EUHEMRISM- Mythology as Symbolically Glossed History

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by Ross S Marshall, May 3, 2021.

  1. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    Ojh, ooop[s. I am so sorry. Im practically giving them away just to advance the study.. I will edit out all the references... Today. Sorry
     
  2. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    OKAY, I went through and found and removed references.. Please if you see one I missed please quot and post so I can remove it. thanks so much- I'm getting old and stupid... :eek:) ROSS
     
  3. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin Moderator

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    Thank you.

    Speaking of Jason, what are the historical glosses you see? It is a wonderful story, all the challenges of the quest, the love story between Medea and Jason, sci-fi like elements such as Thalos... What do you make of it? And what was the golden fleece really?
     
  4. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    Oh, I am sorry. I might not have been specific. What I meant was the "movie" Jason and Argonauts" by MGM?. The original story, and there were more than just one rendition, is fine. I meant the movie took some license. As to the Golden Fleece, I'll have to dig into the professor's works and see what he said. I don't know what it was, but Ill find out how he interpreted it.
     
  5. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin Moderator

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    All good, I never watched the movie, but have been hearing good things about it. One of these days...

    Regarding the Golden Fleece - I've read a few reports by a person from the Netherlands who seems to be researching ancient Hittite topics, and who claims to have found correspondences between the Fleece and some Hittite ceremonial garb. I can dig up the reference if it interests you.
     
  6. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    JASON'S GOLDEN FLEECE: A sacred garment of symbolic super power and divine kingship. It was in the possession of Aeetes, the Noah of genesis 10.
    I threw this together from a quick scan of my files:

    Notes on Sacred Garments and GOLDEN GIRDLE OF (REV.1:13)

    As to Jason’s quest for the Golden Fleece, one might ask what this fleece was and why he would want it so badly.From the following evidence it could be a magical vesture empowering the owner with inevitability and Kingship.

    Egyptian symbolism reveals another parallel between Amen-Ra and the Biblical “King of Kings” through the Egyptian Water god, Nu or Nin and the Christ of Revelation 1:13. The Divine Spirit as Amen-Ra, is like the Holy Spirit of the Christian New Testament through the symbolism of “The Stone.” Even so, Amen-Ra as the Celestial Water god Nu, is like Christ, through the symbolism of the Golden Girdle of Revelation 1:13. Both the Bible and the Egyptian Book of the Dead use this sacred garment symbol of the Girdle: “...the Son of Man is girder across His breast with a Golden Girdle.” (Rev. 1:13) The Scribe Anu, in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, mentions this “... girdle of the garments of the God Nu, which giveth light and shineth and belongeth to his breast...” (128)

    The Egyptians believed this girdle to be an object of great magical power and an object out of which flowed a guiding light that would lighten the realm of heaven and point out the way of the true path through the domain of darkness. They believed that to identify one's self with this magical belt, was to be identified with that light and thus be safe in such travels through the Nether World.(129) This magical girdle was a very important and sacred motif to the Egyptians, for they claimed it had some mystical power and “light-force” of divine authority, which gave kingship and ruling power to the possessor over all opposition. It was an object in which authority was concentrated; a portal or vehicular object from which all divine despotism flowed.(130) This power of the sacred object over all opposition may have been of great value, even to those of unjust persuasion, for we see just such a figure in the person of the Biblical Nimrod, the Orion of Greek Myth.(131)

    The Near Eastern Enuma-Elis records the story of Ea/Enki conjuring up a sleep spell against the god Apsu and his vizier Mummu, where Ea is shown stealing Apsu's sacred garments. The Hindu Puranic myths record this same legend in the person of Indra. With this comparative study, Indra and Apsu seem to be acknowledged as the same entity. Both were, after all, gods of the Water.

    Atharva Veda (c. 1000 BCE)Verse 8.8.6. speaks of Indra’s magical net, something highly prized by opponents: “Vast indeed is the tactical net of great Indra, mighty of action and tempestuous of great speed. By that net, O Indra, pounce upon all the enemies so that none of the enemies may escape the arrest and punishment.”

    Mummu was present during the attack upon Apsu by the rebellious Enki(Ea), who put both parties under a magical sleep spell and, consequentially, stole Apsu’s sacred garments and relics of political authority. There is a story in the Book of Jasher (See below), where Ham, Canaan and Nimrod alternately obtain Adam’s Sacred garments from Noah, making them, alternately, the New Adamic figures and rulers of the World. This hereditary succession, and sometimes thievery, ended at the destruction of the Tower of Babel. --

    In the Enuma-Elis, the God Ea “The Most Able and All Knowing” composes a foul plan against the God Apsu. Drawing up a map of the Universe and composing a magical plot, Ea plans against Apsu and the Waters. The significance of the expression “Waters”(199), in the Biblical context, is it symbolizes the dominant faction of the flood survivors, challenged by the rebel faction under Ea and Enlil or Canaan and Ham. It is apparent that it is talking about the scene at the Tower of Babel. Now, Shem was a loyalist to Noah and received a blessing from Noah, but Japheth only shared this blessing. Ham or Canaan was cursed! Therefore, the family of gods, which included Ea, composing the sleep-spell against Apsu and “the Waters,” must be Hamitic and Canaanite, the Sidonians of Greek Mythology. Ea pours forth his sleep-spell upon a map and transmits a deep sleep to Apsu and Mummu, causing them to slumber. While sleeping, Ea removes their garments and Apsu's Crown. Ea puts the crown on his own head, claiming Apsu's title of ruler over the whole world. His desire of stealing the ultimate Imperial Solar Ruler ship is fulfilled! Ea then supposedly “kills” [dethrones] Apsu and lays the bound-up Mummu cross-ways over Apsu. This is a symbolic killing though, for in the parallel Indian myth Indra is alive and well and lives to rescue Vishnu(?). This symbolic killing is similar to the Greek mythical dethronement of Ouranus or Cronus. Yet, in Indian and Babylonian myth, it is Noah that is dethroned, by Sidon, son of Ham and Canaan.

    THE IDENTITY OF AEETES: The seventh member of the Ennead, Osiris’ sister wife Isis is Seba’s full sister and lover Arvad-Parvati, daughter of Noah and Kali. The magician Isis identifies with the arch-magician Medea, Absyrtus’ sister among the Colchians in the Hellenic tradition of the Argonautica. Isis’ magic raises Osiris from the dead just as Medea’s magic wins the Golden Fleece for Jason. Because the Argonautica refers to Medea as Absyrtus’ sister, the genetic relationship between Osiris and Isis is confirmed and Noah-Geb identifies with their father Aeëtes king of Colchis. The family of Aeëtes, Absyrtus and Medea in their Colchian locale is another of those traditions of the second type which should be taken literally in respect to location. [Kingship At Its Source, p. 35]

    If King Aeetes of Colchis is the Biblical Noah, the Indra of the Puranics, and the Apsu of the Marduk Epic, as Dr John Pilkey establishes, then Noah must have had a man garbed in and in possession of a sacred lineage of royal vesture consisting of powerfully magical gridles, animal skin cloaks and other items representing power and Kingship. Adding up the stories we can see a good reason for Jason’s quest of the Golden Fleece.

    24 And the garments of skin which God made for Adam and his wife, when they went out of the garden, were given to Cush.
    25 For after the death of Adam and his wife, the garments were given to Enoch, the son of Jared, and when Enoch was taken up to God, he gave them to Methuselah, his son.
    26 And at the death of Methuselah, Noah took them and brought them to the ark, and they were with him until he went out of the ark.
    27 And in their going out, Ham stole those garments from Noah his father, and he took them and hid them from his brothers.
    28 And when Ham begat his first born Cush, he gave him the garments in secret, and they were with Cush many days.
    29 And Cush also concealed them from his sons and brothers, and when Cush had begotten Nimrod, he gave him those garments through his love for him, and Nimrod grew up, and when he was twenty years old he put on those garments.
    30 And Nimrod became strong when he put on the garments,… [Jasher 7:24-30]


    [Ref. Noah’s Ark and the Genesis 10 Patriarch, pp.89, 137, 151, 254]
     
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  7. Thomas

    Thomas Moderator Moderator

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    Quite a hard furrow to plough, I would have thought; all credit to you.

    There is another argument –
    According to "Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament" (Princeton, 1969), Genesis is more widely and most significantly paralleled in ancient texts of the region than any other book in the Hebrew canon. So I wonder what allowance you make for Genesis incorporating text traditions from Sumerian, Akkadian and other literary traditions?
     
  8. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    If I read you right; "what allowance you make for Genesis incorporating text traditions from Sumerian, Akkadian and other literary traditions", I would have to say, Any and All texts, as Genesis refers back to all these times, and that all these references derive and speak of the Genesis events.
     
  9. Ross S Marshall

    Ross S Marshall Member

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    correspondences between the Fleece and some Hittite ....
    I found this:
    Professor Volkart Haas. He provide indications almost forty years ago that the Myth of the Golden Fleece was influenced by Hittite myths and their cult attributes. So scholars are referring to his article(s) from that time period. However, in the ensuing forty years the knowledge about Hittite religion has grown and the meaning of the term kursa (often described as a sacral bag made of fleeces) has become more clear. Indeed, Volkert Haas has often put forward in his books that an influence of Hittite myths and attributes, like the
    “kursa on the eya tree” is indeed possible in the myth of the Golden Fleece.
    Okay, but a fast read tells me he never wanted to say Hittite is the original, but only similarities.
    So, my question is whether Telipinu is the same as Jason- who is Nimrod? More digging! No. Telepinu is likely Peleg according to our identities.
    SOURCE: https://www.academia.edu/5788789/Influences_of_Hittite_myths_in_the_Myth_of_the_Golden_Fleece
     
  10. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin Moderator

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    Right, the Hittite "Kursa" was what I had in mind. You beat me to it! :)
     

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