Random observations from a mountain top

[etsijä]

Everyone seems to know a great deal of nice, complicated-suonding words here. I do not, sorry. I've never understood the idea of citing scripture using alumallabalah words. Is it not more important to talk about what you believe, what you think and what you really feel is important, than to try to impress a great deal of people you just do not know, by sounding like you spend all your days memorizing some religious dictionary?

This is by no means meant to offend, this is something I have been wondering about for a long time. Why people do this? What is the importance of this complicated words, other than put those who know the meaning of them "above" those who do not? Making those "in the know" to feel superior?

Not that it is only the words I do not understand. It is also the tendecy to cite scriputures. I mean, sure, it is nice to read inspiring books and what some wise person might have said or then just been credited as have said. But really, I can read the Bible, Quran, Wicca, that-book-I-have-about-hinduism-with-a-name-I-never-remember-bara-something and so on. What I'm more interested in is what thought people themselves have, here and now. Not what they have read.

Why do people not have the courage to say "I have NOT read this in a book written 2000+ years ago, but I believe that XXXX...."?

Why do people not take their eyes away from the books, and look out at the world? Comment of what they think they see, what they think. Not what some guy sometimes might have thought.

People are not stupied. Of course, some are. But in general. It just seems that we are all so deep into the idea that all wisdom can be found in what someone else have said.

 

[etsijä]

... and as to why I put this post in the cathegory "alternative". Well, I DO like the word "alternative", and it seemes as good a place as any...

 

[etsijä]

I'm really bored. I figured I could write something really insightful, interesting and oh so wise. The problem is, I don't tend to be any of those things. Mostly I just tend to walk around feeling confused, wondering what the... is going on??

I guess I should leave these kind of writings to my blog. But I tend to feel lonely there and also, I feel spiritual today, and have a longing to be among other some kind of spiritual people. Even if most of you probably are still sleeping as you are on the other side of the Atlantic... But hey, I'm not picky. Really, I tend to get so confused by people that I prefer them over the internet, so that I do not have to meet them in person.

As for spiritual. My mind is blank right now. Should I then say I am in a buddhist state of mind? I guess not, since I am also restless. I really should get around starting to meditate. I just have a problem sitting still, being still. And I tend to like all my thoughts more than I like this blankness. I do not want blankness and calm, I want energy and nice little thoughts in my head that impresses myself. (no one else seems to be impressed though. But since, from a philosophical point of view, I can ask if anyone else even exists, I do not need to worry about that)

I was reading about wayism. I found this forum by googling it. Someone had made a post about it. Anyways, I keep wondering. Is there any other randomly confused beings out there, who likes to ramble on about nothing and never make sense?

Yes, I am crazy, if you wondered. Sane is just too boring...

Of course, what is sane, what is crazy... When I meet a person stating they are perfectly sane, that is when I am sure I've met a really crazy person.

I just realized this might not have to do anything with religion. Sorry about that. As I said, I'm bored, and feeling spritual. That is as close to religion I come most of these days.

 

[seattlegal]

I'm really bored. I figured I could write something really insightful, interesting and oh so wise. The problem is, I don't tend to be any of those things. Mostly I just tend to walk around feeling confused, wondering what the... is going on??

I guess I should leave these kind of writings to my blog. But I tend to feel lonely there and also, I feel spiritual today, and have a longing to be among other some kind of spiritual people. Even if most of you probably are still sleeping as you are on the other side of the Atlantic... But hey, I'm not picky. Really, I tend to get so confused by people that I prefer them over the internet, so that I do not have to meet them in person.

As for spiritual. My mind is blank right now. Should I then say I am in a buddhist state of mind?

Blankness is not necessarily a Buddhist state of mind. Mindfulness is, though.

I guess not, since I am also restless. I really should get around starting to meditate. I just have a problem sitting still, being still. And I tend to like all my thoughts more than I like this blankness. I do not want blankness and calm, I want energy and nice little thoughts in my head that impresses myself. (no one else seems to be impressed though. But since, from a philosophical point of view, I can ask if anyone else even exists, I do not need to worry about that)

Have you tried mindful walking meditation? It will help you to induce lucid dreams, where you realize that you are dreaming while dreaming, allowing you to consciously take control of the dream. If you like nice little thoughts in your mind, this might be the meditation for you.

 

[etsijä]

Have you tried mindful walking meditation?QUOTE]

You know, I used to walk around a lot, just to get my thoughts going, not really thinking about walking, but just ... being. I did not call it walking meditation, but I guess it could be near to that. Anyways, I had to stop since everyone around me got so frustrated and repeatedly asked me if I just could be still for one moment... But one moment was never enough... And also, I keep stumbling over our cats

I guess I should go outside. Now that spring in almost here, it is getting a little bit drier... I just do not like walking outside so much, it is too noicy and people everywhere and I get distracted. I tend to get distracted just as easily as I get bored...

Oh and to talk about mindfullness. I have wondered about that word. There is so much in Buddhism that descibes meditation and the goal of it to be mindfullness, but at the same time "emptiness of mind". How can your mind be full and empty at the same time..?

As for Buddhism in general, I like many aspects of it. I just disagree with many too. Or at least I disagree with the view I have of some things about Buddhism. Maybe I've just gotten the wrong picture, I do not know.

I'm reading a great book about zen buddhism. That popular one, hardcore zen something... Written by a Brad something... Like a lot of it, disagree with some. I would give you examples, but my memory desided to evade me.

 

[seattlegal]

Have you tried mindful walking meditation?

You know, I used to walk around a lot, just to get my thoughts going, not really thinking about walking, but just ... being. I did not call it walking meditation, but I guess it could be near to that. Anyways, I had to stop since everyone around me got so frustrated and repeatedly asked me if I just could be still for one moment... But one moment was never enough... And also, I keep stumbling over our cats

I don't think that stumbling over your cats would be considered as mindful.
When doing mindful walking, try to pay attention to the sensation of your feet contacting the ground, and how your muscles and bones feel when walking. The goal is to know that you are walking. (If you know when you are really walking, then you will more likely recognize that you are not physically walking when you dream, which will make you recognize you are dreaming.)

I guess I should go outside. Now that spring in almost here, it is getting a little bit drier... I just do not like walking outside so much, it is too noicy and people everywhere and I get distracted. I tend to get distracted just as easily as I get bored...

Try being mindful for a short period of time, then increase that time as you practice.

Oh and to talk about mindfullness. I have wondered about that word. There is so much in Buddhism that descibes meditation and the goal of it to be mindfullness, but at the same time "emptiness of mind". How can your mind be full and empty at the same time..?

"Emptiness" in Buddhism means that there is no single traceable essence of your mind--it is a bunch of interconnected parts that work together. It doesn't mean "blankness."
Śūnyatā is the term used--you might be able to wiki it in your native language to learn more.

As for Buddhism in general, I like many aspects of it. I just disagree with many too. Or at least I disagree with the view I have of some things about Buddhism. Maybe I've just gotten the wrong picture, I do not know.

I'm reading a great book about zen buddhism. That popular one, hardcore zen something... Written by a Brad something... Like a lot of it, disagree with some. I would give you examples, but my memory desided to evade me.

Zenmaster Thich Nhat Hanh's book, The Heart of Buddha's Teaching is a good book to help you understand Buddhism.

 

[etsijä]

When doing mindful walking, try to pay attention to the sensation of your feet contacting the ground, and how your muscles and bones feel when walking. The goal is to know that you are walking. (If you know when you are really walking, then you will more likely recognize that you are not physically walking when you dream, which will make you recognize you are dreaming.)

That is one thing I just do not get. I mean, why would I want to focus on my body, be aware of my body? It is not what I consider important. I want to focus more on what is outside - I want to smell the flowers, so to speak. I want to live, I want to experience.

That is maybe one of the biggest "disagreements" I tend to have with Buddhism - even if I want to "meditate" to calm down, I want to more to "loose myself" into the sound of nature, for example, like birdsong, a mountain stream... Listing to myself breathing, being aware of my body, that is not something I find very... How should I put it? ... relaxing? mind opening? calming?

 

[seattlegal]

That is one thing I just do not get. I mean, why would I want to focus on my body, be aware of my body?

Because the area where you can make real change is within your own being, which will reduce dukkha. (suffering-stress-dissatisfaction.)

It is not what I consider important. I want to focus more on what is outside - I want to smell the flowers, so to speak. I want to live, I want to experience.

Mindfulness will enhance your experience--you will know you are smelling a flower, so to speak.

That is maybe one of the biggest "disagreements" I tend to have with Buddhism - even if I want to "meditate" to calm down, I want to more to "loose myself" into the sound of nature, for example, like birdsong, a mountain stream... Listing to myself breathing, being aware of my body, that is not something I find very... How should I put it? ... relaxing? mind opening? calming?

Tathat? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Everyone seems to know a great deal of nice, complicated-suonding words here. I do not, sorry. I've never understood the idea of citing scripture using alumallabalah words. Is it not more important to talk about what you believe, what you think and what you really feel is important, than to try to impress a great deal of people you just do not know, by sounding like you spend all your days memorizing some religious dictionary?

Words are used to describe things, the words that you use everyday are words that describe things you face everyday, alumallabalah-words are used to describe complicated concepts that would take sentences to describe in plain text. The reason you don't understand them is simply because you don't use them or hear them being used very often. Some people lord their vocabulary over others for prestige, but it's simply a tool to make yourself understood by other people who also use the words. It's simple when you know how.

Why do people not take their eyes away from the books, and look out at the world? Comment of what they think they see, what they think. Not what some guy sometimes might have thought.

This is basically the same thing, sometimes there are concept so complicated or revolutionary that it's really hard to define, and then you read about it and the author made it so very clear with just a few phrases. You can also quote sections in the bible if it's part of a greater text and concepts discussed there are generally known and easy to relate to.

I read your discussion with Nick about looking for the right religion for you, it's good advice to a point. Many of the concepts in religion aren't intuitive or self explained, reading about meditation, prayer or fasting don't give you the insight into it's meaning and importance with wiki section. It takes time, study and lots of questions before we understand these things enough to dismiss them.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

That is one thing I just do not get. I mean, why would I want to focus on my body, be aware of my body? It is not what I consider important. I want to focus more on what is outside - I want to smell the flowers, so to speak. I want to live, I want to experience.

That is maybe one of the biggest "disagreements" I tend to have with Buddhism - even if I want to "meditate" to calm down, I want to more to "loose myself" into the sound of nature, for example, like birdsong, a mountain stream... Listing to myself breathing, being aware of my body, that is not something I find very... How should I put it? ... relaxing? mind opening? calming?

If you have a bit of a short attention-span perhaps Peaceful Warrior (2006) - IMDb would be helpful to realise some of the concepts seattlegal are talking about.

 

[etsijä]

thank you for discussing these things with me, seattlegal, I really appreciate it

Because the area where you can make real change is within your own being, which will reduce dukkha. (suffering-stress-dissatisfaction.)

What do you want to change? And why? I want to experience, most of all. I would like for people to change in some ways (not be so violent, destructive etc) but that is a futile wish, and since I do believe in free will, it is just to except. It is not like I a a saint either, so why would anyone else be. You just have to make the best out of it, and concentrate on your own life, and how to live it. And when it comes to myself... well, I guess there are some things I would like to change, one of them being my tendency to focus too much on myself and what I feel, and too little on living and what I want to do. And for me, meditation would just increase the former, not reduce...

Tathat? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I had to further google "suchness" to actually get some grasp of the term I found this page: Osho on Suchness – The Buddhist word for suchness is TATHATA. When reading it, I mostly thought it was "wishful thinking". but at the same time, a part of me was thinking maybe I should try it. But then again, my cynical, tired part is saying it would be useless, as everything else has been. You see, I have been suffering from continuous pains (not only headaches, as in that text, but mostly in my hands) for almost two years now, and the doctors can find no actual reason, and no medicine that helps. I've even tried those magnets, that are supposed to be good...

Anyways, just treating the pains as in that text.. Well, ... trying to write something, but I keep arguing with myself about it... afraid it would not work anyhow, and then I just end up getting all disappointed again. and then the "keep trying, you never know, it might work" part. So, do not know what I think of "suchness" yet

thank you for joining the conversation A Cup of Tea

I guess you are right, when it comes to words but in a way, I also feel that those words are what hinders, or what makes it difficult, when wanting to understand others. If you think about the world and all these different religions, and all these clashes between them, and how often they seem to come down to that people just do not understand each other, and that they always want to be right. Now, those who are interested in learning might not object to learning the meaning of words in for example hinduism, but what about those who are not interested, those who only want to have everyone believing just as they do, in their own difficult words that are not difficult for them?

My point is, not everyone have the time or the interest to look up and read about kamalubalah words, and when those are being thrown in their faces, they just get frustrated at not understanding, and then the antagonism increases. Of course in a forum like this, you are absolutely right about there being a reason for those difficult words. I was just in a really bad mood on Thursday, being bored to tears and stuck at work

that it's really hard to define, and then you read about it and the author made it so very clear with just a few phrases.

yeah, I get your point. I actually love quotes, and I often use them or metaphors myself but my point was even though I can use a quote or a metaphor to clarify what I mean, when discussing for example a passage in the Bible or I Ching or some other text, I'm not so much interested in reading quotes about other peoples impressions of the passage,, but about everyones own thoughts about it.

Also, when it comes to for example an issue. Say gay rights. Then I get really frustrated when only being faced with quotes from some book that someone wrote thousands of years ago... I also get frustrated about treating any book as I it were beyond reproach. If I ask, "why do you think so?" and the answer I get is "because it says so in book X", then it is actually what the person wh wrote that book thought. Now, a quote from a book, + a personal explanation why thinking that quote is correct, is okay. But the point is, I would like for people to actually think about their opinions, why they are of a certain opinion, and not only assume an opinion based on a book or because someone else is of that opinion.. Okay, now this explanation of mine got out of hand, but I hope you got my point?

Anyways, any of that what I wrote about difficult words and just quoting texts as truth without questioning, they expressed a general frustration of mine, I did not mean that it is so hear on this forum. I have not read enough yet to know about that As I said, I was having a bad day, and I tend to be a little... generalizing, when having a bad day. As I think I stated above, I am no saint, but then again, I do not want to be one. It sounds boring

If you have a bit of a short attention-span perhaps Peaceful Warrior (2006) - IMDb would be helpful to realise some of the concepts seattlegal are talking about.

my mind works in mysterious ways or to say it in another way, my concentration is at its best when reading, actually. I'm really, really not very good at concentrating at movies, and seldom watch them. I guess it is because when it comes to movies, you usually have to watch them, and then think. When reading, you can think through at the same time, and then take a pause if there is need to, and really think it through. I tend to do that, when I read. When watching a movie, I have to put it at pause manually. And I get all the pictures served, they do not leave anything to the imagination..

But thank you for the tip, if I feel like watching a movie, I'll keep that one in mind.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

I guess you are right, when it comes to words but in a way, I also feel that those words are what hinders, or what makes it difficult, when wanting to understand others. If you think about the world and all these different religions, and all these clashes between them, and how often they seem to come down to that people just do not understand each other, and that they always want to be right. Now, those who are interested in learning might not object to learning the meaning of words in for example hinduism, but what about those who are not interested, those who only want to have everyone believing just as they do, in their own difficult words that are not difficult for them?

My point is, not everyone have the time or the interest to look up and read about kamalubalah words, and when those are being thrown in their faces, they just get frustrated at not understanding, and then the antagonism increases. Of course in a forum like this, you are absolutely right about there being a reason for those difficult words. I was just in a really bad mood on Thursday, being bored to tears and stuck at work

I personally don't see the words themselves as the problem, they are simply tools used for different circumstances. They need to be chosen carefully to avoid confusion. Sometimes the words themselves are provocative for some people, but at other times people are simply not interested in understanding anything others have to say. I think that the only way to overcome obstacles of communication is through patience and understanding. Unfortunately a finite resource in people.

yeah, I get your point. I actually love quotes, and I often use them or metaphors myself but my point was even though I can use a quote or a metaphor to clarify what I mean, when discussing for example a passage in the Bible or I Ching or some other text, I'm not so much interested in reading quotes about other peoples impressions of the passage,, but about everyones own thoughts about it.

If someones impression of a text reflects my own thoughts I'm not sure I see the difference in using what that person said to express my own thoughts. Most of use aren't that good at expressing ourselves. But I might be missing your point of the difference between the two.

Also, when it comes to for example an issue. Say gay rights. Then I get really frustrated when only being faced with quotes from some book that someone wrote thousands of years ago... I also get frustrated about treating any book as I it were beyond reproach. If I ask, "why do you think so?" and the answer I get is "because it says so in book X", then it is actually what the person wh wrote that book thought. Now, a quote from a book, + a personal explanation why thinking that quote is correct, is okay. But the point is, I would like for people to actually think about their opinions, why they are of a certain opinion, and not only assume an opinion based on a book or because someone else is of that opinion.. Okay, now this explanation of mine got out of hand, but I hope you got my point?

Yes, a lot of people are frustrated with that. I'm not but we're all different. The way I see it is that you consider your own thoughts on the matter more relevant then an old text, you might think they are equally flawed but your own thoughts are yours, is that about right?

Well a lot of people just simply see themselves as flawed but Scripture as divine words or at least divine inspiration. The are thus without flaw. This is not my own opinion, but I can understand why people believe that and why it would be very easy to follow such a path.

Anyways, any of that what I wrote about difficult words and just quoting texts as truth without questioning, they expressed a general frustration of mine, I did not mean that it is so hear on this forum. I have not read enough yet to know about that As I said, I was having a bad day, and I tend to be a little... generalizing, when having a bad day. As I think I stated above, I am no saint, but then again, I do not want to be one. It sounds boring

We're just expressing ourselves here, feel free to vent your frustration (within the guidelines of this forum), I just hope you continue to be as respectful and considerate as you have shown yourself so far.

 

[wil]

namaste estija,

ah exploration.... some folks were raised on scripture, be it the Tao te Ching, Torah, Bible, Quran, Gita, Dharma.....they've read it, contemplated it, argued it, lived with it...so they'll likely quote it when appropriate.

You've come to a great place to take advantage of that....a wide variety of thought, folks interested in dissussion and when it comes to cirumambulation (walking around a concept and looking at it, contemplating it from all angles) sometimes the big words just describe things just right... me, I keep a dictionary handy and have to search the net to keep up with deep thinkers around here!

hope you enjoy the ride...