True and false wisdom

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Tariki

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The search for wisdom is part of all religions. The Bible has wisdom calling out............."I am better than jewels, nothing you want can compare with me" (Proverbs 8:11) In the Buddhist faith, Conze has defined wisdom as "the mind/heart thirsting for emancipation seeing direct into the heart of reality."

And William Blake has written.........

"What is the price of Experience? do men buy it for a song?
Or wisdom for a dance in the street? No, it is bought with the price
Of all that a man hath, his house, his wife, his children.
Wisdom is sold in the desolate market where none come to buy,
And in the wither'd field where the farmer plows for bread in vain"

My question is, how do we tell true from false wisdom? (As Blake continues......"It is an easy thing to triumph in the summer's sun")

In the past my own head has been filled with the "wisdom" of a thousand books............fortunately,reality has often come along and kicked it out of me! The New Testament speaks of the true wisdom, the "foolishness of God" which is "folly to the Greeks".......(the so called "wise")

Once again, how tell true from false.............how do we uncover the false within us..........how do we truly see that possibly so much that passes for understanding/wisdom within us is unreal........conceit and vanity, empty and vain........

"Will your anchor hold?" goes the old Christian hymn. Do we have to wait for the strike of harsh reality to reveal to us our false wisdom?
 
Hello :)

1 Corinthians 3:18-20 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness"; and again, "The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile."

I think that sums it up perfectly with me. I usually reject what I consider false wisdom by judging the fruits of the person speaking it. I know if someone is speaking from Godly wisdom because I can judge their fruits and the wisdom using the bible as a refrence.

I want to thank you for this post because on another thread I was becoming hauty and self righteous with someone else. And in looking at some scriptures just now caused me to realize I have to repent and ask for help.
 
Here's a somewhat paraphrased Buddhist saying:

"The fool thinks he knows wisdom; the wiseman thinks he knows nothing."

:)
 
I said:
Here's a somewhat paraphrased Buddhist saying:

"The fool thinks he knows wisdom; the wiseman thinks he knows nothing."

:)
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I think that above says it best.:)

I am seeing wisdom, understanding, quick understanding and knowledge as 4 different things.
You know we can ask for wisdom from the Lord also.

The book of Proverbs and Solomon is an excellent source for understanding and getting wisdom.

Not sure if there is such a thing as 'foolish wisdom'. I am seeing that we can be influenced or manipulated by either foolishness or the other which is wisdom.

Sometimes I see wisdom as something hidden.
Other times I see wisdom as trusting the 'GUTT FEELING'
Other times I see wisdom as a balance of things and not just different things singled out.

You can also see PRUDENCE, WHOLESOME, TRUTH, etc.

Proverbs 12:15The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
12:16A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame.
12:17He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
12:18There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.
12:19The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.
12:20Deceit is in the heart of them that imagine evil: but to the counsellors of peace is joy.

13:1A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.
 
Thanks for the responses..........

The question I posed has been a constant preoccupation of my mind for many years................Faithfulservant, your words bought to mind the obvious answer............"By their fruits shall ye know them"! (Yet looking into our own lives for "fruit" can lead to self-righteousness, and it is with our own modes of self-deception that I am most concerned........perhaps we need to remain oblivious to our "own" fruit?) Anyway, whatever, as St Paul said to the Corinthians...."What we have got we have received, so why glory, as if we had not received it?"

A few years ago on the net I valued very highly the various posts of a lady who had lost her son in a road accident.............because of this her words had an authenticity to my mind lacking in so many other posts. Her "wisdom" had been - and was being - tested.........

"It is an easy thing............to see a god on every wind and a blessing on every blast;
To hear sounds of love in the thunder storm.............to rejoice in the tents of prosperity...........
Thus could I sing and thus rejoice: but it is not so with me" (as Blake continues!)

Often I have read examples of "masters" whose words are genuinely life giving, yet whose lives give evidence of ethics far from perfect! And I often ponder on the relationship between "wisdom" and compassion........"twin pillars" according to the Buddhist faith. Perhaps this is so............

Anyway, Brian, I think you were onto the words from the Dhammapada, Chap 5 verse 4,........"A fool who is conscious of his folly is thereby wise; the fool who thinks himself wise is the one to be called a fool" (Cleary Translation, and Cleary then quotes Confucius......."Shall I teach you how to know something? Realize you know it when you know it, and realize you don't know it when you don't".................perhaps easier said than done!)

And thanks Bandit for your very quoteable quotes!
 
The wise, will look into the mirror from time to time, in order to see the fool, and remember not to be like him. The wise will look into the loving eyes of another, and remember to be like that.

v/r

Q
 
Dear Tariki

Tariki said:
My question is, how do we tell true from false wisdom? (As Blake continues......"It is an easy thing to triumph in the summer's sun")In the past my own head has been filled with the "wisdom" of a thousand books............fortunately,reality has often come along and kicked it out of me! The New Testament speaks of the true wisdom, the "foolishness of God" which is "folly to the Greeks".......(the so called "wise")Once again, how tell true from false.............how do we uncover the false within us..........how do we truly see that possibly so much that passes for understanding/wisdom within us is unreal........conceit and vanity, empty and vain........ "Will your anchor hold?" goes the old Christian hymn. Do we have to wait for the strike of harsh reality to reveal to us our false wisdom?
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A wonderful subject Tariki

From my perspective based upon degrees of experience, wisdom you read is purely knowledge for knowledge only becomes wisdom once you have integrated the knowledge. Knowledge is only integrated through the evidence of your own personal experience and through this experience you are able to establsh how far you have come with your integration, hence the tests from the soul on the way......when one as truly integrated the knowledge then it truly becomes wisdom. Where is wisdom known? In the intelligence of the heart not the intellect of the mind.

This is what Jesus was trying to explain in the Gospel of Thomas when he speaks of the parable about having foundations built on sand versus foundations built on rock. He is referring to our own foundations within ourselves.

True of false knowledge can be established by feeling from the heart of the soul, this is knowing. If it resonates with your heart it is your truth, now we may take a book and some sits beautifully in our hearts and the rest we can reject; this may be because it does not fit us now and it does not mean that it will not fit us in the future.

being love

Sacredstar
 
Hello Tariki

You said ................Faithfulservant, your words bought to mind the obvious answer............"By their fruits shall ye know them"! (Yet looking into our own lives for "fruit" can lead to self-righteousness, and it is with our own modes of self-deception that I am most concerned........perhaps we need to remain oblivious to our "own" fruit?) Anyway, whatever, as St Paul said to the Corinthians...."What we have got we have received, so why glory, as if we had not received it?"

I believe that we need to constantly test ourselves by our fruit so we arent falling into self righteousness.. The wonderful thing about God in my life is that he lets me know one way or another if Im falling into that pit. He keeps me humble even by giving me hard lessons.
 
You might devote your life to philosophy and end up asking more questions then you first started off with. Wisdom does exist but wisdom comes at a price of experience and depending on the wisdom most of the good stuff is created through suffering ;) There is 2 sorts of wisdom one of the bad and one of the good, the one of the good is the one that makes you realize the more you think about things the less you know, that’s where I believe people start to develop faith :)
 
hmm..yes as Jesus said through knowing suffering one can learn how not to suffer. Self mastery through self development is the key and alignment of our energies, two become one, then human self becomes one with divine self two become one, then we become with the source of all that IS, then tests have no reason for being.

The key aspect is detachment without attachment there is no suffering another thing that Jesus attempted to teach us in his parables and sayings. Attachment creates emotional reactions which is lower levels of consciousness, once we have integrated having an acceptance of that which IS we make a leap in consciousness.

People are attached to people, material things, security, beliefs, expectations, outcomes, life/living etc and ultimately this creates the suffering. But yet if we can move beyond all of this through self development, healing the needs within and raise our consciousness. Being the spiritual divine beings that we really are then peace and good health can reign.

Spiritual beings having a human experience.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
faithfulservant,

for all practical intents and purposes what you say is correct...........to keep an eye on yourself, being aware of hypocrisy, seeing "fruit" within etc etc.........this can help us judge the true degree of our wisdom. However, without describing myself and my path in too grandiose a manner (!) I am very attracted to the "negative" tradition that seems to flourish in all faiths in some degree or other..............exemplified by the words of the Christian mystic St John of the Cross.........."If we wish to be sure of the road we tread on we should close our eyes and walk in the dark"...............and of Eckhart, who says that so long as we are aware of a "will" within us that seeks to do the will of God, we do not have the true poverty of spirit that is required............the poverty that "knows nothing, desires nothing and possesses nothing".

Quahom, I like the idea of the "wise" looking from time to time into the mirror in order to see the fool.............very approprate to my own Pure Land Buddhist path, where we "return to the foolish self to be saved by Amida" rather than following the path of the Sages, where one developes wisdom and gains enlightenemnt.

And Sacredstar, you speak of embodiment, realization, actualisation of the truth.........which is the "true" wisdom. In Pure Land, enlightenment is a "given" and therefore any step of ours towards it is a step away........even faith/trust itself is "given" and is not of ourselves..........in the true non-dualist Buddhist way! In a paradoxical way we already embody the truth, no matter how poor the expression.............and it is in pure acceptance that the Pure Land is realized NOW, in this life, at this moment. All this in spite of the blind passions that motivate our every thought, word and deed. (Well, thats the theory! and I think anyone can see how such theories are open to abuse! Not least in false wisdom!)

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and responses.
 
I like these ones.

Mt 7:13-14"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Lu 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
 
Speaking in Christian terms, the way is "narrow" because of the words in the NT concerning "being chosen before the foundations of the world".......As Desmond Tutu once said,these words tell us "that there is nothing we can do that can make God love us more, and nothing we can do to make God love us less". The word is "grace". Yet we always seek to "deserve" and "justify" ourselves.

As said before, any step "towards" is a step away............just how "narrow" can you get?
 
DT Strain said:
What I have found most productive in the search for wisdom, and seems to be a good first step, is simply to begin by asking oneself, "What is wisdom?" So many people seek it and never even ask what it is they seek.
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Well, its always good to ask questions..........I did give a working definition in my first post...........by the Buddhist Edward Conze............"The mind/heart,thirsting for emancipation, seeing direct into the heart of reality".

Or maybe simply "the quality of being wise"....as a cheap dictionary would have it.................or "intelligence drawing upon experience and governed by prudence"......or "a store of knowledge, and such knowledge converted into teaching".............

I think we can consider ourselves wise.........perhaps false wisdom is in part the self conscious thought that we ARE wise..........perhaps true wisdom is totally unaware of itself, and issues within each eternal moment in perfect accord/response to reality...........(Thomas Merton has said that "we are already what we need to be...........all is grace..........a grace that nevertheless can never be finally claimed, but needs to be realised afresh in each moment"..........words that seem to relate here in some way, at least to my mind)

The OT also has the lines...... "Wisdom and good judgement live together, for wisdom knows where to discover knowledge and understanding"

Anyway............"false" wisdom.......Again, there is the simple story in the Pali text the "Majjhima Nikaya" which speaks of Mistress Vedehika........spoken of far and wide as being kind and loving, yet her maid says this is merely becasue she (her maid) does an excellant job. The maid states that should she not continue like this people would see the true Mistress! She puts this to the test, and sure enough, within days good old Mistress Vedehika is chasing the maid around the house whacking her with a stick!

Fair weather "love"..................false "wisdom"......a kindness born of good fortune and a fair wind rather than a deep and profound and true relationship with reality-as-is..........

"Will your anchor hold?"

What is the relationship between words/teaching.........and true compassion/ethics? I think of a certain Tibetan master who has written many books and is looked upon as "enlightened".........who upon reaching the West ended up driving cars into brick walls in a drunken stupour.........not to mention other unsavory episodes.............(and we are told by some......."who are we, the unenlightened, to dare judge the actions of the enlightened"....sad words indeed!)...........and perhaps of Krishnamurti, whose leactures and talks I have often found life giving, yet whose personal life, at least judging by some accounts, was full of what can only be seen as hypocrisy..............please understand, I am not mud racking, just seeking "wisdom".........and understanding.
 
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Leading on from my last post, and perhaps changing the direction of the topic just a little bit...............from reading a book called "Halfway Up The Mountain" concerning premature claims to enlightenment...........(as one wag once said, "all claims to enlightenment are premature!")..........concerning "enlightenment"/"kensho"/"insight" etc etc.........do such things NECESSARILY make us more fit for living in this world and relating to other human beings? In other words, there may be a real insight into the human condition (in the large) which is essentially unconnected with being human (in particular)

Wisdom/Compassion...........twin pillars?
 
I look at Compassion, Reason, and Discipline as the three primary virtues, making up all the others in different combinations of the primaries, like a color wheel. I also look at this triad as a system of action. Compassion provides the basis and motivation to virtue, Reason provides the best course to achieve compassion's aim, and Discipline provides the action to achieve virtue.

The three of them together, at the center of the color wheel, I refer to as wisdom (which I view as synonimous with complete virtue).

As for my previous post, asking "what is wisdom?" I'm not talking about a crude definition, but really seeking to understand what wisdom is. Why is it that we would call someone wise? What traits, behavior, and thoughts would they have that an unwise person would not? How does wisdom differ from intelligence? How does it differ from knowledge? No dictionary can answer this question, which should take a lifetime to answer properly.
 

Once again, how tell true from false.............how do we uncover the false within us..........how do we truly see that possibly so much that passes for understanding/wisdom within us is unreal........conceit and vanity, empty and vain........

A answer
The path of the Just is like the morning dawn that shines to full day.
The path of the Just shines more and more to a perfect day then you will not stumble when you run. Proverbs of Solomn are good for study.The Just scale every wall.
The Just are those who seek a matter without employing a deception, this is why the Just are able to scale every wall. To seek the Truth.
From The Ark realm, to advance in knowledge, a collective. A=Art in every word.

 
I have often wondered, if it is true that we operate from a conditioned mind, what part of our programming seeks to uncover our own self-deception? Is what we call "wisdom" an innate yet sleeping quality within us? When do we become so enamored of the truth that we are willing to throw away everything we think we know to truly see "things as it is"
I found this little free download, a conversation between Steven Harrison and Martin Kreschnecht {SP?} to be intriguing.
Doing Nothing - Self-Deception and the Fires of Transformation
 
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