Authority Figures

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Cino, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. I think of Deitrich Bonhoeffer and the actual choices he faced in time/space history.
     
  2. So we just wait for God to act when we witness injustice?

    I'm trying to relate this advice to the Pure Land way of no-calculation. Be back with you in, maybe, a few years.
     
  3. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Depends on how you understand the word.

    Thomas mentioned "not fawning" to authority. That would be idolatrous, almost, right?

    Leo Tolstoi's "The Kingdom of Heaven is Within You" has many traits of Anarchism.

    There's a bunch of anarchists in my town, a remnant of the many-faceted movement that brought down the GDR regime in '89, who call their meeting-place the "Church from below".

    He had a plan, though, right? Confronting the authority of the Pharaoh. He had rebelled, murdering an authority figure prior to his flight into the desert. He was not just passively and obediently waiting for things to turn out for the best.

    And once in authority himself, he had to deal will all kinds of rebellions against his leadership himself. He even abused his authority, at the well...
     
  4. I was dipping into some Eckhart where he expounds on these words....

    Again, God loves for his own sake, acts for his own sake: that means that he loves for the sake of love and acts for the sake of action.......thus God created the world so that he might keep on creating. The past and future are both far from God and alien to his way.

    Suzuki makes the comment that "God's work is sheer love, utterly free from all forms of chronology and teleology."

    He also adds that Eckharts words "will not sound strange to Buddhist cars"........Books produced for e-readers must try harder! :)
     
  5. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    I didn't say that .. there are different ways of approaching things.
    Populist protest can lead to anarchy. What's wrong with democratic discourse?

    Now you may say that it will get you nowhere against an oppressor .. but anybody can claim that, whatever political persuasion.
     
  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    Yes G-d did have a plan .. and G-d's plans are the best of plans :)
     
  7. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    Ohohoh! Maybe our perception of time and space creates the illusion of order, BUT IT'S ALL IN OUR MINDS!
     
  8. As seems to be in order.........no, I did not say that.
     
  9. I think we may all need to choose our words with more care.
     
  10. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    No, >I< said that!
     
  11. Oh, sorry! I thought you were drawing an inference from my words.

    But it was all in my mind......:)

    (But as I posted elsewhere, I will withdraw to the Pure Land for a while and develope the Saichi thread)
     
  12. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    Most of it is over my head, but I follow with interest!
     
  13. It has been said that the very simplest things are nevertheless very complex to explain in words. I am truly a simple soul, genuinely seeking my own clarity of mind. Maybe we all have trouble understanding another - and do we ever?
     
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  14. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    There are always glimpses, I wouldn't say it is enough, but it is what we got.
     
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  15. stranger

    stranger lost in the night

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    I'll have to think on this one for awhile... :)
     
  16. I can't really remember where the idea about "time and space" came from. It sounds like something from a Terry Pratchett novel but I don't think so. (What was from a Terry Pratchett novel was this little guy who "either knew where he was going or where he was, but never both at the same time." I can relate to that! :) )
     
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  17. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Difficult choices. He publicly opposed the nazi embrace of his church. Other church leaders chose to close a deal with the German state. Almost everybody from that time is dead now, one way or another. Bonnhoefer is mainly remembered for his poem on planting apple trees on the eve of destruction, but the other deal with the German State is still in place...

    How we choose to arrange ourselves with authority can have lasting consequences.
     
  18. More relevant to the Revelation thread.......I once read "Letters and Papers From Prison" by Bonhoeffer. Finishing it, I felt I had got so much from it that I turned back to the beginning and started again. This time I reached half-way and begun to wonder just what it was I had found before! Strange. It might just be that I have the memory span of a goldfish!

    (Again, another thought.....that we might just find more "glimpses" in the writings of those who grapple with the same questions as ourselves, more than those who give voice to our "conclusions")
     
  19. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    Glimpses are fleeting!

    I very much agree with this.
    A bit like reading the headline of a recipe and not reading the ingredients.
     
  20. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    What about the authority of spiritual teachers?

    What scope should it have? What's it founded on?

    When is is legitimate, within the bounds of spiritual etiquette, to challenge a teacher's spiritual, or even mundane, authority?
     

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