juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
What I find intriguing is the beginning of religion...why have humans ever even bothered to develop such a comprehensive system of recognizing the Divine? If, as atheists argue, there is no god, then why did prehistoric humanity universally pursue reconnection with the Divine? Not just Cro Magnon, there is evidence among Neandertals, and I suspect there will be finds eventually among Denisovans. *All* of us carry genetic material from these three distinct species of homo, in greater and lesser amounts. I just read yesterday that in one Island culture there is genetic material that points to a 4th distinct species of homo we have yet to identify. What stands so amazing is the finds from Cro Magnon and Neanderthal sites indicating a reverential desire to reconnect with the Divine, to "seek blessing" as it were, that spans entire continents and entire "ages."
Why would Hunter Gatherer societies consumed daily with the struggles of survival create anything like religion...if there were no god to pursue? Mass hysteria? OK, then that hysteria was effectively worldwide, across cultures and species, and it lasted we know for tens of thousands of years. That is a mighty long mass hysteria, and if so would suggest humanity continues to labor under the same delusion, worldwide. I don't think so...unless the whole of humanity is *entirely* stark raving nuts (that would include atheists by association).
I don't think a hunter gatherer society could afford a frivolous pursuit to the extent that was given to religion, unless there was some survival benefit. Something is out there, we intuitively know it. We've been chasing it since we became human.
Lascaux, Cosquer, Chauvet, Niaux, Altamira, Pech Merle, Fumane, Blombos, Niah, Bomeo, Maros, Padah-Lin, Tabon, Khoit Tsenkher, and more display artwork that is routinely defined by anthropologists in the field as religious in application. This spans all of the Old World habited continents except Australia and all dated well into prehistoric "stone age." There are cliff paintings in Australia that fit this as well for dates and purposes.
There are Pre-Columbian finds in the New World as well. All of this points to humanity pursuing the Divine LONG before religion was formally systematized and organized into competing faiths. Even the prehistoric uncivilized barbaric unlearned preliterate heathens still sought Divine guidance.
Blombos cave in South Africa provided pierced shell beads...art...dated to 100,000 years before present.
There is a bone flute attributed to Neanderthals (Divja Babe, Slovenia)...music...dated at 55,000 years before present. Not even anatomically modern humans, our species seems to have gotten music from Neanderthals.
The Indonesian island of Sulawesi has given up cave paintings that rival the oldest in Europe for age, as old as those at El Castillo in Spain dated nearly 41,000 years before present, and remarkable because the "reverse handprint" style graffiti seems a common theme throughout the Neolithic era and across the span of continents.
Portable art in the form of "Venus" fertility figures, various animals, and even the "Lion Man" Löwenmensch from Hohlenstein, many of which date up to 40,000 years before present.
Red Ochre is another common theme throughout, ritual use as a pigment and as a medium to be carved can again be found across the gamut and throughout the time period under discussion.
My point being religion, art, and music have been with humanity a VERY long time, cross culturally and cross species of homo, appear to be universal pursuits, and are linked inextricably with reaching out to the Divine.
Moreover, at Skhul cave at Qafzeh, Israel the oldest known to date careful human burials were found, dated conservatively at 100,000 years old, including a Cro Magnon man with a boar mandible placed carefully across his chest, and a mother and child whose bones were deliberately stained with red ochre.
The oldest careful Neanderthal burial is noted as 130,000 years ago, at Krapina in Croatia.
Shanidar 1 (Iraq) is a Neanderthal that was not only carefully buried, but because of illness and injury had to have a great deal of compassionate assistance to survive during his 40 years of life. This demonstrates Neanderthals were cooperative to the point of providing aid to their elderly and infirm. Another Neanderthal find at La Chapelle-aux-Saints suggests the same theme, though this find still seems to be under question.
The oldest ritual burial in Australia is dated at 42,000 years ago at Lake Mungo.
So the question to me is not "who has seniority?" among world religions. Every single major world faith owes a debt of gratitude to our prehistoric forebears.
The question to me has long been "why are we religious, if there is nothing there?"
Why would Hunter Gatherer societies consumed daily with the struggles of survival create anything like religion...if there were no god to pursue? Mass hysteria? OK, then that hysteria was effectively worldwide, across cultures and species, and it lasted we know for tens of thousands of years. That is a mighty long mass hysteria, and if so would suggest humanity continues to labor under the same delusion, worldwide. I don't think so...unless the whole of humanity is *entirely* stark raving nuts (that would include atheists by association).
I don't think a hunter gatherer society could afford a frivolous pursuit to the extent that was given to religion, unless there was some survival benefit. Something is out there, we intuitively know it. We've been chasing it since we became human.
Lascaux, Cosquer, Chauvet, Niaux, Altamira, Pech Merle, Fumane, Blombos, Niah, Bomeo, Maros, Padah-Lin, Tabon, Khoit Tsenkher, and more display artwork that is routinely defined by anthropologists in the field as religious in application. This spans all of the Old World habited continents except Australia and all dated well into prehistoric "stone age." There are cliff paintings in Australia that fit this as well for dates and purposes.
There are Pre-Columbian finds in the New World as well. All of this points to humanity pursuing the Divine LONG before religion was formally systematized and organized into competing faiths. Even the prehistoric uncivilized barbaric unlearned preliterate heathens still sought Divine guidance.
Blombos cave in South Africa provided pierced shell beads...art...dated to 100,000 years before present.
There is a bone flute attributed to Neanderthals (Divja Babe, Slovenia)...music...dated at 55,000 years before present. Not even anatomically modern humans, our species seems to have gotten music from Neanderthals.
The Indonesian island of Sulawesi has given up cave paintings that rival the oldest in Europe for age, as old as those at El Castillo in Spain dated nearly 41,000 years before present, and remarkable because the "reverse handprint" style graffiti seems a common theme throughout the Neolithic era and across the span of continents.
Portable art in the form of "Venus" fertility figures, various animals, and even the "Lion Man" Löwenmensch from Hohlenstein, many of which date up to 40,000 years before present.
Red Ochre is another common theme throughout, ritual use as a pigment and as a medium to be carved can again be found across the gamut and throughout the time period under discussion.
My point being religion, art, and music have been with humanity a VERY long time, cross culturally and cross species of homo, appear to be universal pursuits, and are linked inextricably with reaching out to the Divine.
Moreover, at Skhul cave at Qafzeh, Israel the oldest known to date careful human burials were found, dated conservatively at 100,000 years old, including a Cro Magnon man with a boar mandible placed carefully across his chest, and a mother and child whose bones were deliberately stained with red ochre.
The oldest careful Neanderthal burial is noted as 130,000 years ago, at Krapina in Croatia.
Shanidar 1 (Iraq) is a Neanderthal that was not only carefully buried, but because of illness and injury had to have a great deal of compassionate assistance to survive during his 40 years of life. This demonstrates Neanderthals were cooperative to the point of providing aid to their elderly and infirm. Another Neanderthal find at La Chapelle-aux-Saints suggests the same theme, though this find still seems to be under question.
The oldest ritual burial in Australia is dated at 42,000 years ago at Lake Mungo.
So the question to me is not "who has seniority?" among world religions. Every single major world faith owes a debt of gratitude to our prehistoric forebears.
The question to me has long been "why are we religious, if there is nothing there?"
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