S
Virtual_Cliff
Well-Known Member
This article tries to be polite about the American invasion. It shouldn't be. I was in Arabia in the 70s when the US was still held in high regard but even then it was looked down on for its decadence. Now in the Middle East and throughout the non-Western world the US and sadly the UK is simply despised. If the US thinks Iraq will ever in a thousand years "come around" it is making a profound mis-judgement.
BluejayWay
More evidence? Thank you!
I couldn't open that link, but I agree that we've painted ourselves into a corner here. I've had the pleasure of meeting a group of Iraqis some time back, before the First Gulf War. They struck me as proud, intelligent people, who cared about their country and their families and their people. Perhaps they weren't too excited about fighting for Saddam, but it did not surprise me to see Iraquis ready to defend their country, at any cost.
The United States is led by an ideological cabal with a strong Apocalyptic current coursing through its veins--as incredible a misuse of religious feeling and sybology as the radical Islam that they have made our enemiy.
Thee worry about terrorists with the bomb, while the rest of the world worries about them with the bomb...
The United States is led by an ideological cabal with a strong Apocalyptic current coursing through its veins--as incredible a misuse of religious feeling and sybology as the radical Islam that they have made our enemiy.
Thee worry about terrorists with the bomb, while the rest of the world worries about them with the bomb...
alexa
somewhere in time
Enemy for eternity. USA will never find peace ever again. USA's governement failed on history class.BluejayWay said:
S
Sacredstar
Guest
Every great nation has destoryed itself with its own hand through transgression of the universal laws.
Thou shall not kill!
in thought, word or deed
Thou shall not control and dominate nature itself.
The UK now have a choice to make in the next general election. I did some research on the net and discovered that a majority if respondents had moved away from political parties. They were saying that they intend to vote for the best man for the job in their local area, so the outcome of the next election here will be very interesting. My view is that whoever votes for a warmonger has blood on their own hands......
My response to the recent US election
CHRIST THE LIONHEART
As the shock of the US elections ripples around the world, the disbelief and heartache for every life that has been lost. I now understand what it means to be a Lion Heart! Around the world the passion of Christ roars within US, for injustice and corruption to be eliminated, for the people's voice at the grass roots to be heard, and for US domination of world events to cease.
The Christ message that springs from the well within me, for those spiritual people in the US that are preaching to the rest of the world is this: -
“Please get your own house and country in order before you preach to us!”
Europe is uniting against any single super power, please join us and yield to peace, freedom and equality for all humankind. Communicating from the heart of compassion, and across all frontiers, or choose to stand alone against the rest of the world.
We now prepare to begin the campaign for the UK elections and the message is very clear, use your vote to back Blair , and his warmongers, and you have blood on your hands as a partner in crime. For there is no separation, we are one in creation and each individual has a responsibility for every life that is lost needlessly, every child that is drugged, abused, or depressed, each voice must be heard.
May the results in the US inspire us all, to make the best choice, our choices effect group consciousness and the future of humanity and our children’s lives.
So vote for no more ‘wake up calls’, no more war, no more tragedy, no more pollution, no more alliances with power hungry, profiteering, warmongers like Bush, who performs his monstrosities in full view while wrapping himself in the cloths of piety and righteousness. Thou shall not kill!
When a child oversteps the boundaries it is the parent’s responsibility to help the child to understand how and why. Now it is time for Bush and his followers to hear our message louder then before; we shall not support you in war anymore! Please put down your gun, stop dropping your bombs, and hear the message of the world.
Here in the UK we can now learn from the US elections and vote for equality, freedom, peace, justice, and unity consciousness, to bring forth the principles of the heart. We can overcome difficulties through communication, trust, balance, harmony, sharing, caring and the power of love.
Let us all walk our talk with Christ the Lion Heart and state that enough is enough! We will energise people to innovate change, GOD’s will-to-good, compelled by love into compassionate action. Let us all swim in unison and BE the saving force. Let the flock come together in positive conscious intent and create the world we wish it to be:-
A Kingdom of Love.
Peace be with you all,
Sacredstar
Thou shall not kill!
in thought, word or deed
Thou shall not control and dominate nature itself.
The UK now have a choice to make in the next general election. I did some research on the net and discovered that a majority if respondents had moved away from political parties. They were saying that they intend to vote for the best man for the job in their local area, so the outcome of the next election here will be very interesting. My view is that whoever votes for a warmonger has blood on their own hands......
My response to the recent US election
CHRIST THE LIONHEART
As the shock of the US elections ripples around the world, the disbelief and heartache for every life that has been lost. I now understand what it means to be a Lion Heart! Around the world the passion of Christ roars within US, for injustice and corruption to be eliminated, for the people's voice at the grass roots to be heard, and for US domination of world events to cease.
The Christ message that springs from the well within me, for those spiritual people in the US that are preaching to the rest of the world is this: -
“Please get your own house and country in order before you preach to us!”
Europe is uniting against any single super power, please join us and yield to peace, freedom and equality for all humankind. Communicating from the heart of compassion, and across all frontiers, or choose to stand alone against the rest of the world.
We now prepare to begin the campaign for the UK elections and the message is very clear, use your vote to back Blair , and his warmongers, and you have blood on your hands as a partner in crime. For there is no separation, we are one in creation and each individual has a responsibility for every life that is lost needlessly, every child that is drugged, abused, or depressed, each voice must be heard.
May the results in the US inspire us all, to make the best choice, our choices effect group consciousness and the future of humanity and our children’s lives.
So vote for no more ‘wake up calls’, no more war, no more tragedy, no more pollution, no more alliances with power hungry, profiteering, warmongers like Bush, who performs his monstrosities in full view while wrapping himself in the cloths of piety and righteousness. Thou shall not kill!
When a child oversteps the boundaries it is the parent’s responsibility to help the child to understand how and why. Now it is time for Bush and his followers to hear our message louder then before; we shall not support you in war anymore! Please put down your gun, stop dropping your bombs, and hear the message of the world.
Here in the UK we can now learn from the US elections and vote for equality, freedom, peace, justice, and unity consciousness, to bring forth the principles of the heart. We can overcome difficulties through communication, trust, balance, harmony, sharing, caring and the power of love.
Let us all walk our talk with Christ the Lion Heart and state that enough is enough! We will energise people to innovate change, GOD’s will-to-good, compelled by love into compassionate action. Let us all swim in unison and BE the saving force. Let the flock come together in positive conscious intent and create the world we wish it to be:-
A Kingdom of Love.
Peace be with you all,
Sacredstar
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste all,
interesting thread.
not that it's all that surprising to see the type of political views that we have here, this is an international forum after all.
i, oddly, have a much different view that has been expressed here thus far.
far from unwinnable is the Iraq situation, in my estimation. though i suppose it may depend on what we deem the word "winnable" to actually mean
for my take, this terms signifies the establishment of a democratically elected Iraqi government with full sovernigty. i'm not sure what others may mean when they use this term.
of course, i fundamentally disagree with SacredStars assesment that if you vote for someone that commits a crime you are equally guilty. that is the type of thinking that was prevelant back in Goatama Buddhas day... he stood against it then, and i stand against it now.
each being is responsble for their own actions. nobody elses. as i said, i've a different view on these things.
my view of military action is, also, not consonant with my Buddhist religious views... i'm more of a Taoist with regards to pragmatic military matters.
in any event, i see several strategems that could lead to "winning" as i've described the term above. it simply remains to be seen which of these strategies is most viable. the tactical sitation is very fluid right now, however, the overall strategic situtation hasn't changed much in the past 8 years or so, in my view.
interesting thread.
not that it's all that surprising to see the type of political views that we have here, this is an international forum after all.
i, oddly, have a much different view that has been expressed here thus far.
far from unwinnable is the Iraq situation, in my estimation. though i suppose it may depend on what we deem the word "winnable" to actually mean
for my take, this terms signifies the establishment of a democratically elected Iraqi government with full sovernigty. i'm not sure what others may mean when they use this term.
of course, i fundamentally disagree with SacredStars assesment that if you vote for someone that commits a crime you are equally guilty. that is the type of thinking that was prevelant back in Goatama Buddhas day... he stood against it then, and i stand against it now.
each being is responsble for their own actions. nobody elses. as i said, i've a different view on these things.
my view of military action is, also, not consonant with my Buddhist religious views... i'm more of a Taoist with regards to pragmatic military matters.
in any event, i see several strategems that could lead to "winning" as i've described the term above. it simply remains to be seen which of these strategies is most viable. the tactical sitation is very fluid right now, however, the overall strategic situtation hasn't changed much in the past 8 years or so, in my view.
S
Sacredstar
Guest
Dear Vajradhara
How do you reconcile the difference between being responsible for one's own actions and also being interdependent of each other?
E.g we are all ONE in group consciousness, so what the individual chooses then impacts like a pebble in the pond reverberating out much further afield.
Creating not only individual karma but also group/country karma?
Another analogy a mother buys the food with her best intent, but yet her family are allergic to this food and they become very ill?
Who is responsible for the family and the ill-health of the community that she shares?
We are all part of the community, one large planetary family are we not?
being love
Sacredstar
How do you reconcile the difference between being responsible for one's own actions and also being interdependent of each other?
E.g we are all ONE in group consciousness, so what the individual chooses then impacts like a pebble in the pond reverberating out much further afield.
Creating not only individual karma but also group/country karma?
Another analogy a mother buys the food with her best intent, but yet her family are allergic to this food and they become very ill?
Who is responsible for the family and the ill-health of the community that she shares?
We are all part of the community, one large planetary family are we not?
being love
Sacredstar
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste Sacredstar,
thank you for the post.
in any case, there is no possible way to determine this information, from the Buddhist vis a vie the view of karma. since karma will go from rebirth to rebirth, it's quite possible that the right causes and conditions for a particular karmic seed to ripen will not be present for many lifetimes. when they are, it ripens. we are not really able to see the karmic consquences of our actions that extend through multiple lives until we are more awake.
so... in an Absolute sense, i'd say that yes, we are one large planetary family. in the Relative sense, no.
in any event... in my experience, many Western folks have a rather romantic understanding of Buddhism and so forth. often they ascribe thoughts and ideas to us that are completely foreign! it can be amusing, when you're in the right frame of mind.
the Buddha was not a idealistic dreamer living in a fantasy world. far from it. he was a pragmatist that lived fully in the world of everyday concerns.
the important point to bear in mind, from the Buddhist view at least, is that it's not simply actions that carry karmic reprucussions, it's a specific type of action. intentional action.
you'll note, undoubtedly, that it is rather difficult to actually discern someones true intention in any given situation, let alone a situation as fraught with potential peril as politics.
the Buddha was not opposed to violence for the sake of being opposed to it or for some higher moral imperative. the Buddhist teaching is that refraining from violence helps one make progress along the spiritual path more quickly.
wow... we're way off the topic of this thread now.. and i feel rather poor about the derailing!
thank you for the post.
i suppose that i don't see the issue. each person is responsible for their own actions, e.g. the actions which they intend. they are, if you will, the seeds that we plant in our own garden. nobody else reaps the fruit of the seeds that we plant. in short, Buddhist interdependence isn't the same as understood in Western materialists philosophies.Sacredstar said:
this would more properly be a Sanatan Dharma view (Hindu). Buddhism does not posit that there is a single, collective consciousness from which our individual consciousnesses are part.
karma is created on an individual level, a group level, a city level, a country level and a world level. karma is intentional action. if a large group of people all commit the same intentional action, that creates "group" karma for them. however, each being therein does not reap the fruit of their shared karma the same, as this is a function of several other factors and is mitigated by ones' praxis.
she has a family with a food allergy which she's unaware of?
in any case, there is no possible way to determine this information, from the Buddhist vis a vie the view of karma. since karma will go from rebirth to rebirth, it's quite possible that the right causes and conditions for a particular karmic seed to ripen will not be present for many lifetimes. when they are, it ripens. we are not really able to see the karmic consquences of our actions that extend through multiple lives until we are more awake.
it depends on how you mean this. remember, in the Buddhist teachings, Two Truths, we declare there to be, Relative and Absolute. what you and i are discussing is soley in the realm of the Relative for that is where our words are. they can never be anything but in the relative. the Absolute is beyond our ability to properly verbalize and, perhaps, cognize.. it is, as they say, an ineffable experience.
so... in an Absolute sense, i'd say that yes, we are one large planetary family. in the Relative sense, no.
in any event... in my experience, many Western folks have a rather romantic understanding of Buddhism and so forth. often they ascribe thoughts and ideas to us that are completely foreign! it can be amusing, when you're in the right frame of mind.
the Buddha was not a idealistic dreamer living in a fantasy world. far from it. he was a pragmatist that lived fully in the world of everyday concerns.
the important point to bear in mind, from the Buddhist view at least, is that it's not simply actions that carry karmic reprucussions, it's a specific type of action. intentional action.
you'll note, undoubtedly, that it is rather difficult to actually discern someones true intention in any given situation, let alone a situation as fraught with potential peril as politics.
the Buddha was not opposed to violence for the sake of being opposed to it or for some higher moral imperative. the Buddhist teaching is that refraining from violence helps one make progress along the spiritual path more quickly.
wow... we're way off the topic of this thread now.. and i feel rather poor about the derailing!
S
Sacredstar
Guest
Dear Vajradhara
Thank you for the further explanation. I feel that Karma is important to the topic so once again thank you for sharing more insights.
A friend attended a recent talk by the Dalai Lama in Liverpool and I feel sure she said that he was talking about the community in terms of group consciousness and the impact of our individual action and intent.
How will Buddhists respond if at all to the cutting edge science that is proving many of these concepts?
Love beyond measure
Sacredstar
Thank you for the further explanation. I feel that Karma is important to the topic so once again thank you for sharing more insights.
A friend attended a recent talk by the Dalai Lama in Liverpool and I feel sure she said that he was talking about the community in terms of group consciousness and the impact of our individual action and intent.
How will Buddhists respond if at all to the cutting edge science that is proving many of these concepts?
Love beyond measure
Sacredstar
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste SacredStar,
thank you for the post.
Buddhism has no issues with changing it's teachings to more accurately reflect the world in which we find ourselves.
Buddhism rejected the atomist theory a long time ago, for instance. the atomist theory being that all matter is comprised of tiny, inseprable bits, call Atoms. our modern science has refuted the atomist view completely and, as a consequence, rather supported the Buddhist view in this area.
in the end it's really not an issue for us. Buddhism has no teachings to cling to and no dogma to die for. not to say that some people don't feel this way, however, Buddhism isn't really like that.
that being said, i'm not aware of any peer reviewed scientific journals that are publishing material that validates a "universal" consciousness. do you have some links that i can review or some books that may contain these peer reviewed scientific experiments?
thank you for the post.
we changeSacredstar said:
Buddhism has no issues with changing it's teachings to more accurately reflect the world in which we find ourselves. Buddhism rejected the atomist theory a long time ago, for instance. the atomist theory being that all matter is comprised of tiny, inseprable bits, call Atoms. our modern science has refuted the atomist view completely and, as a consequence, rather supported the Buddhist view in this area.
in the end it's really not an issue for us. Buddhism has no teachings to cling to and no dogma to die for. not to say that some people don't feel this way, however, Buddhism isn't really like that.
that being said, i'm not aware of any peer reviewed scientific journals that are publishing material that validates a "universal" consciousness. do you have some links that i can review or some books that may contain these peer reviewed scientific experiments?
S
Sacredstar
Guest
Dear Vajradhara
Great thank you, yes that as been my understanding of Buddhism so thank you for the confirmation.
On the science William Tiller and the work going on at Princeton is really the cutting edge work. I am not a science expert so I will email our science and medical consultant and get back to you.
Love beyond measure
Sacredstar
Great thank you, yes that as been my understanding of Buddhism so thank you for the confirmation.
On the science William Tiller and the work going on at Princeton is really the cutting edge work. I am not a science expert so I will email our science and medical consultant and get back to you.
Love beyond measure
Sacredstar
S
Sacredstar
Guest
S
Sacredstar
Guest
This is also very interesting
On 9/11, the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research institute found that a significant measurement perturbation, or change, was noted by their 32 data recording instruments placed around the world - a couple of hours BEFORE the first plane struck the World Trade Center. Inspired by this indication that a field of mass consciousness exists, Bell and his then guest host, George Noory, had issued specific requests to their vast audience, challenging their listeners to act collectively in the field of consciousness - in order to achieve specific outcomes. At the time of this writing, the last such challenge was for the audience to visualize a resolution to the Washington "Sniper Crisis." The two suspects who are now in custody were arrested in the early morning hours immediately following this show. No one was injured in the capture.
On 9/11, the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research institute found that a significant measurement perturbation, or change, was noted by their 32 data recording instruments placed around the world - a couple of hours BEFORE the first plane struck the World Trade Center. Inspired by this indication that a field of mass consciousness exists, Bell and his then guest host, George Noory, had issued specific requests to their vast audience, challenging their listeners to act collectively in the field of consciousness - in order to achieve specific outcomes. At the time of this writing, the last such challenge was for the audience to visualize a resolution to the Washington "Sniper Crisis." The two suspects who are now in custody were arrested in the early morning hours immediately following this show. No one was injured in the capture.
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste sacredstar,
thank you for the post and the link.
hmm... it seems to me that the study is implying that concsiousness acts as a non-local field.
this is rather different than saying that there is a universal, single, consciousness of which we are all part.
i really have no issues with consciousness and non-locality.. in point of fact, that is a fairly decent view of how some of our philosophical schools posit consciousness and, predicated on the EPR Paradox experiments, i think that we have empirical proof that, aspects at least, of consciousness operate in this fashion.
thank you for the post and the link.
hmm... it seems to me that the study is implying that concsiousness acts as a non-local field.
this is rather different than saying that there is a universal, single, consciousness of which we are all part.
i really have no issues with consciousness and non-locality.. in point of fact, that is a fairly decent view of how some of our philosophical schools posit consciousness and, predicated on the EPR Paradox experiments, i think that we have empirical proof that, aspects at least, of consciousness operate in this fashion.
Virtual_Cliff
Well-Known Member
That is democracy though. Government for the people, BY THE PEOPLE etc. If our government is misbehaving, it is our fault. In a dictatorship there is some excuse. If we really all believed and campaigned hard enough we could have a peaceful government. This is often repeated but still needs to be remembered: all that is needed for evil (whatever) to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Another world is possible.Vajradhara said:
Vajradhara
One of Many
Namaste Virtual_Cliff,
thank you for the post.
so... is it your position that if, say Ted Kennedy commits check fraud, that you should pay his debt, serve his time in jail, rather than Ted reaping the consequences of his actions?
if a person in the government misbehaves, who's responsible for that behavior, you or the person comitting the action?
thank you for the post.
hmm.Virtual_Cliff said:
so... is it your position that if, say Ted Kennedy commits check fraud, that you should pay his debt, serve his time in jail, rather than Ted reaping the consequences of his actions?
perhaps. i've never been an adherent of group punishment nor of the child inheriting the crimes/sins of the father, though i'm congnizant that lots of Western folks think this is a keen idea.
if a person in the government misbehaves, who's responsible for that behavior, you or the person comitting the action?
Namaste Vajradhara
I don't think this is such a crazy idea. I think its pretty realistic. It isn't collective punishment that if one english person kills someone then all english people are murdurers. It is an attempt to make people be caring and respectful towards each other.
What I think Virtual_Cliff was saying wasn't that if Tony Blair takes us to war we SHOULD all be to blame but that if Tony Blair takes us to war we ARE all to blame or that we Are responsible. IMO If no-one questions the government then the peoples intrests will always come last.
Peace
I don't know who Ted Kennedy is but if someone commits check fraud (In England) who do you think pays for him to be kept in prison? Or who pays for the victims of car crashes to be cared for in Hospital. The public do in their Taxes. Thats the fundemenatal principal of the welfare system. We all look after each other and tell each other off if we do something bad.Vajradhara said:
I don't think this is such a crazy idea. I think its pretty realistic. It isn't collective punishment that if one english person kills someone then all english people are murdurers. It is an attempt to make people be caring and respectful towards each other.
What I think Virtual_Cliff was saying wasn't that if Tony Blair takes us to war we SHOULD all be to blame but that if Tony Blair takes us to war we ARE all to blame or that we Are responsible. IMO If no-one questions the government then the peoples intrests will always come last.
Peace
My opinion of the Iraq war is this:
It is not in the intrests of the Iraqi people.
This is because of a few reasons.
1. is that I know a bit about american history and I know how they exploit countries and support dictators across Latin America.
2. The Bush administration supported Saddam Hussein in previous years so I don't know for sure but I weigh up the probiblities and say that they did not go to war in Iraq to end his regime.
I also think that the bush administration and a bit blair are not people we can trust with the risks of going to War. War is not a joke it is not a game or a economic statistic it is a very destructive thing. Something that needs to be planned very well, if it is to be in the interests of the Iraqi people. Which I don't think has happened in this situation. This is one reason why I don't think we can trust Blair and bush - beacuse they didn't plan the war.
2. because I have looked with my eyes and heard with ears that Bush and Blair have intentionally tried to scare the public. They have been active in a programme of non-disscussion and blind following. They scare us with the threats of Al Quaida and Terrorists but the facts are that England have been under terrorist threat before. London is used to bombings and attacks Why are there no bins at Kings Cross Train Station? The IRA? How quickly we forget the past.
3. Blair said that we should go to WAr because there are Weapons of mass destruction. The public didn't. He did. I don't think anyone was under the impression that Saddam Hussein had weapons of Mass Destruction other than Blair and his clan. Then it turns out after that there weren't any. A fact. There weren't any weapons of mass in Iraq before we Attacked.
Why then can Fox News in the USA, how dare it have the nerve, to say that SADDAM HAS NUCLEAR BOMBS, DEFINATE. It wasn't definate. It was a lie it was a fairytale. It was an excuse to try and make the War legal in international laws.
Some people ask "why does it matter? Saddam was Bad and we should get rid of him".
I answer a question with a question ans ask "Does the means justify the end?"
That is Terrorism is it not. George Bush by his own standards should be labelled a terrorist, seriously. He is fighting a war on terror but at the moment he is spreading terror himself. He says he is a chrsitian but what did Jesus say?
I would like to end by saying that I went to Germany and I saw a monument for all those MPs who had stood up to Hitler and lost their lives. I think this makes our British MPs look Pathetic. What mentality are they in? that when someone says "we should go to war" but they don't have any reasons except one which they can't prove, that you will neglect all the influences I have stated already and blindly follow because you don't want to put your Career under threat. Its not like Blairs going to get you killed if you dissagree with the war in Iraq. I'm don't mean to blame all British MPs just the ones that sheepishly followed Blair.
I wonder what kind of shananigans Bush will get up to in his next term.
I am positive that many people on this forum will disagree with the views I have expressed on this Post so I am prepared to disscuss them.
Peace
It is not in the intrests of the Iraqi people.
This is because of a few reasons.
1. is that I know a bit about american history and I know how they exploit countries and support dictators across Latin America.
2. The Bush administration supported Saddam Hussein in previous years so I don't know for sure but I weigh up the probiblities and say that they did not go to war in Iraq to end his regime.
I also think that the bush administration and a bit blair are not people we can trust with the risks of going to War. War is not a joke it is not a game or a economic statistic it is a very destructive thing. Something that needs to be planned very well, if it is to be in the interests of the Iraqi people. Which I don't think has happened in this situation. This is one reason why I don't think we can trust Blair and bush - beacuse they didn't plan the war.
2. because I have looked with my eyes and heard with ears that Bush and Blair have intentionally tried to scare the public. They have been active in a programme of non-disscussion and blind following. They scare us with the threats of Al Quaida and Terrorists but the facts are that England have been under terrorist threat before. London is used to bombings and attacks Why are there no bins at Kings Cross Train Station? The IRA? How quickly we forget the past.
3. Blair said that we should go to WAr because there are Weapons of mass destruction. The public didn't. He did. I don't think anyone was under the impression that Saddam Hussein had weapons of Mass Destruction other than Blair and his clan. Then it turns out after that there weren't any. A fact. There weren't any weapons of mass in Iraq before we Attacked.
Why then can Fox News in the USA, how dare it have the nerve, to say that SADDAM HAS NUCLEAR BOMBS, DEFINATE. It wasn't definate. It was a lie it was a fairytale. It was an excuse to try and make the War legal in international laws.
Some people ask "why does it matter? Saddam was Bad and we should get rid of him".
I answer a question with a question ans ask "Does the means justify the end?"
That is Terrorism is it not. George Bush by his own standards should be labelled a terrorist, seriously. He is fighting a war on terror but at the moment he is spreading terror himself. He says he is a chrsitian but what did Jesus say?
Does Bush show a good example of loving Al-Quaida? yeah right. What kind of Chrsitianity does he follow? Is it like the kind of Islam that breeds Al Quaida?
I would like to end by saying that I went to Germany and I saw a monument for all those MPs who had stood up to Hitler and lost their lives. I think this makes our British MPs look Pathetic. What mentality are they in? that when someone says "we should go to war" but they don't have any reasons except one which they can't prove, that you will neglect all the influences I have stated already and blindly follow because you don't want to put your Career under threat. Its not like Blairs going to get you killed if you dissagree with the war in Iraq. I'm don't mean to blame all British MPs just the ones that sheepishly followed Blair.
I wonder what kind of shananigans Bush will get up to in his next term.
I am positive that many people on this forum will disagree with the views I have expressed on this Post so I am prepared to disscuss them.
Peace
S
Sacredstar
Guest
Dear Kaspar
I agree with everything that you say and now, in the new year the British people have the opportunity to vote with their feet, a general election is likely for May 2005.
This was my published response to the Bush re-election.
CHRIST THE LIONHEART
As the shock of the US elections ripples around the world, the disbelief and heartache for every life that has been lost. I now understand what it means to be a Lion Heart! Around the world the passion of Christ roars within US, for injustice and corruption to be eliminated, for the people's voice at the grass roots to be heard, and for US domination of world events to cease.
The Christ message that springs from the well within me, for those spiritual people in the US that are preaching to the rest of the world is this: -
“Please get your own house and country in order before you preach to us!”
Europe is uniting against any single super power, please join us and yield to peace, freedom and equality for all humankind. Communicating from the heart of compassion, and across all frontiers, or choose to stand alone against the rest of the world.
We now prepare to begin the campaign for the UK elections and the message is very clear, use your vote to back Blair , and his warmongers, and you have blood on your hands as a partner in crime. For there is no separation, we are one in creation and each individual has a responsibility for every life that is lost needlessly, every child that is drugged, abused, or depressed, each voice must be heard.
May the results in the US inspire us all, to make the best choice, our choices effect group consciousness and the future of humanity and our children’s lives.
So vote for no more ‘wake up calls’, no more war, no more tragedy, no more pollution, no more alliances with power hungry, profiteering, warmongers like Bush, who performs his monstrosities in full view while wrapping himself in the cloths of piety and righteousness. Thou shall not kill!
When a child oversteps the boundaries it is the parent’s responsibility to help the child to understand how and why. Now it is time for Bush and his followers to hear our message louder then before; we shall not support you in war anymore! Please put down your gun, stop dropping your bombs, and hear the message of the world.
Here in the UK we can now learn from the US elections and vote for equality, freedom, peace, justice, and unity consciousness, to bring forth the principles of the heart. We can overcome difficulties through communication, trust, balance, harmony, sharing, caring and the power of love.
Let us all walk our talk with Christ the Lion Heart and state that enough is enough! We will energise people to innovate change, GOD’s will-to-good, compelled by love into compassionate action. Let us all swim in unison and BE the saving force. Let the flock come together in positive conscious intent and create the world we wish it to be:-
A Kingdom of Love.
Peace be with you all,
Sacredstar
I agree with everything that you say and now, in the new year the British people have the opportunity to vote with their feet, a general election is likely for May 2005.
This was my published response to the Bush re-election.
CHRIST THE LIONHEART
As the shock of the US elections ripples around the world, the disbelief and heartache for every life that has been lost. I now understand what it means to be a Lion Heart! Around the world the passion of Christ roars within US, for injustice and corruption to be eliminated, for the people's voice at the grass roots to be heard, and for US domination of world events to cease.
The Christ message that springs from the well within me, for those spiritual people in the US that are preaching to the rest of the world is this: -
“Please get your own house and country in order before you preach to us!”
Europe is uniting against any single super power, please join us and yield to peace, freedom and equality for all humankind. Communicating from the heart of compassion, and across all frontiers, or choose to stand alone against the rest of the world.
We now prepare to begin the campaign for the UK elections and the message is very clear, use your vote to back Blair , and his warmongers, and you have blood on your hands as a partner in crime. For there is no separation, we are one in creation and each individual has a responsibility for every life that is lost needlessly, every child that is drugged, abused, or depressed, each voice must be heard.
May the results in the US inspire us all, to make the best choice, our choices effect group consciousness and the future of humanity and our children’s lives.
So vote for no more ‘wake up calls’, no more war, no more tragedy, no more pollution, no more alliances with power hungry, profiteering, warmongers like Bush, who performs his monstrosities in full view while wrapping himself in the cloths of piety and righteousness. Thou shall not kill!
When a child oversteps the boundaries it is the parent’s responsibility to help the child to understand how and why. Now it is time for Bush and his followers to hear our message louder then before; we shall not support you in war anymore! Please put down your gun, stop dropping your bombs, and hear the message of the world.
Here in the UK we can now learn from the US elections and vote for equality, freedom, peace, justice, and unity consciousness, to bring forth the principles of the heart. We can overcome difficulties through communication, trust, balance, harmony, sharing, caring and the power of love.
Let us all walk our talk with Christ the Lion Heart and state that enough is enough! We will energise people to innovate change, GOD’s will-to-good, compelled by love into compassionate action. Let us all swim in unison and BE the saving force. Let the flock come together in positive conscious intent and create the world we wish it to be:-
A Kingdom of Love.
Peace be with you all,
Sacredstar
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Greetings
I was tempted to post on this subject but it seems to me that too many believe all the anti-American anti-Bush propaganda that gets spewed out daily.
Many people lost friends and family on 9/11 Im speaking from an American viewpoint. I know that tragically people lose the same all over the world on a daily basis. But that just does NOT happen here. IT has terrified us to have the feeling of being cornered. To know that we are infested with a group of people that wish us mortal harm, is frightening. Im not speaking as an American Im not speaking as a Christian even Im speaking as a Mother and a Sister and a Daughter and a Niece. Im speaking as a human being thats afraid of the boogeyman.
This is a REAL emotion of mine.
I can pray and trust my God to protect Me and Mine.. and ask for the continual blessings that my nation has had in the past, But there is still that INSTINCT to survive and defend yourself that God put in us for one reason or another.
We had to take Saddan out. Any reason could be listed and it could be argued but it was felt that he had to be taken out. There is also the belief that we should have done it in Desert Storm but we didnt and that was probably the mistake of a lifetime. Now we have our men there trying to maintain some sort of order in a completely disorderly situation so they can establish their own government so we can LEAVE! It wasnt supposed to be a war it was supposed to be move in take out a boogeyman and leave. Noone anticipated that it would take this long or that so many lives would be lost on both sides. People think its about the oil!! the OIL?! are you kidding me?? Do you know how much fossil fuel we have UNTAPPED in Alaska? I've heard alot of people making comments that sounded soooo very much like Michael Moore's propaganda film Farenheit 9/11... you'd think the man was Christ and he spoke directly from God from the way the world has responded to it.
I completely respect the intelligence Ive seen on this forum Ive respected the craving for knowledge Ive seen that would cause one to ask another "what do you think?" What has disheartened me is that people will read one side of THIS issue and without care or thought they wouldnt consider the other side and what they may think or what they have experienced. Or even look at the facts given the other side without a biased view.
Will we win this? I dont know. I hope that we can get out quickly so that lives can be spared. Would we do it again? Probably. Was it heavy-handed? Yes. Was it justified? Can anyone justify violence? No
You know what I remember so very clearly after 9/11? They were showing a reporter interviewing Muslims in the Middle East. The question was asked... do you think the Al Qaida had anything to do with this.. It was unanimous that they believed that We did it ourselves so we could blame the Muslims for it....
Then I watched a documentary called 9/11 which showed a man who was initially filming a nearby firestation when they first plane hit.. he went into the world trade center with that firehouse and you could hear people jumping from the upper floors and hitting the ground and the sound of that is the most horrible sound you could ever hear. Some of those firemen that went in with that man never came out. Watching the people outside walking in a daze like they were dreaming. Men and women crying with papers flying around covering everything.
Hearing the wife tell her story that was talking to her husband right as the tower collapsed.. He was telling her he loved her and he would see her as soon as he got out of there.. then nothing...........
Then hearing the wife who was talking on the phone with her husband in Pennsylvania He was telling her he loved her for the last time. He told her they were fighting back. That plane fell short of its destination.
Then hearing the President speak telling his country that they would hunt down and elimiate ALL terrorism. Not just Al Qaida.. he meant ALL. Right there that inspired loyalty in many Americans. He didnt just say it was a tragic act and leave it at that.. He said he would act and he did. And he has never once gone back on that word from the moment he said it he has continously worked at making sure this country was safe even going against the worlds popularity contest.
You blame fundamentalists on his re-election? You also need to blame those Americans that felt his dedication to this country. You could never EVER tell these people that it was because of OIL.
Will we win this war? If its a war on terrorism and tyranny. I hope so.
Well I wasnt going to post on this subject. I was wrong.
Faithful Servant
A Proud American
I was tempted to post on this subject but it seems to me that too many believe all the anti-American anti-Bush propaganda that gets spewed out daily.
Many people lost friends and family on 9/11 Im speaking from an American viewpoint. I know that tragically people lose the same all over the world on a daily basis. But that just does NOT happen here. IT has terrified us to have the feeling of being cornered. To know that we are infested with a group of people that wish us mortal harm, is frightening. Im not speaking as an American Im not speaking as a Christian even Im speaking as a Mother and a Sister and a Daughter and a Niece. Im speaking as a human being thats afraid of the boogeyman.
This is a REAL emotion of mine.
I can pray and trust my God to protect Me and Mine.. and ask for the continual blessings that my nation has had in the past, But there is still that INSTINCT to survive and defend yourself that God put in us for one reason or another.
We had to take Saddan out. Any reason could be listed and it could be argued but it was felt that he had to be taken out. There is also the belief that we should have done it in Desert Storm but we didnt and that was probably the mistake of a lifetime. Now we have our men there trying to maintain some sort of order in a completely disorderly situation so they can establish their own government so we can LEAVE! It wasnt supposed to be a war it was supposed to be move in take out a boogeyman and leave. Noone anticipated that it would take this long or that so many lives would be lost on both sides. People think its about the oil!! the OIL?! are you kidding me?? Do you know how much fossil fuel we have UNTAPPED in Alaska? I've heard alot of people making comments that sounded soooo very much like Michael Moore's propaganda film Farenheit 9/11... you'd think the man was Christ and he spoke directly from God from the way the world has responded to it.
I completely respect the intelligence Ive seen on this forum Ive respected the craving for knowledge Ive seen that would cause one to ask another "what do you think?" What has disheartened me is that people will read one side of THIS issue and without care or thought they wouldnt consider the other side and what they may think or what they have experienced. Or even look at the facts given the other side without a biased view.
Will we win this? I dont know. I hope that we can get out quickly so that lives can be spared. Would we do it again? Probably. Was it heavy-handed? Yes. Was it justified? Can anyone justify violence? No
You know what I remember so very clearly after 9/11? They were showing a reporter interviewing Muslims in the Middle East. The question was asked... do you think the Al Qaida had anything to do with this.. It was unanimous that they believed that We did it ourselves so we could blame the Muslims for it....
Then I watched a documentary called 9/11 which showed a man who was initially filming a nearby firestation when they first plane hit.. he went into the world trade center with that firehouse and you could hear people jumping from the upper floors and hitting the ground and the sound of that is the most horrible sound you could ever hear. Some of those firemen that went in with that man never came out. Watching the people outside walking in a daze like they were dreaming. Men and women crying with papers flying around covering everything.
Hearing the wife tell her story that was talking to her husband right as the tower collapsed.. He was telling her he loved her and he would see her as soon as he got out of there.. then nothing...........
Then hearing the wife who was talking on the phone with her husband in Pennsylvania He was telling her he loved her for the last time. He told her they were fighting back. That plane fell short of its destination.
Then hearing the President speak telling his country that they would hunt down and elimiate ALL terrorism. Not just Al Qaida.. he meant ALL. Right there that inspired loyalty in many Americans. He didnt just say it was a tragic act and leave it at that.. He said he would act and he did. And he has never once gone back on that word from the moment he said it he has continously worked at making sure this country was safe even going against the worlds popularity contest.
You blame fundamentalists on his re-election? You also need to blame those Americans that felt his dedication to this country. You could never EVER tell these people that it was because of OIL.
Will we win this war? If its a war on terrorism and tyranny. I hope so.
Well I wasnt going to post on this subject. I was wrong.
Faithful Servant
A Proud American