Sister Sinead

Discussion in 'Islam' started by Arif Ghamiq, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. Arif Ghamiq

    Arif Ghamiq Active Member

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    The Sunni & Shi'a conflict, which is the primary conflict within the Ummah, comes from the differences in interpretation of both Quran & Hadith. Most Hadith are found in both Sunni & Shi'a collections.

    Spiritually, Islam is certainly not limited to Quran - or anything really. I personally believe the 'probems of Islam' come from Muslims.
     
    A Cup Of Tea, wil and HakimPtsid like this.
  2. OrtaYol

    OrtaYol Member

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    What are some of the different interpretations of the Quran that cause conflict between Shia and Sunni?

    If God claims that nothing has been left out of the Quran, why do we need hadith?
     
  3. HakimPtsid

    HakimPtsid Member

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    The nature of and history of the Qur'an is not flimsy like the Sunni narrative. We believe the prophet was the living, speaking Qur'an. The word (logos) was given to him (like the previous prophets) and the gnosis/irfan he received from Allah (and gnosis of the nature of the Qur'an itself) is passed directly by divine guidance through the prophet's family (Ahl Bayt) through the Twelve Imams. The Twelve Imams all (starting with Ali Talib) shed light on the cryptic book of the Qur'an and show it in all of it's profundity: philosophically, metaphysically and theologically.

    Muhammad pbuh, was the seal of the prophetic cycle - the revelation he received (and which was kept with the Imams) is the final restoration of the gnosis/irfan by the monotheism exemplified by prophet Abraham pbuh in particular (even more than Adam pbuh and Noah pbuh). We are not (original) a tribalistic militant religion, and as our Hadiths show; we are extremely philosophical and mystical, unlike Sunni orthodoxy. (there is an oddity in regards to Sunni Sufi's picking up on Shia traits but that different). We also have different eschatological beliefs to them stemming from the Imams themselves).

    We know that the revelation given to Muhammad was one of a more universal-bend (existentially), unlike orthodox Sunnism who see it as a most exclusivist 'dog eat dog' form of revelation (leading to formation of ideologies such as Wahhabism).
     
  4. Arif Ghamiq

    Arif Ghamiq Active Member

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    One of the differences in the interpretation of The Quran is of Surah 80:1-4. The Surah is called ‘Abasa - meaning “He Frowned”.

    The event for which Surah 80 is titled and specifically referred to in the first four verses, occurred when The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was meeting with some Tribal Chiefs and ‘Abdullah ibn Maktum - a blind man - came up to the Prophet.

    1) “He frowned and turned away,
    2) because there came to him a blind man,
    3) And what makes you know that he would not purify?
    4) “Or being warned, that he would not profit from the warning?”

    According to the Sunni, it was The Prophet who frowned and turned away, while the Shi’a say it was one of the Tribal Chiefs who frowned and turned away because they looked down on him for being poor and blind.

    Therefor the Sunni believe these verses are an admonition of The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), while the Shi’a insist that it is an admonition against the Tribal Chief.

    For the Shi’a, the Sunni interpretation goes against the ethical character of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and contradicts the belief in the Infallability of The Prophets, which also has application to the Infallability of the 12 Imams (as).

    We are told in The Quran that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the Example, Model, Pattern to be followed and we are to follow his example and obey his words. He gives no bad examples of behavior nor does he give false instructions. By these Quranic Commands The Hadith are referred to cannot be ignored.
     
  5. RogerBao

    RogerBao New Member

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    Sunnis are more honest about what the Quran says & in where I live, Shi'ism is banned as deviant. When both of you blame each other for eternity, then you know the root cause is the message itself.

    The Quran calls Non- Muslims as the worst of the animals (98:6). The Sunnis are honest about it. How do a Shia like you find this a universal message for mankind?

    How can the prophet be infallable if the Quran itself admits him to be a sinner past & future and grant him a blanket amnesty for it (48:2)?
     
  6. OrtaYol

    OrtaYol Member

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    Thank you for the response and my apologies for the late reply.

    I have a few problems with what you have said.

    You say that the Quran is cryptic, however the Quran says:


    2:185 - The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion.

    16:89 - We reveal the Scripture unto thee as an exposition of all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).

    17:9 - Surely this Quran guides to that which is most upright and gives good news to the believers who do good that they shall have a great reward.

    26:2 - These are the verses of the clear Book.

    You say divine guidance is passed through the Prophets family, however as shown above and in several other verses the Quran claims to be the guide itself. It claims to be a guide for all mankind, not just the Prophets family.

    38:87 - Lo! it is naught else than a reminder for all peoples(repeated in 81:27)


    You say the 12 imams shed light on the Quran, however the Quran claims that God Himself is the teacher of the Quran.

    29:69 - But those who struggle in Our cause, surely We shall guide them in Our ways; and God is with the good-doers.

    55:1-2 - The All-merciful, has taught the Koran.

    75:18-19 - So, when We recite it, follow thou its recitation. Then Ours it is to explain it.


    Peace.
     
  7. OrtaYol

    OrtaYol Member

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    Thank you, I was not aware of the Shia interpretation.

    For me the wording clearly indicates that the Prophet is the one who turned away. The Shia interpretation makes no sense, if it is the tribal leader who is frowning and turning away why does it say "because there came to him a blind man"? If the tribal chief is both the "he" and the "blind man" it is pretty much saying "the blind man frowned and turned away because there came to him a blind man"... no?

    I don't think the Quran ever claims that the Prophets are infallible. There are other instances in the Quran where the Prophet is admonished.

    9:43 - Allah pardon you! Why did you give them leave until those who spoke the truth had become manifest to you and you had known the liars?

    33:37 - And [remember, O Muhammad], when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, "Keep your wife and fear Allah ," while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him.

    66:1 - O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    The Quran makes the duties of the Prophet clear:

    5:99 - It is only for the Messenger to deliver the Message; and God knows what you reveal and what you hide.

    6:19 - Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, " Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches.

    27:92 - And to rehearse the Qur'an: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, and if any stray, say: "I am only a Warner".

    50:45 - We know best what they say, and you are not one to compel them; therefore remind him by means of the Quran who fears My threat.

    Can you quote the verses which say the Prophet is the example to follow? I am aware of "Obey the Messenger" which when read in the light of other information presented in the Quran indicates that the Prophet would never instruct other than to follow the Quran.

    For me Muhammad played 3 roles.

    1. He was the Messenger of God.
    2. He was the Prophet to lead his people, while he was alive.
    3. He was a man, a very good man but not infallible.

    18:110 - Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.


    Only as the Messenger was he infallible as the message was Divinely inspired. This is why you will not see the words "Obey Muhammad" or "Obey the Prophet", only "Obey the Messenger". Since we are told that the Messengers "Only duty" is to warn the people using the Quran/convey its message. The correct interpretation(imo) should be "Obey the Messenger" = Obey the Quran.

    53:2-4 - Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he speak out of desire. It is a revelations which has been revealed to him


    You say hadith cannot be ignored but the Quran says:

    6:114 - Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail."

    7:185 - Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what message after this will they then believe?

    45:6 - These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what hadith after Allah and His verses will they believe?

    77:50 - Then in what statement after the Qur'an will they believe?

    For 6:114 isn't Muhammad and his alleged hadith/sunnah "Other than God"?
    For 45:6 and 77:50 is the correct answer "the hadith/sunnah of the Prophet, his bloodline and the imams" or "None"?

    Peace.
     
  8. OrtaYol

    OrtaYol Member

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    In 98:6 the Quran is referring to a specific group of non-believers(as is shown in 98:4-5), it then goes on to say who are the best of creatures in 98:7.

    98:7 - Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the best of creatures.

    98:7 applies to any monotheist who strives to do/be good.
     
  9. HakimPtsid

    HakimPtsid Member

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    Where is the contradiction?


    (as for "clear book", yet there are many other verses stating: "That (this) is indeed a noble Qur'an, In a Book kept hidden, Which none toucheth save the purified")
     

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