit some of my code of conduct was realized through the decades of religious studies, and certainly philosophical research.
Namaste Etu, these thoughts are my own and as I really don't grasp all you believe (nor Thomas, nor many here) my words which may be akin to what you use come from a different source.
So got your moral code from Satan? love it.
I think I did as well. Although not in the same vein.
I don't believe in any critter called 'the devil' never have or never have as an adult.
I was raised to be moral by my parents, but it didn't take, I succumbed to peer pressure, joined the wrong crowd, took the wrong path (not blaming anyone....I went down that road of my own freewill). Broke the golden rule, many a time, in many a way, left more than a few in my wake and under my foot, for my gain, pleasure and stupidity.
I was slowly brought out of it by my wife and kids, and by connecting to a religion, a belief system....reality set in.... or my current perceived reality.
I've got a long way to go to consider myself 'extremely moral'.
Dad wouldn't go, as he refused to listen to someone pontificate to a hundred people who wasn't willing to stand for a Q&A afterword....
Mom took us to Sunday school....that lasted till 4th grade for me...
Etu Malku
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Well there ya go, 8-9 yrs of religious indoctrination and approval from the Mother archetype and the complete reverse and antinomy from the Father archetype.
When I was a member of the Temple of Set part of our first year's reading was about indoctrination and its mind control, like the Temple I also believe no one should be introduced to religion until they are thinking for themself in order to avoid this indoctrination.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Upping post count so they can spam with links, maybe?
(He even bumped my PMS thread.)
Etu Malku
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good thinking, bet you're right!Upping post count so they can spam with links, maybe?
(He even bumped my PMS thread.)