Sinning to become closer to God

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by BigJoeNobody, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    120
    OK so this comes off my FB page. A gentleman contested something I said and the context isn't really important. He stated entirely and reconfirmed that it is his belief that through sinning one becomes closer to God. Is this shared anywhere else, because if so, I completely missed that one in Bible Study growing up. I was always told to attempt to be as Jesus (PBUH) was, and ask forgiveness for that which i messed up. A sentiment I carry with me today. But he simply stated to "Ask David" presumably Prophet David (PBUH).

    How can one gain goodness by doing what God told him not to do?
     
  2. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    409
    That's a new one on me too. I think perhaps though, the idea of being closer to God comes not from committing the sin, but in repenting for it and asking for God's forgiveness. So I guess in a round about way.....
     
    BigJoeNobody likes this.
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,270
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Like a child who doesn't get any love from his parents so acts out to get attention...any attention even discipline?
     
  4. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,293
    Likes Received:
    555
    Any indication of religious background? Satanists often some things the other way around.
     
  5. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    753
    I've heard this before in Christian settings being offered as a possible explanation for sin in some cases. As Wil said, like a child misbehaving to get attention.
    As Aussie says, the goodness factor comes in repentance. The prodigal son so to speak. A lost sheep returning to the flock.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,568
    Likes Received:
    1,550
    His belief, maybe. Christian belief, no.
     
  7. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    120
    IDK, I offered him the Idea that it was from repenting the errors (sins) you make possibly. He insisted that you would have to do the sins to be good. IDK, I'm assuming a Southern Baptist, but this is much different than what I was taught. As a matter in fact, I see good much now as I did then. Live as the Prophets did, and when you mess up ask forgiveness and don't return.
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,270
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Ask him which scripture supports this belief...
     
  9. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    409
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,270
    Likes Received:
    1,689
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,270
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Taken out of context meanings change...
     
  12. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,568
    Likes Received:
    1,550
    This is a common modern comment, but it's philosophically a nonsense. It can be dismissed in a couple of sentences, but I can't remember the proper philosophical rejection!

    The basic idea is we should all bang our heads on the wall, so we can appreciate the lack of pain when we stop ... or that you cannot be happy if you don't know sadness.

    As Wil said, I think he'll have a lot of trouble finding a Scripture text which suggests offending God as the way to God.

    And, as Wil points out, if you pull lines out of context, they're easy to distort or misunderstand. Luther would never countenance sin, but rather Luther believed, more than Catholics, that we are creatures of sin. So he's saying admit your sin, and trust in God. Not admit your sin, and do it as much as you can!
     
  13. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    120
    Just FYI, he referenced Luke 15 11-32 and John 4 5-32... I can almost wrap my head around how someone might come to that conclusion, but I feel it is a bit led on...

    my interpretation of those, someone who realizes their sins and returns to the right path is afforded a greater reward, but the one who always does good will always have a decent reward. Kinda like all now or all later, except the one who sins shouldn't be doing so if he knows it is wrong.
     
  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear BG,
    The idea comes from the false prophet Paul and his Romans 5:20, whereas Grace supposedly increases with sinning. Of course the whole idea is ludicrous, but Paul has many followers. Sin causes separation from God.

    New American Standard Bible Romans 5:20
    The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
     
  15. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    378
    Gotta admit it is a compelling offer, Joe. You get to have your cake and eat it too. Sin all you want and still stay close to God. What a deal! Sadly I doubt there is scant if any scripture that could support this claim.
     
  16. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    120
    @2ndpillar ,
    Me personally I have no problem saying Paul was uninformed/misinformed, and that he had an agenda that differed from that of the Prophet (PBUH). But continuing your tirade of False Prophet declaration all over is doubtful to earn you much credibility. There is enough evidence scripturally from Torah and Bible that would make calling him such a very big sin. He never claimed to be, although he did claim that he was contacted by Jesus, who he professed was God. Meaning he had contact (at least in his claim) but that in and of itself isn't a declaration of Prophethood. Throughout the Torah many non-prophets spoke to Angels and God through dreams and whatnot.

    @Devils' Advocate ,
    I agree. I think this comes in the misunderstandings point. In Islam we have a concept called Tawbah. That if you truly repent from a sin, and swear to never return to such, your bad deeds will become good deeds. But this is very difficult. 1 it requires absolute intention to repent, and never return. 2 it requires one to immediately stop such activities. It is never encouraged for one to pursue with intent to make Tawbah later, due to the fact that none of us know our time. Anyone can be killed at any moment if Allah wishes one to. I think this is what the writers of the Bible were trying to get across, but failed to cover it in depth enough for future generations to understand.
     
  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear BJ,
    Calling the writings of Paul, "Scripture", as in the Word of God, is to say he is speaking for God, and therefore a prophet. In fact, Paul's rants are antithetical to Scripture. Paul assuring his followers that they will be "twinkled" into immortality, is in direct opposition to Ez 18:20, whereas all men die for their own sins. But more in keeping with your point of view, Paul would be a false apostle, and as a part time resident of Ephesus, would fit the description of "those who call themselves apostles, and they are not". (Rev 2:2) Of course Paul, nor his associates, such as Luke, spoke for God, but Paul's followers believe otherwise, to their own "destruction" (Mt 7:13). Looking at the news, that destruction seems sooner rather than later.
     
  18. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    378
    You seem to be a one issue commentator. Is there any more depth to your belief system or is your dumping on Paul all you have to offer. Only ask as making the same point in every post is already getting old. Surely you have more to offer?
     
  19. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear DA,
    As Peter and Paul are the foundation of the "Christian" church, and that foundation of sand (Mt 7:27) is about to "fall", I think it is an important issue, seeing as that Peter is the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, who would not feed, tend or care for the sheep (Zech 11:16), but one who "leaves the flock" of the lost sheep of Israel, and shepherds the "flock doomed to slaughter" (Zech 11:7) which is the "Christian" church, which is based on the lawlessness of Paul (Romans 7:6) and the "stumbling block" of Peter/ Petros (small rock/sand). Paul is simply the shepherd called "Favor", because of his false gospel of grace (Zech 11:10). This "flock doomed to slaughter" (Zech 11:7)/Christian church, is simply referred to the "adulteress" in Hosea 3, and was purchased for the equivalence of 30 shekels of silver until Israel should "return" (Hosea 3:5). The Gentiles were given a chance to choose to heed the message of Yeshua (Mt 7:26), yet they have chosen the false prophet Paul, and the "worthless shepherd" Peter, and his heir the Pope, who is also doomed to "fall" per Isaiah 22:25 "in that day".

    That Paul preaches "lawlessness" and professes to be the "foremost sinner", should tickle the cackles of the "devil's advocate".

    As for your offering, following the pied piper Paul, is the "way" that leads to "destruction". (Mt 7:13) Hopefully you are enjoying your present existence of dealing with Babylon's plagues (Rev 18:4) and the knowledge that those who "commit lawlessness" and follow the "stumbling blocks" (Mt 13:41) get to look forward to going to a place where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Mt 7:42).
     
  20. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,293
    Likes Received:
    555
    This guy sure is tiresome.
     
    Namaste Jesus likes this.

Share This Page