Are you gods?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Amica2, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. Amica2

    Amica2 Member

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    Muslims we know 100% don't believe it. Jews are "divine children " in title as in the chosen race of humans. But do Christians now preach they are gods? According to the current Bibles we have, we find this in:

    Psalm 82:6: "you are gods and sons of God"

    John 10:34:"And Jesus answered, Isn't this written in your Law, I said: you are gods?"

    This floored me, for I either missed this reading the Bible, or it is a more recent change. If it's a more recent change, then it proves Islamic claim of altercation of the Bible. If not, then how do Christians understand these verses?

    Recently, I have been reading more spiritual explorations of religious beliefs and texts, and was surprised to see some Christians believing they are divine for "the God dwells inside " them.
     
  2. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls Staff Member

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    I would say that it's a question of communication / language.
    Our souls are "created" by God. Our souls "belong" to God. Our souls are "part" of God.

    Yes, we religious folk can all argue about the nature of souls and God, but it doesn't change the fact that
    we all return to whence we came .. i.e. God :)
     
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  3. Amica2

    Amica2 Member

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    Brother, salaam. All well said from our Islamic perspective. But I am curious what Christians believe about this? Not only do we have Christians claiming Jesus Christ was divine, but now we got the Bible saying that Jesus Christ claimed common people were divine. So how many gods are Christians to believe in?
     
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    None of the apostles ever compared themselves as equal to the Christ.
     
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  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Of course yes we do contain divinity within us: we have/are a soul that is a part of God. Doesn't mean that we are God, because we are mortal men who will die.

    The Christ conquered hell and rose again from death and is eternal and always was eternal.

    The words of Jesus can be quoted out of context. Jesus spoke in parables and often seemed to contradict himself because that is the nature of spiritual truth. It speaks to the soul. Imo
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  6. Amica2

    Amica2 Member

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    So, I went back to my amplified English Bible and 82:6 is the same as above mentioned, only has added explanation that "you are gods" because you judge in God's name. However, John 10:34 is different! Yet, if you Google it, and what I wrote in my post is what pops out!
     
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  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    To make it more confusing the gospels were written by different people separated by decades -- who sometimes referred to the earlier gospels, written before their own, with different perspectives, and sometimes differing accounts, lol.
     
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  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    You missed it. Check bible gateway to compare all the bible interpretations.

    But also know the are ALL interpretations....as his words were Aramaic and most of the bible was written in hebrew or quoine.

    Also know.that what you state has always been the belief of some...a minority...not all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2020 at 8:05 AM
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  9. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    There are also libraries of apocrypha which are not included in the standard books of the standard Bible. Some of them are patently false, while others are included in some Christian scriptures but not in others.
    https://www.interfaith.org/christianity/apocrypha/

    So ... can be deep waters ...
     
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  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Anyway, perhaps to read the whole chapter by John in which the quote is contained, for context. It's a short chapter. New KJV but several other versions:
    https://biblehub.com/kj2000/john/10.htm
     
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  11. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls Staff Member

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    Wa'alaikumsalam,
    As far as I know, it is only Mormons who suggest we are "gods" .. I'm not sure what they mean by this.
     
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  12. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls Staff Member

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    We are LIKE God, in the context that "He has made us in His image".
    That is, our souls can appreciate the absolute qualities such as Mercy and Forgiveness that the Almighty has.
    We are not EQUAL to God .. I would have thought that quite obvious.
     
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  13. Amica2

    Amica2 Member

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    RJM Corbet, thank you for your response. So, based on your response, do you believe your soul is divine? Also, how can anything divine die? All humans were given soul, so Christians are not the only one. If the answer to divine soul concept is that eternal life is with Christian God, then all other divine souls die?
    I do encounter Christians explaining things by using parables. And yet some claim they are actually divine.
    Interesting.
     
  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Yes, but not with the 'Christian God' alone.

    I know that God is and always has been there for anyone who calls to him in humility: any time, any place, any religion
    The Christ explained things using parables
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
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  15. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    I believe my soul has divine potential but it can die.
    A snake sheds its old skin. So the answer is I don't know these things, God knows these things?

    There are spiritual laws conveyed in scripture trying to help us as mortals to try to understand a bit -- but the map is not the territory?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
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  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Equally I know God's angels allow those who say: "I am God" to dance their dance and sing their song, because that's what they want to do, they have free will. I know that one day if they call they will not be denied, for all the folly

    Nor me: I will not be denied

    But I must do it. I must ask, I must turn. It has to be my own choice because I have free will?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  17. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    I am not a Christian, but, as a rabbi, let me note the following

    1) Jews are not a race and there is nothing in the Tanakh to the effect that Jews are "'divine children' in title as the chosen race of humans."
    2) I wouldn't count on the accuracy of the translation you are using. אלהים has more than one meaning and עליון while it refers to
    G-d does not translate as G-d.
    3) As noted I am not a Christian so I'm not going to comment on Christian scripture.
     
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  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I have also heard this my whole life...

    Do you know the origin?
     
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  19. Miken

    Miken Active Member

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    My knowledge of Hebrew is amateur at best but neither is it non-existent. But I am sure Rabbio will explain how I blew it.

    Psalm 82 (From Tehillim 81)
    1 G-d has taken his place in the divine council;
    in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
    2 “How long will you judge unjustly
    and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
    3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
    maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
    4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
    deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
    5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
    they walk about in darkness;
    all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
    6 I said, “You are gods,
    sons of the Most High, all of you;
    7 nevertheless, like men you shall die,
    and fall like any prince.”
    8 Arise, O G-d, judge the earth;
    for you shall inherit all the nations!

    In the Hebrew, the word elohim is used for G-d in verses 1 and 8 and for gods in verses 1 and 6. In v 1 and 8 the word elohim (G-d) is plural but since the associated verb is singular, this is recognizable as the plural intensive, which is in effect singular. In verses 1 and 6 the word elohim (gods) is plural and so is the associated verb, that is, referring to multiple entities.

    As noted by Rabbio, the word אֱלֹהִ֣ים has several meanings. One of them is ‘judges’. If we substitute judges for gods in the above, we get…

    1… in the midst of the judges he holds judgment:
    - G-d is berating the (human) judges for their misguided judgments
    6 I said, “You are judges,
    sons of the Most High, all of you;
    - but still only human

    The Psalm ends with a plea to G-d to come and judge righteously.

    To me, this seems to make much more sense than ‘gods’ or ‘angelic beings’ or any of the other translations that want to make them more than human. Human judges are judging corruptly.

    The Septuagint translates אֱלֹהִ֣ים as θεοί, which has the one and only meaning of ‘gods’. This is the word John uses and clearly intends to mean ‘gods’ when taken in the context of the passage. Which, in my scenario, is not the meaning of the Hebrew scriptures.
     
  20. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Staff Member

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    Thank you Miken, that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm not one to delve that deeply into Hebrew, but given the context, I've always taken those passages where god(s) is used with a lowercase G to mean those who sit in judgment and not an indication of their divinity.
     
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