What If The Devil Became Truly Repentant...

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Namaste Jesus, May 2, 2016.

  1. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    This confuses me. Lucifer was once on the side of God before he rebelled right? Then he rebelled, was cast down, became evil, etc., etc. If the devil was once good before his really bad decision, how can he be pure evil? He was good before he was evil.
     
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  2. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    No argument there. Providing the contrast just reinforces the idea.
     
  3. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Amending NJ's comments further, as I understand him, he is using the ancient concepts that one can only know something by knowing its opposite as well. How does one know it is hot? Because there are days where it is cold. How would one know that good is good if there is nothing to compare it to.
     
  4. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    My dad thought of good and evil as one being relative to the other. He use to say in jest, "If it weren't for people with large bums, we wouldn't know cheesecake was bad for us!":D
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  5. Maccabaeus

    Maccabaeus Star of David, Seal of Solomon, Creator's Star

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    The problem with your theoretical repentance of the Devil is that, because some future events have already been determined according to Divine prophecy, this scenario is already an impossibility. How so? Well, in terms of Christian doctrine, the Devil already has a pre-determined destiny to fight against God and Christ, to rise up and take a last desperate stand against the forces of goodness The numerous Judeo/Christian/Islamic prophecies about Satan's final and absolute defeat at the hands of the one, true God must be fulfilled to bring about the Last Days and the End of Time. Because the Devil's future demise is pre-ordained, the chance for repentance and forgiveness is out of the question, because the story has already been written and the ending of any good story requires the bad guy to lose.
     
  6. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    So God's love is limited?
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Well that's not a given, because we can know love without knowing its equivalent hate. We can know comfort without unease, the negatives aren't necessary in that respect.

    Also I would suggest one discern the difference between good and bad, and good and evil. The different things. And bearing in mind evil is not itself a physical, quantitative element, like warmth (or lack of), fullness/hunger, hot/cold ... but a moral determination, and in this context a Divine Ordinance, so in that sense we don't have to do or actualise evil to know the good, the mindset should be disposed towards the good for its own sake, and reject evil for that reason.


    How does one know it is hot? Because there are days where it is cold. How would one know that good is good if there is nothing to compare it to.[/QUOTE]
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    So we're told.

    It's to do with how the Tradition understands the distinctions between corporeal nature, like ourselves, and incorporeal nature, as per angels.

    Dionysius says:
    This last, 'a life wholly intellectual' encompasses the ancient philosophy that the Intellect is transcendent in that it is a participation in the Divine Intellect. They did not understand 'intellect' the way we moderns understand it, as someone who is clever, who knows a lot, is sophisticated, etc.

    But the point is, humans are bi-natured, the union of intellect and matter, whereas angels are pure intellect.

    When man fell, the sin was from outside in, as it were, the whole story is one of the seduction of the (physical) senses over-riding the (mental or common )sense that would have said, 'If God says don't do it, don't do it'.'

    But the angelic fall was different, because they are creatures of pure spirit/pure intellect, theirs is a more immediate participation in the Divine, they do not see 'through a glass' as we do ... their knowledge is not reflected in the mirror of the soul, but is a direct and immediate knowing, and in that sense they are creatures of light.

    In the Bible it's evident that God withdrew His grace from man when man transgressed. When the angel transgressed, he corrupted his capacity to receive/participate in Divine Being by the corruption of his own inherent nature. It's given then that man is essentially good, wounded by sin, and in need of Divine assistance to work his salvation. The angels however, became in essence creatures of sin, or the idea that forms the core of their being is a contrariness, so in the sense the angels cannot repent because they cannot go against their own nature.

    God could heal the angels, and perhaps He does, but that would be a miracle, and not for us to say.

    Also, as angels are 'outside' time, the Fathers grappled with the question of when did the angelic fall happen, and there is a stream of thought (Aquinas) that it was simultaneous with their creation – not that they were created fallen, nor predestined to fall, but exercised that option, as it were. St Basil believed in a spiritual creation prior to a physical creation, but again as this spiritual creation is not governed by time, we can say prior, but not before, if you get my drift.

    Lastly, there is also the teaching that Christ came to redeem man, and the whole things turns on 'Father, forgive them, they know not what they do'. He never said anything about angels, and they knew what they were doing.
     
  9. Courage

    Courage Member

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    No chance there. Repentance is a requirement specified in a covenant made available for humans. As for angels once they choose to break the Law they are done.
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I'm gonna have to watch superman vs batman again.
     
  11. Saheim

    Saheim New Member

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    I am not the only Muslim who disagrees with this.

    I know I'm just a revert, but a very close friend of mine was raised Muslim from birth. He was born in the K.S.A. but is Paki/Indian. He shares my opinion that the forgiveness of Allah (swt) is greater than the evil of shaytan. We have to believe this because, otherwise, there is a limit to what Allah (swt) will forgive. Where is the cut off? Hitler? Pol Pot? Dahmer?
     
  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    Dear nj,
    There is apparently an "unforgivable" sin. Looking at Rev 20:10, it seems that the "false prophet" and the "beast" were also complicit.
     
  13. Amica2

    Amica2 Member

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    According to Islam, the devil's main sins were pride and refusal to follow God's orders because of which he has proceeded to lead humans to worship him, false gods or be atheists. He never denied God's existence and power. Now, if he were to repent, he will have to stop doing what he has been doing. However, the damage he has caused humanity is so great. Ultimately, it would be up to God to decide whether the devil is forgivable, if he should spend some time in Hell and some in Heaven.
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Hmmm

    Makes me ponder...

    What is the devil? (In my mind not some critter, definitely not human)

    The Bible is for humans right? Or do digs have to follow the commandments....and other entities?
     
  15. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    God is so merciful, yes He will forgive the devil if he became truly repentant!, this might change things in that the #1 devil, iblis is the leader of the billions of Jinn devils that work under him (there is at least 1 demon Jinn appointed to each human being and the more pious Muslim can have a few devils on his back, a bit like few opposition players surrounding Maradonna everytime he had the ball), but it would remain to be seen whether all of these minions will obey their leader and stop trying to lead mankind astray or whether another devil just takes the leadership position and everything remains 'normal' .

    However the Quran already foretells that the devil will never become repentant
     

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