This Life and the Next

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Aussie Thoughts, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    Doubtful she bothered to do that much. Her claims are so far removed from any known Aboriginal customs, that an Aboriginal cultural exchange group in Perth decided to get into it. After an extensive survey of all native tribes in the area, they concluded that her book and teachings lacked any credibility whatsoever and were a complete fabrication.
     
  2. Samana Johann

    Samana Johann (Not a member, just a guest)

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    Don't be quick. Fools are qick, today this, tomorrow that. Why? Because they fear reallity.

    Knowing, it's not possible to tell.

    Some live exclusively walkabout , fool wold not see, even if in front.

    All in the sphere of sense is fabricated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  3. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Well-Known Member

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    Have you experience with "Tao te Ching"?

    Have you come across it in your provincial studies?
     
  4. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Well-Known Member

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    So we supposed soul-beings are less fortunate than many many stones?

    IE: the stones that see the light of each day? The stones that form the Roman Colosseum, and the Pyramids, and the stones of the Machu picchu?
    Or even the cast steel objects that have lasted for generations, and tomb stones and the rosetta stones. A nail in a house that George Washington slept in ----ALL are more fortunate than we folks that were born once and then gone. So many fish in the ocean ---better to be a stone in a Harbor sea-Wall bulkhead or a stone in the aqueduct from the Alps or an stone in corridors of a catacomb...for they live forever!
     
  5. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Well-Known Member

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    In yin and yang ("dark–bright") describe how seemingly opposite or contrary forces may actually be complementary,
    interconnected, and interdependent in the natural world, and
    how they may give rise to each other
    as they interrelate to one another.

    Many tangible dualities (such as light and dark, fire and water, expanding and contracting)
    are thought of as physical manifestations of the duality symbolized by yin and yang.

    This duality lies at the origins of many branches of classical philosophy, as well as being a primary guideline of different forms of Chinese martial arts.

    Duality is found in many belief systems, Yin and Yang are parts of a Oneness.
    A term has been coined dualistic-monism or dialectical monism.

    Yin and yang can be thought of as complementary (rather than opposing) forces that
    interact to form a dynamic system in which the whole is greater than the assembled parts.

    Everything has both yin and yang aspects (for instance, shadow cannot exist without light).

    Either of the two major aspects may manifest more strongly in a particular object, depending on the criterion of the observation.
    The yin yang (i.e. taijitu symbol) shows a balance between two opposites with a portion of the opposite element in each section.

    IMO, the yin and yang aka the PRINCIPLE OF DUALITY is not a Chinese invention. It is are and parcel of "Vedanta". The PRINCIPLE OF DUALITY is absolute.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Everybody must get....
     
  7. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Well-Known Member

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    I dis-agree ... but that is another discussion.

    Maranguape implies several supposed "knowns":

    Dead or alive "We" have a "place".

    Life is fleeting. Death is forever.

    There is no actual after life, even though the term is bandied about.

    The Bible provides us with knowledge of "We being in a place" that is observed one [during a lifetime] and then how "The place continues forever" repeating this experience.

    I dis-agree ... because science says:
    'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.'

    And I have always espoused that science cannot locate this place that "place wherefrom one will never return." ---Which 'logically' would be jam-packed with passed folks' souls. The universe is already occupied with the "period table" worth of inhabitants.

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    A Secular reference:

    Five Reasons You Won’t Die
    We’ve been taught we’re just a collection of cells, and that we die when our bodies wear out. End of story. I’ve written textbooks showing how cells can be engineered into virtually all the tissues and organs of the human body. But a long list of scientific experiments suggests our belief in death is based on a false premise, that the world exists independent of us − the great observer.

    Here are five reasons you won’t die.

    Reason One. You’re not an object, you’re a special being. According to biocentrism, nothing could exist without consciousness. Remember you can’t see through the bone surrounding your brain. Space and time aren’t objects, but rather the tools our mind uses to weave everything together.

    “It will remain remarkable,” said Eugene Wigner, who won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1963 “in whatever way our future concepts may develop, that the very study of the external world led to the conclusion that the content of the consciousness is an ultimate reality.”

    Consider the uncertainty principle, one of the most famous and important aspects of quantum mechanics. Experiments confirm it’s built into the fabric of reality, but it only makes sense from a biocentric perspective. If there’s really a world out there with particles just bouncing around, then we should be able to measure all their properties. But we can’t. Why should it matter to a particle what you decide to measure? Consider the double-slit experiment: if one “watches” a subatomic particle or a bit of light pass through slits on a barrier, it behaves like a particle and creates solid-looking hits behind the individual slits on the final barrier that measures the impacts. Like a tiny bullet, it logically passes through one or the other hole. But if the scientists do not observe the trajectory of the particle, then it exhibits the behavior of waves that allow it pass through both holes at the same time. Why does our observation change what happens? Answer: Because reality is a process that requires our consciousness.

    The two-slit experiment is an example of quantum effects, but experiments involving Buckyballs and KHCO3 crystals show that observer-dependent behavior extends into the world of ordinary human-scale objects. In fact, researchers recently showed (Nature2009) that pairs of ions could be coaxed to entangle so their physical properties remained bound together even when separated by large distances, as if there was no space or time between them. Why? Because space and time aren’t hard, cold objects. They’re merely tools of our understanding.

    Death doesn’t exist in a timeless, spaceless world. After the death of his old friend, Albert Einstein said “Now Besso has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That means nothing. People like us...know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” In truth, your mind transcends space and time.

    Reason Two. Conservation of energy is a fundamental axiom of science. The first law of thermodynamics states that energy can’t be created or destroyed. It can only change forms. Although bodies self-destruct, the “me’’ feeling is just a 20-watt cloud of energy in your head. But this energy doesn’t go away at death. A few years ago scientists showed they could retroactively change something that happened in the past. Particles had to “decide” how to behave when they passed a fork in an apparatus. Later on, the experimenter could flip a switch. The results showed that what the observer decided at that point determined how the particle behaved at the fork in the past.

    Think of the 20-watts of energy as simply powering a projector. Whether you flip a switch in an experiment on or off, it’s still the same battery responsible for the projection. Like in the two-slit experiment, you collapse physical reality. At death, this energy doesn’t just dissipate into the environment as the old mechanical worldview suggests. It has no reality independent of you. As Einstein’s esteemed colleague John Wheeler stated “No phenomenon is a real phenomenon until it is an observed phenomenon.” Each person creates their own sphere of reality - we carry space and time around with us like turtles with shells. Thus, there is no absolute self-existing matrix in which energy just dissipates.

    Reason Three. Although we generally reject parallel universes as fiction, there’s more than a morsel of scientific truth to this genre. A well-known aspect of quantum physics is that observations can’t be predicted absolutely. Instead, there’s a range of possible observations each with a different probability. One mainstream explanation is the ‘many-worlds’ interpretation, which states that each of these possible observations corresponds to a different universe (the ‘multiverse’). There are an infinite number of universes (including our universe), which together comprise all of physical reality. Everything that can possibly happen occurs in some universe. Death doesn’t exist in any real sense in these scenarios. All possible universes exist simultaneously, regardless of what happens in any of them. Like flipping the switch in the experiment above, you’re the agent who experiences them.

    Reason Four. You will live on through your children, friends, and all who you touch during your life, not only as part of them, but through the histories you collapse with every action you take. “According to quantum physics,” said theoretical physicists Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow, “the past, like the future, is indefinite and exists only as a spectrum of possibilities.” There’s more uncertainty in bio-physical systems than anyone ever imagined. Reality isn’t fully determined until we actually investigate (like in the Schrödinger’s cat experiment). There are whole areas of history you determine during your life. When you interact with someone, you collapse more and more reality (that is, the spatio-temporal events that define your consciousness). When you’re gone, your presence will continue like a ghost puppeteer in the universes of those you know.

    Reason Five. It’s not an accident that you happen to have the fortune of being alive now on the top of all infinity. Although it could be a one-in-a-jillion chance, perhaps it’s not just dumb luck, but rather must be that way. While you’ll eventually exit this reality, you, the observer, will forever continue to collapse more and more ‘nows.’ Your consciousness will always be in the present — balanced between the infinite past and the indefinite future — moving intermittently between realities along the edge of time, having new adventures and meeting new (and rejoining old) friends.

    “Biocentrism” (BenBella Books) lays out Lanza’s theory of everything.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-lanza/5-reasons-you-wont-die_b_810936.html
     
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  8. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Staff Member

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    That's interesting. You know, following my mother's passing, my grandnephew, who was 4 at the time, announced that he knew where you go when you die. He told us that, when you die your body goes in the ground and your memory goes into the people that loved you and you then see the world through their eyes. Turns out he got that from something he took literally that the Priest had said at my mom's internment. That her memory would live on in the minds of those who loved her. Just a 4 year old's misinterpretation of course, but an idea that has stuck with me ever since. "...out of the mouths of babes..."
     
  9. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    That's actually not out of line with what a lot of Australian Aboriginals believe. It's part of the dreamtime.
     
  10. Maranguape

    Maranguape Member

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    Okay Bhaktajan, can you point to an evidence of a place in the afterlife wherefrom we continue living? Then, you contradict yourself by agreeing with the Tanach that death is forever. (Psalm 49:12,20) I have never seen anyone who has died and continue forever repeating this experience. This that energy cannot be created or destroyed, I don't know what you are trying to proof because there is no personality in energy. One cannot have an intelligent communication with energy. We don't need Science to locate the place wherefrom we will never return. I think your problem is that you are trying to mix Science with religion and that's a no no. No place after death is jam-packed with passed folks souls. The soul is only a combination of the breath of life with the body which at death goes back to dust and the breath of life goes back to God Who gave it. (Genesis 2:7; Ecclesiastes 12:7)
     
  11. Maranguape

    Maranguape Member

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    There is no such things as soul-beings. The soul is gone after the body goes back to the dust and the breath of life returns to God Who gave it to the body. I see your post above as a parable or allegory which can be understood only through metaphorical interpretation. However, any interpretation
    will be of the one who has had a different experience than the author of the parable/allegory.
     
  12. Maranguape

    Maranguape Member

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    No, I have not; and I am not into the mood to experience a different Philosophy other than Biblical Phylosophy. I think you are on the wrong forum.
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    This is not a Christian or biblical forum

    This is an interfaith forum

    We are in the belief and spirituality section, not the Christian or Jewish section, so the other philosophies and scripture are open for discussion.

    (They are as well in the other forums...)
     
  14. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Well-Known Member

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    For You young Maranguape:


    Luke 16:19-31 "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.

    Isaiah 26:19 Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.

    Daniel 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    Matthew 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    2 Kings 2:11 As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.

    https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Afterlife
     
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  15. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Taoist yoga (pdf). Complicated stuff:
    https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Taoist-Yoga-Alchemy-and-Immortality.pdf
     
  16. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Well-Known Member

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    When I mentioned Ying & Yang ---I wasn't proposing Taoist Philosophy per se--- I just was pointing out the Principles-of-Opposites, or, the Principles-of-Opposites exist is a fact-of-life and science.

    For proton & electrons; up vs down; light vs darkness; acid vs alkaline; fat vs skinny; tall vs short; north vs south pole; male vs female; good vs bad; life vs death ---a fact-of-life that Opposites compose the whole mechanism.

    If you have one side of a "Duality" the complementary "Opposite" is nearby.

    You can NOT have one without the other ---they come in [and stay on] together---it's called "Duality". Principles-of-Duality.

    We have light and we have darkness ---this duality--- cannot be seperated. Where you have one...you have the other.

    So, I posted earlier a supposed bold statement:

    Predicated on the "If one now has life ... death is later certain" Principle;
    I then said:
    If one has died ... life is later certain. [this assume was the bold statement]
     
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  17. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Well-Known Member

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    If one has died ... life is later certain.

    Available vacancies ... are usually filled according to merit.
     
  18. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    But they're not always opposites. Darkness is not the opposite of light, but the lack of light? Cold is the lack of heat? Total darkness us like at the bottom of a mine: the total lack of light. But if you strike a match, you bring light. Then you can light candles, add light bulbs -- more and more light: a sun, a million sun's -- it just gets brighter, no end to light?

    Just a discussion.
     
  19. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Well-Known Member

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    Both Opposites are in separable from eachother.
    Now I am gonna say something and I mean to be respectful when saying it [this comment is sometimes taken as a diversion, but I am not brushing off the examples you've given]:

    What you said is a classic example of semantics.

    Duality is an absolute fact of life. What can be added it is that there are gradations in-between the "Opposite" poles.

    When I mentioned Ying & Yang ---I wasn't proposing Taoist Philosophy per se--- I just was pointing out the famous Ying & Yang Symbol:
    [​IMG]

    This symbol is called the "Yin & Yang Symbol". It shows interlocking of Opposites forming the whole ---and it shows the [diametrical] partial presence of the Opposite in each half.

    There is PLUS There is Minus ---and in each is a portion of the other.

    Martial arts & even artistic compositions of many media rely of balancing Opposites.

    There is musical sounds and there is the silence between the notes ---both work together. Both are in separable from eachother.
     
  20. EdgyDolmen

    EdgyDolmen Active Member

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    RJM - I have enjoyed and will continue to enjoy your posts. I must take this exception however to post #38.

    I am merely expressing my/an opinion. I get aggravated by the convenience of semantics. Examples: Blind = cannot see which of course is the opposite of sighted and not intended to be a medical explanation, just fact. Light is radiation illumination while dark is the lack of that very same illumination and therefore = the opposite! Cold is the (varying) absence of heat and heat is the absence of cold...come on, is that not opposite? Word games be damned... ED
     
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