The Highest Truth

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by CobblersApprentice, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Is the highest truth universal? Is your highest truth higher than mine or is simply different from my highest truth?
    There is the answer, not here...there
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    To complicate matters, the quality of truth is universal and is non-negotiable. Truth either is or isn't, there are no grey areas. It's like pregnancy, either you is or your ain't, you can be a little bit ...

    But the 'facts' we describe as 'true' are themselves contingent, so true now, but tomorrow?

    Depends whether one seeks the highest ruth, or my highest truth?

    I'd like to say yes, but obviously the answer is no ...
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Interesting ... can't speak for Buddhism, but I wonder if folk traditions 'mature' towards a central point? Is that because of an emerging patriarchy, or because of natural hierarchy? I've always struggle with polytheism because you can't have two absolutes, two infinities, etc., without some over-arching element?

    Folk religion considered in the way of the Greek philosophical tradition?

    Just wonderin' ...

    I tend to see evolution more than a singular striving towards a distant goal (an hypothesis, like 'progress', that was put forward by privileged white men) as the play of 'interdependent duties or causalities' (a theory posed by Lynn Margulis, pioneering evolutionary theorist, co-developer of the Gaia Hypothesis)
     
  4. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Buddhism is a collection of teachings and practices revolving around the problem of suffering, and of course various folk traditions in its own right, wherever it took root. It explicitly does not contain a creation account of universal origins, rather, one of the tenets in early Buddhism which were carried on into later schools as far as I know, is that universal origins are unfathomable. Philosophically, Buddhism is concerned with understanding the origins not of the universe, but of suffering, and one of the central teachings regarding this subject ("Dependent Origination") can be summed up colloquially "if you start out from ignorance, you end up suffering".

    Buddhism nowadays is of course thoroughly patriarchal and hierarchical, in spite of its origins among the homeless, religiously non-aligned and experimental drop-outs of ancient Indian society.


    Folk traditions tend to be concerned with mundane stuff like staying in touch with the ancestors, getting help with life's challenges like finding a partner, feeding and sheltering a family, curing illnesses, and with celebrating a good party now and then, over the year and during one's lifetime. If they are centered on anything, then it is "the family", a collective, which, while a focus, is hardly a "central point" (judging by my own family).

    In terms of ancient Greece, not the philosophers or the wandering ascetics, but rather the homemakers, buying properly ritually butchered meat, spilling libations to the local gods and spirits, visiting the local Asclepeion for help with a troublesome knee, joinging the annual procession and subsequent party, perhaps getting a little lead tablet with a spell or curse on it to boos business fortunes...
     
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  5. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

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    Yes and yes ... I guess it's a lot like what's perfect for me would be different than what's perfect for you. My highest truth would be more about each individual entity finding a place of greatness or happiness, mixed with some (if only slight) hardship to help spur more growth and to help motivate change and further development. Your's would be?
     
  6. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    The problem with identifying the ultimate truth is perception
     
  7. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

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    I actually think that's the answer ....
     
  8. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Can you explain? Are we doing it wrong? What's the matter with perception?
     
  9. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    It may be like thinking I've reached the top of the hill, only to know the road still winds on upward?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Even the highest angel wonders in awe at the higher light that always recedes ... always higher and brighter?
     
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  11. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    I alone am responsible for my spiritual relationship to and with God. No one controls me but me, although I may be influenced, only I control me.

    No one can produce enlightenment in another person. You either get it or you don't. There are multitudes of what may be described as enlightenment and no one but you decides the nature of your enlightenment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  12. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Onward and upward?

    But what goes up must come down?
     
  13. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    is that the theory of relativity or gravity
     
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  14. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Speaking of control, how does that mesh with surrender?

    Some kind of controlled letting go?
     
  15. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Only in nature @Cino. That is the natural view. Darkness is absolute. The centre of the earth is the deepest down possible. The devil is gravity, that drags all natural life down to death and to subduction and destruction in the fires of hell at the centre of the earth. But there are stars. And we look upward?
     
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  16. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    More times than not desperate people calls for desperate measures. When we come to a point in life by which we have nothing to lose we may be willing to consider different options in life, because our present way of living does not work. Thus the Epiphany of enlightenment and suddenly we get it. By the way, manipulative behavior such addiction does not go away unless the behavior is replaced such as spirituality.
     
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  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    I completely agree. Impractical to replace something with nothing. It may sound good in theory, but it doesn't work out at grassroots level, on the ground?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  18. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    And when we approach a star, upwards becomes downwards as its gravitational field draws us in.

    Our personal devils should be known, acknowledged, not denied or ignored. To ignore them is to give them more opportunity to mess with us. Jesus called them by their name. The Buddha looked the demon of death and decay in the eye, saying, "I see you, Mara".

    Look at all the gurus who got highly enlightened, yet when they left their ashrams and moved to western society, they got eaten by their shadow. The brighter the light, the darker the shadow.

    We need to own our darkness, perceive it, come to an understanding with it, otherwise we will act it out unwittingly.
     
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  19. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    They are so closely related, they are probably describing the same phenomenon, in physics.

    In terms of enlightenment: It is customary in some circles to wait for a year and a day before forming conclusions about any epiphany. Relatively short for such a grave matter...

    (edit: I am pleased the pun works the way it does. I did put some thought into my reply, this is what I got for it. Epiphanies are powerful stuff, in my experience, and they do weird things to the mind, not always obviously healing and cleansing)
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  20. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    This is an amazing conversation! I hope we keep it going for some time. I appreciate the candor and directness. This is enlightening in a sense rarely found on the internet. Thank you!
     
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