Keep the sabbath holy

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by wil, Sep 4, 2019.

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  1. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Precisely. To 'fulfill' is to 'complete' – everything leads to Him. He is the Alpha and the Omega (cf Revelations) "Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.'" (John 8:58).

    But no-one is doing that, so I don't see the point of this?

    Oh, dear me, no, you're quit wrong there.

    I rather think He said, and did, a lot more than that ...

    Oh dear. This is sailing rather too close to a political wind for my liking — so please be aware I will be on my guard from here on.

    Might I ask, do you count yourself as one among the gun-loving bible-thumpers?
     
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  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Who are they? Can you clarify a bit?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    In the "beginning" (Genesis), the alpha, precedes Abraham, it does not precede the creator. As per the Law/commandments, Paul asserted that the law has been nailed to the cross, which is removing ascribed (written) decrees. That is apparently why you think you are no longer under the law, which is the Word of God, written by his own hand/finger. Paul's sins remained, and the penalty for sin is death. Paul and his followers all died, and many of his present followers remain among the walking dead. As for your assertions, based on the traditions of men, well, I wouldn't count on them to protect you from having to drink from the cup of the wrath of God. As for you calling me "chum", we are not friends, brothers, or am I used as fish bait. Your use was based more on your attitude of superiority, as in being a "super moderator", who thinks they have the power of life and death. Contrary to what Paul said, his followers remain in their sin, which is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4-5), and anyone who sins does not "abides" or "knows" "Him", Yeshua. The one who "practices sin is of the devil". Paul would simply be the false prophet, whose followers are on the "broad...way" to "destruction (Matthew 7:13) Sin brings death and disease, which can be gaged in line with ones medical consultations.

    Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, 14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.…
     
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    @Thomas is not like that at all. IMO he is trying to debate you. Knock off the personal insults. No-one has insulted you.

    EDIT
    Also he has a black belt in karate, lol
     
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  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    He appears to not be debating but making assertions with no credible backing. That may influence you, but then it appears you do a lot of the same.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    The saints with respect to Daniel 7:22, are the people of the book, the Jews, who were crushed by the heads of the beasts (Babylonia, Persia, Greeks, and the Romans) until the kingdom is set up being ruled from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16).

    Daniel 7:22 22until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

    With respect to Revelation 13:7, the saints are the same Judah (Hosea 5:14) being crushed by the Lord by way of the nations/beasts for their harlotry.

    As for Revelation 17:6, the people of the book, the Jews have been persecuted by the woman (pagan churches, and Catholic church, a daughter of Babylon), who sat on the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, those being the nations who persecuted the Jews from Nebuchadnezzar through to the present Roman head with help of the Roman Catholic church, whose role can be shown in their helping get the Jew killing Nazis out of Europe into Argentina.
     
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    That is totally incorrect. He backs everything with scholarship and references. That's the point. He is entirely credible. His scholarship is impeccable. He has studied the subject from several angles and sources and he knows what he's writing about. It's possible to learn a lot from him.
    You do have credible backing for the above statement? I'm not saying it's untrue, but asking for credible evidence to support it
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Clearly the Father, Son and Holy Spirit precede all.

    Oh dear, you really have misunderstood Paul if you think that.

    and likewise, you misunderstand me.

    You're not the first to make this mistake — when accused of just that by his contemporaries, Paul said:
    "And neither in the temple did they find me disputing with any man, or causing any concourse of the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city: Neither can they prove unto thee the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess to thee, that according to the way, which they call a heresy (the teachings of 'the Nazarenes'), so do I serve the Father and my God, believing all things which are written in the law and the prophets" (Acts 24:12-14, italics my emphasis)

    In his own words:
    Romans 2:12: "For whosoever have sinned without the Law (Gentile), shall perish without the Law; and whosoever have sinned in the Law (Jew), shall be judged by the Law."
    So how can you think Paul looks seeks to 'remove' the Law?

    How does Paul see 'the Law'?
    "Now we know, that what things soever the law speaketh, it speaketh to them that are in the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be made subject to God." (Romans 3:19)
    What he seems to be saying is that without the Word of God, there is no Law (there is a moral law, the law of men, but that's it). No man can decide the Law of God, that is for God alone to declare. We can speculate, but we cannot know. If, however, one believes in the Law as revealed by God, then there is no more speculation 'every mouth may be stopped' – the Lord God has spoken. and the world is subject to Him under His law.

    "Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin." (v20)
    Sin is a wilful disobedience towards God. How can we know sin? Through the Law. Without the law, we have no measure of sin.

    Without labouring the point, Paul's theology rests on an unshakeable belief in the Law, as given by God, and the utterances of the Prophets, who recall Israel to the remembrance of the Law. No-one in Scripture was more conscious of our nature, our weakness, than Paul.

    Can we agree this asserts the Law and the Prophets?

    The narrative then goes on to discuss what has happened on the Cross, but we should not get ahead of ourselves, or rather, we should first and foremost agree that:
    1: The Law is the Law,
    2: That whatever happened on the Cross,
    3: The Law is still the Law.

    In his own words: "Do we, then, destroy the law through faith? God forbid: but we establish the law." (v31)
     
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  9. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually I have three, and I'll have you know they're in the Gentlemanly Art of Swordsmanship, but I'm not bragging! :rolleyes:
     
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  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Well this is where I'm confused too. If the way to the kingdom of heaven or life eternal or whatever you want to call it is by following the ten commandments of Moses, also arguably by giving away all we have to the poor and following the Christ -- where do the worthless shepherd Peter and false prophet Paul say otherwise?

    And where do the writers of the other gospels argue that disciples of Christ should not follow the ten commandments of Moses?
     
  11. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    I believe in computing there is an either/or gate and also an and/or gate? Either/Or reduction becomes too simplistic? It works for a first choice by direct binary, but it doesn't continue to work by extension? Things get complicated quickly?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    You seem to misunderstand false prophet Paul, foremost of sinners, and son of the devil (1 John 3:9). He is all things to all men, a Greek (without the law) to Greeks, and a Pharisee of Pharisees to the Jews. And why do you, a supposed Gentile, not keep the commandments, such as indicated by this topic (Sabbath)? Aren't all, even foreigners/Gentiles to keep the commandments/Sabbath if they wish to worship on God's mountain?(Isaiah 56:6) As for you thinking transgressing the law is not a sin for you, well, apparently the result of iniquity holds for "every one", which is death (Jeremiah 31:30). Paul may imply that you will not sleep/die, but you ultimately will, despite Paul's claims.

    And your ridiculous claim that the son precedes all, is absurd. The son is the alpha, which means he has a beginning. The Father has no beginning.

    As for your faith, the demons believe, and yet they shutter, for they know their end is coming never (James 2:19).

    As for your previous post question of whether I am a deplorable. Well, I have a sawmill in God's country, where they love God and and guns. I was at the store the other day, and this lady not only open carried her weapon, she had a matching purse to her holster. My Hispanic restaurant owner, a legal immigrant, keeps his business open, no segregation or masks required, and he carries a concealed weapon, which is legal in my state. When I go to the local bar/barbecue restaurant, people don't wear masks, nor do they segregate, and the owner comes over to sit with me and we talk politics (with no masks).

    As for you being a black belt, my brother is a black belt and competed regionally. Now, he like myself, is older, and his injuries are showing, and he is a self defense and weapons instructor for the regional police academy, only now he focuses on weapons training. In God's country weapon proficiency is better than trying to kick someone in the head. Hand to hand combat is only effective within short range. While only owning 3 long guns and 2 pistols, my proficiency exceeds arm length. In the rural area where my wood lot is located, everyone owns and is capable of using their weapons effectively. Having country land means having your own firing range. When the city dwellers (and their "impeccable scholarship") flee their crumbling cities (Revelation 16:19), they will probably find the door shut (Isaiah 26:20) to God's country.
     
  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    The topic is "keep the sabbath", which correlates with the 4th commandment given to Israel and foreigners who wish to worship on God's mountain (Isaiah 56:6). Do you keep the Sabbath and carry the mark of God (Deuteronomy 6:8), or do you keep the decree/commandment of the beast, written in 321 AD, and keep the day of the sun (Sunday) as your day of rest, and carry the mark of the beast, which would preclude you from even being part of the 1st resurrection at which time the kingdom of God is physically established on earth for 1000 years. The law of the beast still reigns today in the form of the blue laws.

    As for to keeping the commandments to "enter into life", well while that is a spiritual component of the kingdom of God, it is in fact not the physical representation of the Kingdom of God, which happens after "the inhabitants of the earth" are punished for their iniquity (Isaiah 26:21), and the dead will arise (Isaiah 26:19). As for the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17), Peter, he apparently compelled his followers to sell everything and give the proceed not to the poor, but to his stewardship. Much like what the Catholic church does today when they require their 10% cut. Don't give the money to the widows and orphans directly, but as with widows wanting the sins of their dead husbands forgiven, they were to give the money directly to the church for the forgiveness of their dead husband sins (indulgences), which supposedly the church spent on building Peter's cathedral. As for Paul, he collected money to supposedly give to the widows and orphans of Jerusalem. Apparently Jerusalem liked the money so much they chased him out of the city, and he had to call upon Caesar and a cohort of Roman soldiers to save his life.
     
  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Because I take Sunday off instead of Saturday? Get real. God's got better things to do IMO
    What do you know about the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church doesn't demand a 10% cut. That's your American evangelists.

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/issues/february-17th-2017/a-worldwide-force-for-good/

    ... The Church operates more than 140,000 schools, 10,000 orphanages, 5,000 hospitals and some 16,000 other health clinics. Caritas, the umbrella organisation for Catholic aid agencies, estimates that spending by its affiliates totals between £2 billion and £4 billion, making it one of the biggest aid agencies in the world.

    Even these numbers only tell half the tale. Caritas does not include development spending by a host of religious orders and other Catholic charities, while most of the 200,000 Catholic parishes around the world operate their own small-scale charitable projects which are never picked up in official figures. Establishing like-for-like comparisons is hard, but there can be little doubt that in pretty much every field of social action, from education to health to social care, the Church is the largest and most significant non-state organisation in the world....

    https://m.csmonitor.com/World/Afric...e-against-AIDS-a-key-player-hits-a-crossroads

    ... Catholic Church administers 25 percent of all AIDS treatment worldwide, especially in hard-to-reach rural areas. But it's facing new obstacles as funding declines and African governments are under pressure to provide services themselves...

    Evil Catholics


    Bradbourne Mutemwa Lepers.jpg John R Bradbourne.jpg
    Try to confine yourself to what you know, imo
     
  15. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    I have run into good economic and historical scholars, but with respect to religious scholars, they appear to be like computers. Garbage in, garbage out. It is all based on the traditions of men which simply leads to a further indoctrination of the precepts of men. Their conclusions are either right or the are wrong, and they appear to be wrong most of the time, if not all of the time. Darkness begets more darkness.
     
  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    What's your faith?
     
  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    If someone asks me that, I can usually reply in a couple of paragraphs, and without throwing in a whole lot of quotes from scripture?
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    I will admit, my contact with the Roman Catholic Church basically ended around 1956 when I moved with my family from city to rural, and I basically had little to do with the Catholic church after that. At that time my dad paid 10% of his income to the Catholic Church, and I had to sit through the Sunday sermon which centered around giving that 10% to the church. I doubt if that has changed. As for indulgences, that is an old practice for which until at least recently, the church still has a book of indulgences. It is kind of like confession. Commit adultery, and 3 prayers to Mary will save your soul, except with indulgences, they seem to be more into a monetary transaction to save your soul. As a 2nd grader, I never got past 10 prayers to Mary. Apparently St Peter's cathedral was paid for through the use of indulgences. I doubt if the widows got anything for their money. Their husbands remain in the grave until this day. They never went to the fires of the Catholic purgatory. They simply remained in the grave.
     
  19. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Staff Member

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    Which laws do you keep, @2ndpillar?

    And what do you do or let be, in your keeping the Sabbath?
     
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  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Like I said, binary simplicity cannot come close to encompassing reality. Discussion can be a learning and sharing process.

    But it's not possible to learn anything if I'm not interested in hearing anything except what I've made up my mind that's what I'm going to think, no matter what anyone else tells me, regardless of the facts they might present?
     
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