Bengali girl in love with a Muslim man

Discussion in 'Islam' started by SHI, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Praying to Allah;
    Seeking understanding of Islam.

    Yes good question. It makes me admit: What am I trying to say?

    In my defense, I first claim I am replying to a Bengali Girl's Question in the OP.

    Bengal was a region that is very much larger than simply East Pakistan...so I can relate to Bengal's Hindus due to the medieval History of Bengal.

    So that is where my POV came from.

    Any way "Intercessor" is not a concept that I introduced.

    If one is a professional in any field they have rose through the three checks for Intellectual know-how:
    1 Mentors
    2 Colleagues of Mentors
    3 Texts of the Mentors

    It's my pedantic measuring gauge.
     
  2. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I don't get where you are coming from then that you are arguing that Muslims pray to or through a thing or person. To have a mentor, a leader, or a teacher doesn't mean you pray to them. I may pray for a teacher to receive benefit, but I wouldn't pray to or through him/her to/in replacement of Allah.

    Having respect for and praying to or through are 2 different things. I may remember the "authorities" or "teachers" in my prayers, but my prayer is directed to and without a mediator to Allah alone.

    As to reiterate the reason we are having this discussion, Muslim law (Shariah) is quite clear that marrying outside of Abrahamics is forbidden, while marrying Muslim is highly encouraged. A Hindu, even if they follow loosely will not understand and possibly not respect the reasons we don't have Idols. Nor may they want to teach their children that there is 1 God, or any other differentials in the 2 religions.
     
  3. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    I appreciate hearing this
     
  4. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    Yep Hindus are not like the Protestants
     
  5. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    You always write perfectly understandable posts, and the you put something in it that is so hard for me to understand.

    Why would this be true? You don't understand polytheism? I'm neither but I understand monotheism and polytheism just fine, I also respect it.

    To put in context: There is what the Quran says, and there is the rationalizations people make to justify what the Quran says.
    I'm personally fine with just following the Quran and trusting in it's authority. I find the reasons to do so redundant and often flawed.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Why for hundreds of years did Muslims paint pictures and create mosaics with images of Mohammed and Allah? And now will destroy museum pieces with images of ordinary people?
     
  7. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    haha, you don't think this topic deserves it's own thread? Or what do you think Joe, can you give us a historic rundown for Islam as a whole and specific groups in particular while keeping on topic?
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    True... Joe....don't answer here....let's start another one...she hasnt been back and we've already determined what is good for.the goose doesn't apply to the gander.
     
  9. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    One thing is written in the Koran; the other is NOT written in the Koran (Shariah). Is this correct?
     
  10. farhan

    farhan Well-Known Member

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    Any discussion between a hindu and a muslim eventually comes down to core metaphysics. Both hindu and muslim would agree that there is only one God. But Muslim would say one should only worship the one supreme God, as an abstract concept/entity. Hindu would argue that individual aspects or manifestations and downstream manifestations of manifestations as concrete entities can/should also be considered a/the God. This generates a metaphysical slippery slope and eventually people are worshiping cows and mice (and cobras and monkeys and rivers and mountains....).

    And Islamic bypass technique around this obstacle (essence vs attributes) is to chant/meditate upon individual divine names, while considering them an aspect/theophany of the one, not a separate god.
     
  11. farhan

    farhan Well-Known Member

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    Intercessor and mentor are two completely different concepts. One is in the path between two points, making a connection. The other is outside the path between two points, helping/catalyzing the connection.
     
  12. farhan

    farhan Well-Known Member

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    Persians and newly converted quasi-muslim turks had that cultural habit. Turks stopped it once they converted fully. Persians went Shia under Safavids and in Shia Jurisprudence making pictures of holly figures is somehow allowed. You wont find these cultural habits anywhere out side Iran today.

    To me, it feels more of a sacrilege than an act of devotion. It doesnt feel right. Some things deserve to remain abstract in order to keep then sacred.
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Really? Hmmm......makes me think it weren't so sacred to begin with then....if that is all it takes to diminishm
     
  14. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I try to be understandable... I'm not the best though... ADHD prevents too much straight thought...

    I get where you are coming from, and from a respect a person's belief standpoint I agree. When you start talking about merging lives together, I think it becomes important to understand the why's, so that both parties can keep from insulting the other accidentally. For this example, She might understand that he doesn't want Idols, and may even understand that it is religious and important. But then she brings in a photo of Shiva (is that the 6 armed lady?) or a medallion that she remembered getting when she was young for "protection" or "health" or whatnot. To her these may not be bog deals, but to a devout Muslim, it is quite clear. Then even if he throws it out she may get mad as it was a thoughtful gift to her.

    from a purely religious sense, this is the right thing. Only Allah would know all the benefits or reasons. However some things we can find some reasons for, and confidently say that is why that is the way Allah has set forth. I think as a Muslim we must remember that whatever we find as a reason isn't necessarily all, therefore we can't slide by the command because we can fix that issue. For instance, eating Pork. We know pork is full of cholesterol, some say it is easily infested with worms or diseases that transmits to us since the flesh is similar to our own, etc. That doesn't mean that if we cook the heck out of it and drain the fat that it somehow becomes OK. No we must not "Eat of the swine" period...

    Farhan I think covered this as briefly as I would want to, essentially it is from cultures who had not fully understood the whats and hows. Turkish for instance still uses "Evil Eyes" and while they are art, they are essentially idols as some people believe they hold powers (similar to dream catchers and horseshoes over a door). These acts are done, but that doesn't make them Islamic.

    No, Shariah is a collection of Rules based on Quran and Hadiths. Quran being the inarguable source, while Hadith is largely debated. Some Parts of Shariah are well known, while others are not obvious. In essence there is 1 Shariah, but there are many different Ideas as to what that is. There are core ones, that aren't debated usually, but there's always someone out there wanting to question, and then we have to look at proofs from our sources (Quran and Hadith) to determine the answer. This decision is loosely Fiqh (or Scholarly opinion of law... if someone has a better definition please do so)...

    Ironically this quip is a great summation of my point to ACOT, you see the errors of some people as diminishing sacredness. While I (and many other Muslims) would simply say they were wrong, and not accept the paintings (possibly destroy them if they came upon our possession in a rightful way). For someone to paint a portrait of Allah, the most accurate way, would be to have a blank piece of Paper. In our view, Allah has no form, at least not that we could comprehend in this existence.
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Destroy them... Throw away her possession from her youth... Lol you do realize that THAT...the act of destroying them, the need to destroy them us PROOF you believe in idols? Not that they are their idols, but that these are your idols, you've given them power over you with your need to destroy them.
     
    Namaste Jesus likes this.
  16. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    Again, no. Just because I would want to destroy them, doesn't mean I am acknowledging power in them... I'm guessing you might have listened to some David Wood recent;y as he likes to use this as some kind of AHAA GOT YA moment. In reality we don't want the Idols because 1. Allah forbids it, 2. Their shear existence can lead to false beliefs. IE dreamcatchers catching nightmares, etc.
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    No clue who your.David wood is....

    But lol...
    No, no belief in their power over you there.
     
  18. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    As an ADD-type Im ok with that.

    The only thing here that jabbed me in the eye wad throwing out the spouses things without it being consensual. Communication, man!

    Destroying ancient art is also hard to handle, but it's not in my liberal-non-religious control, nor should it be.

    On idols, would it be correct to say that they have social and psychological power but no supernatural power?
     
  19. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    No, Shiva is part of the Hindu Trimurti. For most Hindus though, such images are merely focal points, not objects of worship and therefore not an idol. Hopefully, if the couple does get together, there will be some mutual respect and understanding in this regard.
     
  20. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Not it appears if one were to follow the advice provided here....
     

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