Appears to me the authors were just making words up!
Catholic change to Lords Prayer
- Thread starter wil
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Do you mean that different bibles deliberately mistranslated the Lord's Prayer to suit themselves? Which bibles?
Do you mean that interpretations of 'shades of meanings' of certain words are different in different versions? Like 'forgive us our trespasses' vs 'forgive us our debts'? What do you mean?
Do you mean that interpretations of 'shades of meanings' of certain words are different in different versions? Like 'forgive us our trespasses' vs 'forgive us our debts'? What do you mean?
There are lots of different Bible versions of (Matthew's version) of the Lord's Prayer here. Just switch between different bibles and search them all:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6:9-13&version=NKJV
Where are the major differences between them?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6:9-13&version=NKJV
Where are the major differences between them?
That's fine, @wil, and the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that any parts of the Bible found there, have not been changed in any meaningful way. You seem determined to prove the Bible has been deliberately and maliciously altered over time to suit various factions and kings etc.
But it's just not true, apart from quite minor quibbles about the 'shades of meanings' of various words.
The various versions of the Lord's Prayer from the website above show no real differences, except for the shades of meanings already discussed.
Some, like this one, do stretch things a bit, but the meaning of the Lord's Prayer isn't really changed by it, imo:
Matthew 6:9-13 The Voice (VOICE)
9 Your prayers, rather, should be simple,like this:
Our Father in heaven,
let Your name remain holy.
Bring about Your kingdom.
Manifest Your will here on earth,
as it is manifest in heaven.
Give us each day that day’s bread—no more, no less—
And forgive us our debts
as we forgive those who owe us something.
Lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
[But let Your kingdom be,
and let it be powerful
and glorious forever.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6:9-13&version=VOICE
It's getting really boring, imo. Especially as your own 'religion' revolves around deeply studying and finding metaphysical meanings in the words of this Jesus character that you believe is just an imaginary fairy-tale made-up by ... who exactly?
(edited ... sorry)
But it's just not true, apart from quite minor quibbles about the 'shades of meanings' of various words.
The various versions of the Lord's Prayer from the website above show no real differences, except for the shades of meanings already discussed.
Some, like this one, do stretch things a bit, but the meaning of the Lord's Prayer isn't really changed by it, imo:
Matthew 6:9-13 The Voice (VOICE)
9 Your prayers, rather, should be simple,like this:
Our Father in heaven,
let Your name remain holy.
Bring about Your kingdom.
Manifest Your will here on earth,
as it is manifest in heaven.
Give us each day that day’s bread—no more, no less—
And forgive us our debts
as we forgive those who owe us something.
Lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
[But let Your kingdom be,
and let it be powerful
and glorious forever.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6:9-13&version=VOICE
It's getting really boring, imo. Especially as your own 'religion' revolves around deeply studying and finding metaphysical meanings in the words of this Jesus character that you believe is just an imaginary fairy-tale made-up by ... who exactly?
(edited ... sorry)
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Thing is, if you and I can easily google different versions and compare them, so can the people who use those different versions -- and committed literalists are often the people who do study and compare bibles with the greatest intensity?
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You are not reading. Sheesh.
Thomas said (in Latin) 1500 words found in the bible (and a significant number in the illiad and Odyssey) are found nowhere else in documents (is not in other literature, not in other ancient documents) to which I replied jokingly the authors were making stuff up.
These are words the translators has to assume meanings out of context and from derivations if other words. (Hence all the variations in versions found at biblegateway as you pointed out). There is no argument
Thomas said (in Latin) 1500 words found in the bible (and a significant number in the illiad and Odyssey) are found nowhere else in documents (is not in other literature, not in other ancient documents) to which I replied jokingly the authors were making stuff up.
These are words the translators has to assume meanings out of context and from derivations if other words. (Hence all the variations in versions found at biblegateway as you pointed out). There is no argument
Ok, but it's not a big conspiracy to deceive. It doesn't spoil the authenticity even of that one line. Let alone the Lord's Prayer itself, or the gospels. It's not a scandalous revelation proving the authors were just making up the story.
The thread is about the Lord's Prayer. It is a very important part of the Christian faith and all Christian churches. Anyway, sorry if I got you wrong.
The thread is about the Lord's Prayer. It is a very important part of the Christian faith and all Christian churches. Anyway, sorry if I got you wrong.
Like I said, we changed it long ago...
From "lead us not in temptation" to "leave us not". I think maybe not the most accurate translation, but I don't believe in a G!d that would intentionally lead us astray
From "lead us not in temptation" to "leave us not". I think maybe not the most accurate translation, but I don't believe in a G!d that would intentionally lead us astray
yeah, quite the test. I always think of it when folks complain about their "job" how nice that selection of a word is...
Unity metaphysics deals with human situations we find in day to day life, how to use examples we find in the Bible to benefit us here and now.Nice, and I notice the metaphysical interpretation given works completely without any reference to God (outside the quoted passage)
Writing God out of the book of Job is quite a feat, lol. Now I'm really getting a headache ...
Be well! This was just about the commentary, not the biblical text.
Exactly, lol
A Cup Of Tea
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Ok, so as a bilingual: I find that this pops up now and again on these pages. The idea that language is very simple and straightforward. When you only know one language it is hard to distance oneself from the complexity of meaning. If I were to write this post in Swedish and then translate it over to English it would look very different in it's wording. Some words or expressions simply don't have a translation, you have to either stay literal and mess the hole message up or abandon the word for word translation in favor of the intent. So @wil, please be a bit more patient with translators, they can only get near enough, perfection is impossible.