Gravity-time and Gravity-space.

Discussion in 'Science and the Universe' started by isocratus, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. isocratus

    isocratus Member

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    Gravity-time, Gravity-space.
    ===…
    We speak the word "time" without concrete scientific definition.
    Therefore our knowledge about "time" is foggy.
    But if we say "gravity-time" then the fog is disappeared because
    for us there isn't another "time" expect the "gravity-time".
    We don't use light- travel- time
    ( so- called 1 Astronomical Unit) in our daily life.
    ==..
    The same "fog" is with the word "space".
    For us there isn't another "space" expect the "gravity- space".
    We don't use another spaces in our daily life.
    ==..
    The conceptions "time" and "space" are property of Gravity.
    Without gravity there isn't "time", there isn't "space".
    ===…
    The discussion about "time" and "space" without Gravity is tautology.
    ===…
     
  2. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    not to throw a damper into your thesis, but time, by all accounts exists without gravity. in zeroG people still have a sense that time is passing, because it is not variable. If it were based on gravity, the sense and attitude of the unit would change instantly in zeroG situations, and for that matter any multiple of Gravity. 1AU isn't a measure of time, and furthers my point. Lightyear, AU, etc. is a measure of distance. The distance a beam of light will travel in 1 year. This distance can be debated, but is pretty generally accepted. The time is (with few exceptions of scientist debate) considered one of the constants among variables. Mass is the other. (complete energy units is becoming widely talked about as well, but falls pretty neatly into mass) Space is defined as a area of volume that is not changing. 1 L of space is always 1 L regardless of gravity. again gravity doesn't effect space. So where does gravity fall into this. Well, it is a derivative of the 2 properties you claim are controlled by gravity. Time and space. Gravity is a mere acceleration. Caused by forces of attraction (magnetism) between bodies (earth, mass, moon, sun, planets, centrifugal motion, etc.). Einstein predicted that if we were able to go faster than the speed of light, we would be effecting time, and he could be right as mathmatics seems to agree. I disagree, but that's just me. I have my reasons to doubt that we will ever produce the ability to travel at that speed.

    Please do go on, you have a hell of a thesis to write to explain why all physics ever used is based on a unit that is changing per gravity. And even moreso that space is itself dependent on gravity.
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I believe we do know that gravity warps the light around planets/stars.... gravity and magnetism are different things... and haven't we already found something exceeding the speed of light?
     
  4. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    true.
    only because gravity encompasses magnetism. There are many factors to gravity. The largest being a pull between 2 objects to one another (very similar to Magnetism). This is highly debated among scientific communities on the exact nature of gravity. but the effect on time, not so much

    not to my knowledge. I don't find it impossible for something out there to outrun it. Just don't find it likely we will.
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    similar to magnetism....not magnetism....not encompassing each other.... magnetism has an attraction/repel feature that gravity does not...gravity exists due to the warp in space/time

    neutrinos.... and probably electrons (in their appear disappear mode)
     
  6. wanderer

    wanderer Active Member

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    Wow, looks like discussion of physics rather than faith, well I'll play too :)
    The particles faster than light are called tachyons and those are theoretical (not found till date).
    Gravity is separate force, not related to magnetism, there are four fundamental forces (more or less), out of which one is gravity, other is electromagnetism.
    And gravity does not encompasses magnetism ( and I am not sure what he meant by encompasses here ;) )
    Hope it clarifies present discussion :)
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    lol encompasses! I didn't catch that at all!! too funny.

    I thought cern saw neutrinos going faster than light...

    for fun I always contemplate that a car, or horse or walking uses some force to push against the earth and move faster than the earth is moving (or slower depending on which way you go).... a boat sits on water, and uses wind to propel itself... using gears and a car frame with a propeller as a sail we can travel downwind faster than the wind... so all we need is a way to ride on a beam of light, at the speed of light and then propel ourcellves off of that... or build a light sail that is propelled at the speed of light to travel faster...
     
  8. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    I'll lend my support to wanderer, I understand as he does.

    I did a quick wiki search of neutrinos and electrons.
    "According to the theory of special relativity, the question of neutrino velocity is closely related to their mass. If neutrinos are massless, they must travel at the speed of light. However, if they have mass, they cannot reach the speed of light."

    "The speed of an electron can approach, but never reach, the speed of light in a vacuum, c. However, when relativistic electrons—that is, electrons moving at a speed close to c—are injected into a dielectric medium such as water, where the local speed of light is significantly less than c, the electrons temporarily travel faster than light in the medium."

    What is this "in their appear disappear mode" wil?
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Physicists, please ...
    I rather thought there was?

    I can see that in an empty universe it would be difficult to measure both time and space, but that's not to say they don't exist, rather they're qualities we ascribe to phenomena? Let alone the fact there wouldn't be an observer in the first place ...

    Why? I thought gravity was a property of mass?
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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  11. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    That was a little much for a slow evening. I only have basic formal education on chemistry and physics but we weren't taught that electrons actually jump from one state to the other but the distance from the nucleus depend on the speed and thus energy of the electron. Add a package of energy and the electron will move farther away from the center but it won't hold a set distance but rather an average distance.

    I just wanted to jot down my understanding if I don't make it back to this thread. If I do make it back I will read up on your link. Knowledge = Good!
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    from my understanding we don't know the speed they travel from one spot to another (I don't even think we know that they do, just that we can't detect them) and because we can't identify that x left here then and appeared their y...one posits the speed is infinite? Hell when I was in school they still had nice little circular valences...and they graded us on science that is no longer valid!
     
  13. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    We had that as well, it was impressed upon us more and more the higher we got that it's a visual tool. Their orbit is more cloud-like. But I'm sure my teacher noted under his breath that this also is a simplified version for the students benefit.

    [​IMG]

    That I was trying to say with the change of speed is that at the moment the electron is agitated (is this the correct terminology?) and change speed it immediately change direction and sets at its new orbit at its new speed. The acceleration is instantaneous but, as I understand it, it's not a jump or teleportation from one place to another.

     
  14. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Gravity most certainly has an effect on time. The heavier the mass or the closer one is to it, the heavier the gravity and the slower time passes. Something as close as our GPS satellites in orbit run slightly faster time than clocks (even atomic clocks) run on the surface of the earth. It's called time dilation. And our satellites can only function properly if this variation in time is taken into effect.

    Another way that time is affected is by velocity, although the situation is reversed. Those living in a condition that is moving faster than on earth (such as a space ship, or the ISS) have actually lived slower compared to someone on the surface. The astronaut is a tiny bit younger than an earthbound counterpart.

    Time is actually more fluid than we might think.
     
  15. isocratus

    isocratus Member

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  16. isocratus

    isocratus Member

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    The Quantum Fabric of Space-Time
    "The smoothly warped space-time landscape that Einstein described is like
    a painting by Salvador Dalí — seamless, unbroken, geometric.
    But the quantum particles that occupy this space are more like something
    from Georges Seurat: pointillist, discrete, described by probabilities.
    At their core, the two descriptions contradict each other."
    https://www.quantamagazine.org/20150424-wormholes-entanglement-firewalls-er-epr/
    ==.
    The modern philosophy of physics is like an abstract art.
    Abstract art is what happened when painters stopped looking at reality
    of nature and expressed their own psychological feeling of it.
    In this way physicists stopped looking at reality of nature and create
    mathematical theories only for the sake of theories and then they say
    "nature is paradoxical" and blame the nature in intricate complication.
    Abstract cleverness of mind only separates the thinker from the nature of reality,
    ===…
     
  17. Kathie Bondar

    Kathie Bondar Author of "Voices from the parallel universe"

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    Telepathy does, many many times
     
  18. buddhitakso

    buddhitakso Member

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    Everything does exist at the same time under present-dynamism only. The projectile movement of time as often experienced by our mind consciousness is purely due to relativity as well as the varying vibrational frequencies in play. As a result, we tend to perceive things a little bit linearly, thus creating the delusion of past, present and future movement of time. The conventional time that we involve ourselves with every day is a subjective and a relative time. This means the time orientation is dependent on the observer (i.e. the subject’s mind) to provide the valuation on the other side of the object or matter. As a consequence, the time conclusion varies among different observers or minds.

    In fact, Albert Einstein has given out an interpretation of spacetime that is actually the endless evolving frequency *** becoming process in Mother Nature. We could liken the frequency to space and the becoming process to time because time is actually a dimension (indicator) for the becoming process and space is merely an expression for energy in play as per frequency (i.e. the number of occurrences or observations within a given time period or statistical category).

    Present-dynamism = frequency x becoming (space x time)

    Once again, time would always arise at the present state of condition. There is no backward or forward movement of time but just a regenerating of occurrences all the time at a common pace of spacetime or present-dynamism. This means in the twinkling of an eye, all events or phenomena as observed by our mind consciousness would fluctuate and renew simultaneously and continuously. Just like the gravity effects on earth for all different masses are the same (acceleration value, g = 9.80 m/s2) even though the rock strikes the ground before the feather per se. However, the common pace of spacetime or present-dynamism is unconjecturable and it is mainly due its nature of beginning-less and end-less. For example, despite the vast differences in the cultural development, the time zone and the locality, a Bushman in Africa and a modern businessman in America are both living concurrently in the 21st century under a common pace of spacetime or present-dynamism. Literally, we could not discriminate or differentiate them by saying that the Bushman is from the past time and the modern businessman is a person living in the future time. The distinguishing factor among them and their respective surroundings is merely their variable vibrational frequencies.

    In fact, the circumstances of duality or multiplicity as observed by our mind consciousness would be an obvious indication of all fluctuating vibrational frequencies arising in the cosmos. This is because everything in the material Universe is made up of energy. Atoms and molecules are made up of energy. Our bodies, our clothes, our cars, our houses are all made up of energy but what makes them different is their vibration. Energy is always vibrating at a different frequency under the influence of conditional phenomena. Everything has its own vibrational frequency – our thoughts, our feelings, the rock, the table, the car, the animal, the plant, the tree, etc. Even colours are merely expressions of certain vibrational frequencies.
     
  19. buddhitakso

    buddhitakso Member

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  20. buddhitakso

    buddhitakso Member

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