EUHEMRISM- Mythology as Symbolically Glossed History

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by Ross S Marshall, May 3, 2021.

  1. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    This thread is for those who suspect mythology as hiding human history and real persons in prehistoric times. That mythology is the only place we can go to for extracting historical fragments of times long forgotten. The debate revolves around a few things: Mythology is not "fiction" because the ancients did not see their his("stories") as unreal or fictional but very real. the characters in mythology are ancient prehistoric persons "apotheosis-ized" (deified into "gods") by later superstitious descendants of the Tower of Babel, the older ancestors to cultures like the Greeks and Egyptians, etc. Another debate is whether to add to mythographic studies the Hebrew Genesis account and especially the chapter 10 Table of nations (Patriarchs).

    The argue goes two ways: 1.) Believers (Biblicists) say it speaks of real human events and people, therefore, should be looked at as an ancient history - they, at the same time deny this argument to the Gentile world mythologies - the genesis stories of other nations. 2.) The secular world (non-biblicists), as a general rule, will argue that Hebrew Genesis is fictional (mythological) like the other nations myths- but is kept separate out of being equal with mythology but allowing minority exceptions In other words, Biblicists avoid the paganistic polytheism of mythology because it's "devilish" and full of fake gods. The secularists avoid Genesis because its fictional and adds nothing to "real history." The only exceptions that deal with the Genesis stories of both the Hebrews and Gentiles are Biblical Euhemerists, those who SEE NOAH, his family, Genesis 10, and their histories in non-Biblical genesis accounts.

    This last position "Biblical Euhemerism" is the one we take in this Thread, that ALL the genesis stories of all nations including the Semitic peoples Genesis 10 RELATE to ONE universal mono-mythological his-"story".

    The following are the main premises or prospective means of character and ethnological identification and verification, comparative analysis, and ultimate synthesis of a mytho-history (i.e. history that has not yet been "proved" by archaeology).

    1. Genesis 10 and Mythological Pantheon comparisons.
    2. Comparative biographies - Constructs.
    3. Political intrigues derived from above comparisons.
    4. Synthesis of a proto-history.

    The following is an outline "list" of the comparative biographies of individual "gods" "deities" characters and figures used in synthesizing such proto-histories. So far, the last 200 years, it is now the only comprehensive list allowing a full sweep and synthesis of the pantheons and genesis stories of the world with the Hebrew Genesis. you will NOT find this in contemporary "psychologist-mythologists" such as Joseph Campbell or any others. And so far, the only indication of any synergism of pagan and biblical euhemerism are those who have happened upon NIMROD being Sargon the great of Akkad. This is only ONE of the many figures in Genesis 10 and until all the other patriarchs are considered equally as valid comparisons, a synthesis can never be done.

    The studies of Dr. John D. Pilkey and myself have done just this in over 3000 pages or seven volumes of books and is published on Amazon.

    This Thread subject is designed and opened for those who want to chance the subject and give feedback, whether positive or negative. Respectful debate is the only way to learn. I say, lets have fun with mythology!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2021
  2. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    1. Genesis 10 and Mythological Pantheon comparisons for your analysis:

    The Living Noahic World

    By Dr. John D. Pilkey

    Throughout this study ethnological names have served as sources for Noahic identifications. These names translate those of the rulers and gods of the Noahic world community into popular forms which, in some cases, last down to the present day.


    Patriarch Tribe Classification Location


    NOAH:

    Dedan: Dedan: ancient northwestern Arabia

    Lehab- (Geb): Libyans ancient Libya

    Siton Sitones (Finns): modern Finland


    SHEM:

    Aliyan Bal: Balts: modern Baltic states

    Brahma: Brahmins: modern Indian caste

    Dada (Adad): Tatars: modern Siberia

    Dardanus: Dardanians (Trojans): ancient Turkey


    Mummu: Mumuye: modern Adamawa West Africa

    The “Adamawa” group will be discussed under Seba, whose relationship to Shem is given by his co-membership in both the Cushite clan and Amorite kinglist.


    Sumu: Sumerians: ancient Mesopotamia

    Thor: Norwegians: modern Norway

    Icelanders: modern Iceland

    In this case I reason both from the prominence of Thor-Sig in the Icelandic Eddic pantheon and more from the complementary relationship of Norway to the Hamite Dan and Angle of Jutland; the Japhethite orientation of the Swedes and Lapps from Suilap; and Finland’s identity with Siton-Noah.


    Tös Khan: Turka: modern Gur-speaking West Africa

    Turkana: modern Kenya

    Turks :modern Turkey

    The name Turka is an unvoiced counterpart to Durga (Sheba-I), Shem’s diluvian wife. The Turks belong to the same Turco-Tataric branch of the Ural-Altaic stock as the Tatars listed under Shem’s name Dada above. Shem takes the name Tata as a ruler of Awan in the Sumerian Dynasty III period.

    [EDITOR: In the King List the “D” and “T” are interchangeable, for example: King Dudu may be spelled Tutu.]


    Mande Central Ivory Coast

    Gourma lies on the south bank of the northern loop of the Niger River in Mali. The Gur-speaking group includes six relevant tribes: the Gurma for Ham, two for Ham’s full brother Togarmah, one for the dominant West African patriarch Eber and one for Nahor Naram Sin. Both the Gur-speaking and Mande areas lie in West Sudan, that is, the region west of the nation of Sudan extending at the same latitude across West Africa. For Ham as Hanu, see the entry on Mizraim and the Han Chinese below.The people are known as Han; and the language, as Mandarin.

    Kirghiz Khan: Kirghis: modern Central Asia

    Tamusi : Musi remnant: Algonquian America

    Tammuz: Thamudeni: ancient northern Arabia

    Thamuditae: ancient northern Arabia


    JAPHETH:

    Atum Re: Egyptians: ancient Egypt

    Lacedaemon: Lacedaemonians: ancient Greece (Spartans)

    Lugh: Lygians: ancient German Poland

    Masluh: Massylians: ancient Tunisia

    Suilap: Suiones (Swedes): modern Sweden

    Lapps: modern Lapland (Norway, Sweden, Finland)

    Sumuabu

    (Zuabu) Suevi modern German Swabia

    Japhethites


    GOMER:

    Gomer: Cimmerians: ancient Anatolia (Turkey)

    Cymru (Wales modern Wales (United Kingdom) Brythonic Celts)

    Gimarrai: ancient River Halys (Anatolia)

    Gimira: modern Kushitic East Africa

    Llyr: Lurs remnant: Luristan (Iran)

    Mont: Mon Khmer: modern Cambodia


    MAGOG:

    Hurricano: Horites: ancient southern Palestine

    Hurrians: ancient Khabur River (Syria)

    Kalibum: Galibi (Caribs): modern Caribbean

    Kaline: Caribs: modern Guiana

    Magog: Gaelic Scots: modern Scotland (United Kingdom)

    Mango-Capac: Incas: modern Peru

    In the Sumerian King List, Magog appears as Kalibum, “Dog,” and Sidon as Kalbum. Sumerian etymology aside, I associate both names with Sidon-Ea’s Akkadian title “Karibu” and have repeatedly emphasized the Caribs as Sidon’s representatives in a complementary relationship to the Caddoan Javanites from Sidon’s personal family.


    MADAI:

    Madai: Medes: ancient Zagros Mountains (Iran)


    JAVAN:

    Ibranum: Iberni (Iverni): modern Ireland

    Javan: Yavanas: ancient Ionia (Turkey)

    Soma: Somali: modern Kushitic subgroup (Somaliland)


    TIRAS:


    Tyrsenus: Tyrsenoi: ancient Phrygia (Turkey)

    Rasena: (Etruscans): modern Tuscany (Italy)


    ASHKENAZ:

    Ashkenaz: Ashanti: modern Ivory Coast, Ghana

    [Ashganda]: Azande: modern Republic of Sudan, Kinshasa Congo, Central African Republic

    Although Ashkenaz was Noah’s postdiluvian white son, his leadership roles in distant migrations imposed his name on black, red and yellow populations. For the Kingdom of Ashanti, see the entry on Mizraim-Mandaru below.


    Kota

    Dakotans: modern Dakotas

    Guti: ancient western Iran

    Kota: modern Central Africa

    Royal Scythians: ancient Scythia (Russia)

    Yakuts: modern Siberia

    The personal name Kota is a hypothetical form based on the Dakotan variant names Lakota and Nakota, assuming that Kota, like Ganda, is the root of the name. But for the Bantu Ganda and Buganda see the entry on Sabtah below.


    Pelasgus

    Pelasgians: Vlachs: modern Greece, Romania

    Traditionally the Pelasgians were the first pre-Hellenic people of Greece. The eponym Pelasgus was reckoned a son of Inachus, a “first man” identifiable with Ashkenaz’s father Noah, the “first man” Manu of the East Indians. Although some scholars regard the Pelasgians as entirely mythical, others identify them with the Vlachs of Greece and Wallachians of Romania, chief people of the capital land of Bucharest. One of Graves’ meanings of “Pelasgus” is “seafarer.” This epithet is consistent with Ashkenaz’s character as the greatest seafaring colonist of the Noahic world. A Pelasgian colony in Greece harmonizes with Ashkenaz’ voyage to his great North American expedition.

    Wakanda: Kande remnant: East Africa

    [Wakanda, officially known as the Kingdom of Wakanda, is a small isolationist landlocked country located in East Africa, surrounded by mountain ranges, just off the Western Coast of Lake Victoria.]



    RIPHATH:

    Absyrtus: Afars: modern Ethiopia

    Adamu: Fulani-Adamawa: modern Cameroon (Adamawa)

    Adamawa owes its name to the modern 19th century ruler Adama, who was rewarded with the new emirate named for him in 1806 after a successful jihad against West African pagans. The Fulani are a Semitic-speaking people. The only argument for an association here is to suppose that the Muslim Emir Adama took his name from a Semitic history of Riphath-Seba-Adamu, both patriarch and ruler of the Amorites.


    Amor

    Amorites: ancient Jordan

    The name “Amorite” appears fourth among Canaan’s eleven vassals, only two of whom are Canaan’s own sons. Seba is one of the Amorite kings, Adamu. His high rank as the first Cushite vassal and important Indian and Egyptian gods Shiva and Osiris adds to the likelihood that he was the “Amorite” of the Canaanite list. The Amorites of Martu appear early in Sumerian history soon after the Tower of Babel incident.


    Daramulun: Native Australians modern Australia

    Kikku-siwe-tempti: Kikuyu: modern Kenya

    Olifat: Wolof : modern Senegal

    Yoruba: modern Niger west bank (Nigeria)

    Sabazius: Spaç: modern Albania

    Tamula: Tamils: modern India, Sri-Lanka


    TOGARMAH:

    Bacchus: Fulani-Bauci: modern Nigeria (Bauci)

    Sokar: Tocharians: ancient Sinkiang (Chinese Turkestan)

    Togarmah: Armenians: modern Armenia (Cappadocia)


    ELISHAH:

    Agenor: Canaanites: ancient Palestine

    Cenomanni: ancient Gaul

    Arakho: Arachosians: ancient Afghanistan

    (Alkla): Auliorci: ancient Gaul

    Robert Graves believes that the name Agenor was a Hellenic representation of the Canaanites. Elishah-Agenor was Poseidon-Sidon’s son and therefore Canaan’s grandson. The ethnological strength of this relationship lies in the complementary association among the Canaanites, Phoenicians of Elishah’s fellow Javanite Tarshish and the port of Sidon.


    Elishah: Alashiya: ancient Cypriotes (Alashiya-Cyprus)

    Eyeish: (Aliche) remnant Louisiana

    Iceni: ancient Britain



    TARSHISH:

    Bahina: Boii: ancient Gaul and Bohemia

    Phoenix: Pawnee (Dárāzhazh) remnant: Kansas, Nebraska

    Poeni: (Phoenicians): ancient Phoenicia (Lebanon)


    Tarshish: Dárāzhazh (Pawnee) remnant: Kansas, Nebraska

    J. R. Swanton’s The Indian Tribes of North America identifies the name Dárāzhazh as the Kiowa Apache name of the Pawnee.


    KITT:

    Cadmus: Caddo remnant: Texas

    Lugal-kitun: Aquitani: ancient Gaul


    RODAN:

    Danaus: Danaans: ancient Greece

    Rodan: Rhodians: ancient Rhodes

    Hamites


    CUSH:

    Cush: Kushitics: modern Ethiopia, East Africa

    Cosetani: ancient Spain

    Tane-mehuta: Melanesians: modern Fiji Islands

    Tupan: Tupi: modern Brazil


    MIZRAIM:

    Ame-no-minaka-nushi: Japanese: modern Japan

    Achaeus: Achaeans: ancient Greece

    Aka: Accetani: ancient Spain

    Achchitae: ancient Arabia

    Akan: modern West Africa

    Angle: Angli: modern England (United Kingdom)

    Mandaru: Mandarin: modern China

    Mende (Mande): modern Sierra Leone

    Mushri: Mossi (Moshe): modern West Africa

    Musri: ancient Cappadocia


    Tabaldak: Tabal: ancient Cappadocia

    Study of African History and Culture (2005, Willie F. Page, ed.) suggests that despite Eber’s importance in West Africa, the dominant name in that region was Ham’s yellow son Mizraim, who was already dead when African colonization began in the 22nd century. This conviction is based, not on isolated tribe names, but on three major ethnic groups located west of Nigeria mainly around the River Volta: the Akans, Mende (Mande) and Mossi.


    PHUT:

    Aeolus: Aeolians: ancient Asia Minor


    Dan (Den) Danes modern Denmark

    The seemingly superficial eponyms Dan and Angle given by Saxo Grammaticus for the Danes and Angles of Jutland prove valid because of the name Tangaloa given to Mizraim by the Austronesians. Phut was a full brother of Canaan, both being sons of Ham and his diluvian wife fair-skinned Uma.

    Iapetus: Hellenes: modern Greece

    Tawhiri: Malayo-Javanese: modern Malaysia, Indonesia

    Berbers: (Tawarek): modern North Africa


    CANAAN:

    Dorus: Dorians: ancient Greece

    Tu: Tagalas: modern Philippines, Taiwan, Malagasy

    Tue: Teutones: ancient Germany



    COEUS:

    Nine The Living Noahic World 216

    Coeus: Goin remnant: Gur-speaking West Africa


    Khoikhoi: modern Khoisan-speaking South Africa and Namibia

    The Khoisans are the fourth great division of black Africa after the Kushitics of the east, Congo-Nigerians of the west and Bantus originally from the north. They were the chief people of South Africa for millennia prior to the invasion of Bantus. The two main divisions of the Khoikhoi are the Nama and Orlams. The Nama distinguish themselves into the “Red Nation” of the Nama proper based on skin tint and the “Black Nation,” the Dama. The Nama were pushed into southern Namibia by the invasion of the Herero, fellow herders but speakers of Bantu.


    CREUS:

    Cree remnant: Saskatchewan-Manitoba-Ontario


    SABTAH:

    Ganed (Ganesha)

    Ganda modern Bantu Uganda

    Buganda

    Lugal-Kingineshdudu

    Bakongo modern Bantu Central African Republic

    Kongo modern Brazzaville Congo

    Kinshasha Congo

    Sabtah-Ganesha was the general patriarch of the Bantu linguistic stock. Genetically he was the son of two children of black Kali, Seba and Arvad. The three appear together both as Shiva, Parvati and Ganesha of India and as Osiris, Isis and Horus the Younger of Egypt. As Lugal-Kingineshdudu of Sumer shortly before the rise of Sargon-Nimrod, Sabtah became Horus the Younger, hero of the Egyptians, by enabling Sargon to conquer Sumer and free the Hamitic linguistic stock to colonize the Nile.


    Sabtah: Apataei: ancient Arabia

    Sapothreni: ancient Russia


    NIMROD:

    Asshur: Assyrians: ancient Assyria (Iraq)

    Helius: Heliadae: ancient Rhodes

    Huni: Huns: ancient Sinkiang (China)


    Ion: Ionians: ancient Ionia (Turkey)

    Although the Ionians were evidently the Yavanas, the tribe of Javan, Nimrod took their eponymous name as their conqueror Sargon. A possibility remains of a mixture of his people with the Yavanas. Nimrod appears as Olorun at the head of the Yoruba pantheon of Nigeria. We will find the Akkadian Empire of Sargon well represented among tribes of the Central African Republic.


    Reu: Araucans: modern Chile

    Sagara: Sagara remnant: Tanzania

    Sargon (Argos): Algonquians: modern North America


    ZUD:

    Susanowo: Elamite Susa: ancient Iran

    Shushuntara: Shoshi: modern Albania



    PHILIST:

    Philist: Philistines: ancient Crete, Palestine


    CAPHTOR:

    Nine The Living Noahic World 218

    Danu (Dôn): Dan: modern Mande Ivory Coast


    Dan: Ngere: modern Liberia

    In Mizraim’s particular region of West Africa, the Mande tribes include not only the Dan, suggesting Caphtor-Danu, but also the Mende, in keeping Mizraim’s Amorite name Mandaru. The Mandara Mountains are located in northern Cameroon just east of the Nigerian border. The name “Caphtor” is the Hebrew designation of Crete, an island claimed for the god Ptah-Sidon by the Egyptians. A script used by the Minoans of Crete has been traced to West Africa.


    SIDON:

    Gudea: Goths: modern Italy and Spain

    This casual resemblance of name is buttressed by the premise that Sidon was perhaps the fairest-skinned male of the earliest postdiluvian community. Based originally at Gotland Island, off the coast of Sweden, the Goths were East, rather than North, Teutons linguistically. It is possible that the Sidones of ancient German Poland were also East Teutons in a linguistic as well as geographic sense. I have no information on the language of Ptolemy’s Sidones.

    Karibu: Caribs remnant: Caribbean

    Kasyapa: Kassites: ancient Kurdistan

    The Kassites and Kingdom of Mitanni represent the core Kasyapa-Sidon and Daksha I-Mesannepadda-Arphaxad I at the source of the Inanna Succession.


    Myrddan: Mirdita (province): modern Albania

    Sidon: Sidones: ancient Poland west of the Vistula


    HETH:

    Hades: Has: modern Albania

    Heth: Chatti (Hittites): ancient Anatolia (Turkey)

    Chatti (Hessians): modern German Hesse

    Uruash: Orosh: modern Albania


    Hamites (section continued)


    AKURGAL:

    Akurgal: Koreans: modern Korea


    SIRIM:

    Sirim: Sauromatae: ancient Caucasus

    Serbs (South Slavs): modern Serbia


    ANIARRA:

    Aniarra: Himyari: ancient Arabia


    KAMPILYA:

    Kampilya: Khmer: modern Cambodia

    Yao: Tibeto-Burmans: modern Tibet, Burma, Vietnam


    BARIDISHSHU:

    Baridishshu: Paradas: ancient Parthia (eastern Iran)

    Shun: Chinese-Siamese: modern China, Lower Burma, Shan States, Thailand


    ARVAD:

    Arvad: Arabes: ancient Egypt

    Arvadites: ancient Arvad (Syrian coast)


    HAMATH:

    Hamath: Hamathites: ancient Hamath (Syria)

    Shemites


    UZ:

    Human: Comanches remnant: Texas

    Cumans: (Uzes) remnant: Ukraine

    Scythes: Scythians: ancient Russia


    HUL:

    Gelonus: Galindae: ancient Poland

    West Slavs: modern Poland, Czech Republic, Croatia

    Hul: Colchians: ancient Russia

    Khaldi: Chaldaei: ancient Turkey

    Chaldeans: ancient Kaldu (Iraq)

    Olmecs: ancient Mexico


    GETHER:

    Agathyrsus: Agathyrsians: ancient Baltic

    Akkadians: ancient Akkad (Iraq)

    Gedrosians: ancient Gedrosia (Pakistan)

    Ark (Arcas): Arcadians: ancient Greece

    Arya: ancient Ariana (Iran)


    MASH:

    Mashech: Massogetes: ancient Turkestan

    Math: Aramaeans: ancient Syria

    Mat: modern Albania

    Bathanaei: ancient Arabia


    ARPHAXAD I:

    Arphaxad: Hebrews: ancient Padan-Aram (Syria), modern Israel

    Hadoram: Aorsi: ancient Baltic

    Saturnus: Latins: modern Italy

    Zadrima (province): modern Albania

    Sin (Suen): Sicani: ancient Sicily

    Sinim (Chinese): modern China

    Although China derived its earliest emperors from the sons of Heth and its Han populace from the nominal leadership of Ham and Mizraim, the bulk of the population derived from Arphaxad, Durga (Sheba-I)’s son by Shem— the Jade Emperor.


    SHELAH:

    Ares: Aryans: Ariana Iran

    Babilos: Babylonians: ancient Iraq

    The Babylonians are generally regarded as the same people as the Akkadians even though the Babylonians of Hammurapi invaded Mesopotamia in the second millennium. The equation of these peoples is owing to two causes. The Babylonians adopted the entire tradition of the Akkadians as their own, and all Semitic branches are regarded as speaking dialects of a language more uniform throughout the world than are branches of the Indo-Europeans. Whatever the degree of distinction between Akkadians and Babylonians, the Akkadian stock originally derived from Shem’s son Gether; and Shelah, as Marduk, became their chief god. Shelah was subject to the same sort of Semitic-Sarmatian doublet as the immediate sons of Shem and vassals of Joktan of whom he was one— Diklah, the Prussian Tukla. The Baltic Lithuanians take their name from Shelah’s Ugaritic title “Lutpan” applied to Tr Il. Babilos or Bubilas is a Lithuanian god.


    Buri: Lygian Buri: ancient Poland

    Diklah (Tukla): Siculi: ancient Sicily


    Lugalbanda: Banda: modern Central African Republic

    This African nation’s tribes reveal a reinforcing connection with the Akkadian Empire of Sargon-Nimrod, lord of the Bantu, at the same time that Shelah was the father of Eber, lord of the Congo-Niger group. The Sumerian name breaks down into two parts, “Lugal” meaning “king” and “banda” meaning “younger.” Reinforcement comes from another tribe of the Central African Republic, the Mandja, corresponding to Sargon’s son Manishtushu-Serug in Waddell’s Indo-Aryan version Asa-Manja. The imperial source of the Akkadian rulers is Peleg represented by the Bantu Lega.


    Lutpan I: Lithuanians: modern Lithuanian

    Picus: Puka (province): modern Albania

    Shelah: Shala: modern Albania

    Shilluks: modern Nilotic Africa


    EBER:

    Athamas: Athapascans: modern Northwest Territory, Alberta, Saskatchewan

    Atys: Attie: modern Guinea Coast

    Bor: Fulani-Bornu: modern Nigeria (Bornu)

    Fulani-Borgu: modern Nigeria (Borgu)

    Eber Apiru: ancient Elam

    Celtiberians: ancient Spain

    Ebira: modern southern Nigeria

    Ebrie: modern Guinea Coast

    Ewe: modern Ewe West Africa

    Ibo: modern Equatorial Guinea, Nigeria

    Elam: Elamites: ancient Elam (Iran)

    Luma (province): modern Albania

    Faunus: Fan: modern Albania

    Gilgamesh: Giligammae: ancient North Africa

    Nabu (Nebo): Navajo: modern Athapascan Arizona

    Nuabu: Nubians: ancient Nubia (Sudan)

    Nuer: modern Nilotic Africa

    Samug: Samo: modern Gur-speaking West Africa

    Samoeds: modern Siberia (Lower River Ob)

    Tubal: Dibri: modern Albania

    Georgians: modern Caucasian Georgia (Tiblisi)

    Celtiberi: ancient Spain


    PELEG:

    Cernunnus : Gauls: modern France

    Gira: Gerraei: ancient Arabia

    Irra: Fuliiru: modern Kinshasa Congo

    Iraqw: modern Nilotic East Africa

    Iroquoians remnant: New York

    Karaduku: Kardouchi (Kurds): modern Iraq, Turkey, Iran

    Kingu: Kinga: modern East Africa

    Latinus: Latini: modern Italy

    Lydus (Lud) Lusitani ancient Portugal

    Luti: Buri: ancient Germanic Poland

    Lydians: ancient Lydia (Turkey)

    Phrixus: Phrygians (Trojans): ancient Phrygia (Turkey)

    Phrygundiones: ancient Germanic Poland

    Peleg: Lega: modern Kinshasa Congo

    Puluga: Andamese: modern Andaman Islands

    Tasa (Iltasadum): Contestani: ancient Spain


    JOKTAN:

    Aram: Aramaeans: ancient Syria

    Bes/Besh: Bassetani: ancient Spain

    Bessi: ancient Thrace

    Biessi: ancient Sarmatia

    Car: Carians: ancient Caria (Turkey)

    Carpetani: ancient Spain

    Joktan: Choctaw remnant: Muskhogean Mississippi

    Khitan: Arabs: modern Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco

    Khitans: ancient Inner Mongolia

    Kubera: Hobaritae: ancient Arabia

    Mael (Mil): Mili Kurds: modern Iraq, Turkey

    Meshech: Mushki: ancient Anatolia (Turkey)

    Muskogee remnant: Muskhogean Alabama

    Vascones (Basques): modern Spain


    SERUG:

    Asa-Manja: Mandja: modern Central African Republic

    Serug: Circassians (Cherkasses): modern Circassia (Caucasus)

    Cherokee remnant: Tennessee, Oklahoma


    NAHOR:

    Karamba: Kamba: modern Kenya

    Kurumba: modern Gur-speaking West Africa

    Nahor: Nahuatl (Aztecs): modern Mexico


    ALMODAD:

    Almodad: Alumeotae: ancient Arabia

    Alani: ancient Russia

    Orpheus: Croats (Hrvati): modern Croatia


    SHELEPH:

    Asklepius: East Slavs (Russians, Ukrainians): modern Russia, Ukraine

    Sheleph: Serbs (South Slavs): modern Serbia


    HAZARMAVETH:


    Hazarmaveth: Chazars: ancient Russia

    Hadramauti: modern Hadramaut

    Idrae: ancient Sarmatia

    Mot: Moesians: ancient Moesia (Bulgaria)


    JERAH:


    Athtar/Assaracus: Asturians: ancient Spain

    Bastarnae: ancient Carpathians (Bastarnian Mountains)

    Jerah: Jazyges: ancient Dacia (Iasi, Romania)

    Hungary

    The Asturians of northern Spain were known to the Romans as a formidable warlike people. They complement Jerah’s lord, Joktan, whose chief Spanish tribe was the Carpetani. That form of Joktan’s name explains the alternative name “Carpathians” for the Ptolemy’s “Bastarnian Mountains.”


    OBAL:

    Apollo: Poles (West Slavs): modern Poland

    Hobal: Ophlones: ancient Russia

    Utu: Utes remnant:Utah

    Shamash: Shoshoneans: modern Utah, Texas


    UZAL:

    Uzal: Azali: ancient Pannonia (Hungary)

    Italoi (Ausonians): modern Italy

    Osi: ancient Pannonian Germany

    Osyli: ancient Russia

    In Germania, Tacitus reports that the Osi proved themselves not to be Germans by speaking the Pannonian language. By offering as Pannonian a tribe with a name that resembles the Sarmatian Osyli, the report reinforces the identification of Pannonia with Uzal via the Azali. Thus three sources of information— Ptolemy’s Sarmatia, the same geographer’s Pannonia and Tacitus’ report— converge on the impression that Uzal-Inanna, “Ister,” is at the root of these traditions.

    [Ister is another name of the Danube river ]


    ABIMAEL:


    Abimael: Tanaitae: ancient Russia

    Abimael, “My Father Is Mael,” is Joktan’s son Enmerkar. The Tanaitae of the River Don-Tanais took the name of Abimael’s father Khitan and filled out the array of Joktanite names in Ptolemy’s Sarmatia.


    More details in John’s “KINGSHIP AT ITS SOURCE”.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2021
  3. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    PT-2 ANOTHER simpler outline of IDENTITIES to use is this one: [See uploaded file]
    What you may experiment with is take a "set" (EX: NOAH = APSU) etc., and do a "Construct."
    For example:

    Noah. The Ukko Construct:

    [Dagan- Odagon- Siton- An- Ukko- Ukush- Ukhu- Akshak- Akshvaku- Ikshvaku]

    Jacob Bryant suggested in the 1770s that Noah should be identified with the Philistine fish god Dagan. He was influenced by the name Odakon appearing in the Babylonian kinglist of Berosus. Later Dagan was identified as a god of Ugarit and father of Aliyan Bal, whose identity with Shem confirms Bryant’s theory of Dagan. A variant name of Dagan, Siton, matches the Sitones or Finns, a people of the Finno-Ugrian, western branch of the Ural-Altaics. That stock worshiped God as An, using the same name for the heaven god as the Sumerians, themselves a branch of the Ural-Altaics. The Finnish sky god is named Ukko, suggestive of the Sumerian ruler Ukush, father of Lugalzagesi, one of Shem’s most important identities in determining his history.

    The name Ukko reappears as Waddell’s Ukhu City, taken from a Sumerian King List fragment. Because that fragment contains some of the same names as rulers of Akshak, the name “Ukhu” might be viewed as a mistaken reading for Akshak. The close match between Ukhu and Ukko, however, lends weight to Waddell’s view that “Ukhu City” was separate from Sumerian Akshak. Waddell identifies as founder of Ukhu City the first ruler of the Indo-Aryan kinglist named Ikshvaku in both branches of the solar line. If Ikshvaku is read with a back vowel, Akshvaku readily yields the name Akshak. Thus Akshak appears to replicate Ukhu City according to a Sumerian attempt to reproduce the Indo-Aryan name of its first ruler, a version of Noah.

    ORIGIN OF THE NATIONS p.96.
    For example, he identifies Noah with the god Dagon on the basis of thelatter’s resemblance to Odakon of the Berosus king list. Jacob Bryant, A New System or an Analysis of Ancient Mythology, 3rd ed. (London: J. Walker, 1807), IV, 140.
     

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  4. Thomas

    Thomas Moderator Moderator

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    Hi Ross — Maybe you'd like to say something about yourself on the Intros board?

    Welcome, btw!

    Is this specifically Biblical mythology? I always assumed Greek Myths were psychodynamic tales?

    Depends which Biblicists. Catholic scholarship generally regard Genesis 1-11 (prior to Abram) as mythological.

    I think recent scholarship also suggests that pre-Babylonian Hebrew history is largely mythological also ... ?

    Again, I suppose we should draw a line between general and scholarly. As a Catholic, I view early Hebrew polytheism being incorporated by angelicism into a monotheistic religion.

    I'm also aware that the God of Abraham might well be seen differently than the God of Moses, for example ... but then my view of Hebrew history is a working towards monotheism, rather than a revelatory one-moment-in-time done deal.

    Ancient Biblical names of God, for example the Ancient of Days in the Book of Daniel, or El Shaddai, a Divine Name possibly of Ugaritic/Canaanite origin, could be argued to be of pagan origin ... personally, I like El Shaddai.
     
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  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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  6. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    Catholic scholarship generally regard Genesis 1-11 (prior to Abram) as mythological.

    Id we take Jesus Christ as a REAL being, then we have to take His word for it. If we say Abraham and pre-Abrahamic history is fictional (a flawed definition of mythology), then we make Jesus a LIAR as to the historicity of Abraham, Moses, noah, and Adam: he said "Abraham saw my "day" and was glad." he said, "As it was in the days of NOAH..." St Paul typed Jesus as the Second Adam. If they are all fictional, then Rome has a big problem being or claiming any reality as a religion. Truth based on fiction?? We take Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Shem (Melchezidic) as real beings - our Patriarchs. Without which we have no legitimacy. So, with Christ's authority by way of the New testament testimony, if he said Adam, and Noah were real, then ALL of the Genesis 10 patriarchs were real, everyone between NOAH and Abraham. This make all the mythological people "gods" actually not fictions but dialectical different names for the same Genesis 10 figures. UtuNapishtum-Noah, etc.
     
  7. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    Greek Myths were psychodynamic tales?

    Greek mythjology is only hellenistic version of Hebrew Genesis 10 patriarchs and their version of proto-history. They remember the Flood and Noah though the anachronism of Deucalion, a later figure who experienced I think? the Ogyges Flood in the Mediterranean Sea. In otherwords, they saw Deucalion "LIKE" Noah.
     
  8. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    I think recent scholarship also suggests that pre-Babylonian Hebrew history is largely mythological also ... ?

    Well, modern scholarship LACKS evidence, so they makes claims from silence. They took TROY to be "mythical" until they had to eat their mistake.
     
  9. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    Catholic scholarship generally regard Genesis 1-11 (prior to Abram) as mythological.

    Catholic scholarship has been secularized and is in a state of apostasy. Without taking the Biblical testimony as true, what truth of Christ do they have left? If catholics are going to say Noah is a fake, Abrahamn is a fiction, and Moses was an invention never in Egypt, they just as well say Christ is an invention of the Roman "SUN" worshiping priest, pagan synergists. How far do we take fictionalizing our religion until it means nothing? if Abraham is a fiction then is GOD a fiction too?
     
  10. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    Well, maybe is some way, but it's the same God understood differently by he individual. General Patton saw God as a WAR GOD. Mother teresa saw Him as a CHARITY GOD of Love. Different names of God represent different aspects of the ONE God. Before the Tower of babel, there was monotheism through Noah. It was Ham, Canaan, Sidon, and Shelah who built Babel and misunderstood God. Then, the misunderstanding of theosis" became a perverted apotheosis of humans- deification - then polytheism. Noah, as a representative of the one God became in the minds of degenerate descendants "a god."
     
  11. Arif Ghamiq

    Arif Ghamiq Active Member

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    Could Dagon really be inspired by, or an interpretation or a Deification of Prophet Nuh/Noah (as) ??
     
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  12. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    NOTE: PS. JOSEPH CAMPBELL is an intelligent IDIOT! He is so shallow, superficial and pathetic as a comparative mythologist compared to Dr. John Pilkey. Mythology?: What is it? Here is what we believe and have proved mythology to be: History later mystagoged by later ignorant descendants. The experiences of those who went through their intrigues are handed down orally; then these intrigues were told to their children; the children tell their children; after much time, the stories are enhanced, glossed, forgotten information replaced with supplemental materials and then amplified, poetically re-told with animals and other things replacing real people, then later written down in sacred books; then re-translated into changing dialects or other languages.

    Then it becomes what we see as mythology. Later modern man decides to define mythology, not as someone's story or oral traditions of real events, but fictions- because they cannot prove its historicity. Mythology is the crystalized metaphors of real prehistoric events. Nowhere in the Sumerian myths and hymns do the Sumerians say their "stories" are fake, fictional inventions. Actually, they CLAIM Gilgamesh was real, even though they knew the stories were or had been hyperbolic. They paralleled him with Utunapishtum, who they DID NOT SAY WAS fictional. We have such glosses or additions in our histories too: We were taught in High School 50 years ago that president G. Washington chopped down a cherry tree.

    That is now proved not true, itsb a fiction. But this does not make President George Washington a fiction. Much about Gilgamesh is just Bull Shit, I agree. But strip away the obvious BULL and we still have a REAL character - His father is proved to be a real King mentioned in Sumerian texts, king lists and monumental inscriptions. How can his father be real historically and not his son? Gilgamesh is mentioned as a King in the King Lists, too!

    So, I would rather assume ALL mythological characters were real humans UNTIL otherwise proved to be fictions. This approach allows a Mythographer-historian to synthesize a proto-history from the national traditions of the world. Whatever is later proved to be UN-real can be amended. If one does not take this approach then nothing can be made of myth but "a global ancient phenomenon of everyone telling their children LIES with not the slightist indication that is false.

    At least today, after a child is of a certain age, we tell them Sanat Clause is a fake fiction- Oh, he's only a "type" of Jesus, a celebration of His birthday and gift giving of Graces. But we don't tell them it is actually NIMROD's birthday. So give mythology an historical break- myths are informations of reality handed down orally over 1000's of years- so, stop being stupid and educate yourselves and learn to TRANSLATE mythology BACK to what it IS TRYING TO SAY- and NOT what you want it to say- like, according to idiots like Joseph Campbell.
     
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  13. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    Yes:
    Dagan- Odagon- Siton- An- Ukko- Ukush- Ukhu- Akshak- Akshvaku- Ikshvaku]

    Jacob Bryant suggested in the 1770s that Noah should be identified with the Philistine fish god Dagan. He was influenced by the name Odakon appearing in the Babylonian kinglist of Berosus. Later Dagan was identified as a god of Ugarit and father of Aliyan Bal, whose identity with Shem confirms Bryant’s theory of Dagan. A variant name of Dagan, Siton, matches the Sitones or Finns, a people of the Finno-Ugrian, western branch of the Ural-Altaics. That stock worshiped God as An, using the same name for the heaven god as the Sumerians, themselves a branch of the Ural-Altaics.

    The Finnish sky god is named Ukko, suggestive of the Sumerian ruler Ukush, father of Lugalzagesi, one of Shem’s most important identities in determining his history.

    The name Ukko reappears as Waddell’s Ukhu City, taken from a Sumerian King List fragment. Because that fragment contains some of the same names as rulers of Akshak, the name “Ukhu” might be viewed as a mistaken reading for Akshak. The close match between Ukhu and Ukko, however, lends weight to Waddell’s view that “Ukhu City” was separate from Sumerian Akshak. Waddell identifies as founder of Ukhu City the first ruler of the Indo-Aryan kinglist named Ikshvaku in both branches of the solar line.

    If Ikshvaku is read with a back vowel, Akshvaku readily yields the name Akshak. Thus Akshak appears to replicate Ukhu City according to a Sumerian attempt to reproduce the Indo-Aryan name of its first ruler, a version of Noah.
    For example, he identifies Noah with the god Dagon on the basis of thelatter’s resemblance to Odakon of the Berosus king list. Jacob Bryant, A New System or an Analysis of Ancient Mythology, 3rd ed. (London: J. Walker, 1807), IV, 140.

    Dedan- Amorite Didanu- Marut Indra]


    An equation between Noah and the East Indian storm god Indra is based on several lines of reasoning. In the revolution of Genesis 9:26 Noah blesses the “Yahweh Elohim of Shem,” combining the names of Shem’s ancestral God Yahweh with Ham’s ancestral God Elohim. Psalm 18 confirms the symbolic association between the divine name Yahweh and storm imagery. As priest of Yahweh, Shem appears as a storm god in many cultures. The name Indra, however, attaches to Noah rather than Shem because Shem appears separately in the Indian pantheon as Brahma, creator of the Indo-European stock.

    He also figures as the Indian sky god Dyaus equivalent to Hellenic Zeus. By blessing the “Yahweh Elohim of Shem,” Noah transferred to the storm ethos to himself just as the sky ethos was later transferred to Shem-Melchizedek as priest of El Elyon. In confirmation of these identities, Indian artists portray Indra as a potbellied figure as though to acknowledge Noah’s greater age than other male Noahic elite.

    The second part of this construct involves the Amorite race and Cushite clan. Waddell, reasoning from the presence of Indo-Aryan rulers in Phoenicia and Mitanni, identifies the Amorites with the dashing “Maruts” who follow Indra. The name relevant to Noah in the Amorite kinglist is Didanu, a cognate to Dedan, one of the vassals of Cush in Genesis 10:7. Separate constructs identify the first Cushite vassal Seba with the Amorite ruler Adamu and the second Havilah-Ham, with Hanu.

    Further study reveals that entire tetrad of antediluvian males is embedded in the Cushite clan, reinforcing the equations among Noah, Dedan and Didanu. The clan consists of the four antediluvian males, Noah’s son Riphath-Seba, his grandson Sabtah-Ganesha and the most pivotal of all the elite, Peleg as Sabtecah. The clan is subordinated to Cush as the priest of Enlil, the proper Semitic God name Elohim, whose language was spoken from the earliest colonizing days in Amorite Martu. Noah’s blessing of the “Yahweh Elohim” of Shem required his membership in this Semitic core group as well as his identity as a “storm god” in Yahweh’s service.

    While readers of Genesis 19 have reason to abominate the Amorites, they must realize that the Amorites of Martu are the earliest Semitic nation on record. Traditional veneration of the Semitic linguistic stock— based on the Hebrew language of the Old Testament— must contend with the antiquity of the Amorites and with Noah’s identity as their ruler Didanu.
     
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  14. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin Moderator

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    Hi Ross

    welcome to the Interfaith Dialogue Forums! Glad you found us.

    It would be great if you introduced yourself briefly in the introductions section of the forum.

    Looking forward to interesting discussions!
     
  15. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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  16. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin Moderator

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    I watched a couple of movies set in this country. They have massive Vibranium deposits ;) Marvelous place.

    Having worked in the film industry, what is your opinion on modern myth making, hollywood style? Are they legitimate retellings of timeless human myths?
     
  17. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    FREE DOWNLOAD PDF of [1/2 of] Volume-1 "ORIGIN OF THE NATIONS" by Dr. John D. Pilkey.the first best research on mythography represented by this thread.
    I am limited to 1mb files, so IF you want the whole volume, you must contact me with a working email.
     

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  18. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin Moderator

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    I'd like to ask you to review our code of conduct, the section on promoting one's own books etc.

    We're happy to have you here, but ask you to respect this place.

    A link to our code of conduct, for your convenience:

    https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/7047/
     
  19. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    Well, I have not found one yet that does a pure delivery. All move scripts are written for 'consumption", and unless you watch documentaries, all you are going to get are writers renditions and variations on the themes. In film, to have a GOOD film, you have to have at least ONE of the following THREE-E's: Entertaining, Enlightening, or Educational. The former resides in movies, while the last two usually can be found more so in documentaries. The "E" of Enlightening can apply to either of the others or both. So, NO, you may be enlightened by a movie with mythology in it, but not really purely informed like a documentary, or just reading a book on the particular subject. Hope I answered the question. Oh, the old Ray Harryhausen films, ''Jason and the Argonauts,'' is as close to following the myth as can be. But there are lost of bending the truths in it - it's chopped way down and is an entertaining synopsis, written for entertainment and armchair adventurerest.
     
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  20. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    Boy, if I could get a hold of some of that, I would dissolve a lot of comical anthropological horse-crap...
     
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