Authority of the ancients vs authority of progress

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Cino, Jul 29, 2021.

  1. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Are you an Israeli? Talking about Zion.
     
  2. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Oh, is this a new translation? Which improvements to you see wrt older efforts?
     
  3. parta

    parta New Member

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    no. I knew a jewish man once but he died.
    I think this is more the first vara of Yima from vendidad f2.
     
  4. parta

    parta New Member

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    if you trust the marketing its the best ever. certainly has new details.
     
  5. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    So does this ancient text do something for you due to its age, or due to the modern scholarly translation?
     
  6. parta

    parta New Member

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    if it actually says we are supposed to walk around Zion I guess any clue to where that is might be helpful.
     
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Still a bit cryptic, lol
    Go on -- no worries -- we won't let you start a flame war because we are about interfaith more than world politics, but so far you are in a safe place to say what you want to say ...

    People are listening and interested
     
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  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    @parta
    Are you talking about Zoroastrian concepts?
     
  9. parta

    parta New Member

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    I would like to take the bible literally. I do not know if that's actually safe here.
    to that end its helpful if the words of the bible are correct to the author.

    re Zoroaster... well there is his avatar... so I used yimkard because I would have no problem calling Zion that to avoid any war.
     
  10. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Hmmm... Zion... another Matrix thread? @Geo I think this one's for you?
     
  11. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I'm following you over here from @Ross S Marshall thread 'EUHEMRISM- Mythology as Symbolically Glossed History'
    https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/19718/page-4#post-351075

     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  12. parta

    parta New Member

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  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    When I studied the bible I had two parallel bibles, one with 4 translations, the other with 3 and comments, a couple concordances, the Message and the Llamsa.

    In my Sunday school classroom instead of a dozen KJVs or NASs I had over a dozen versions and a manga...so when I said turn to John 3:14 and read one would offer to read out loud and then the kids would discuss what their book said...or how it made them think differently about the scripture. It was interesting watching the gears turn, a.couple students would be looking thru the revealing word or the mbd, others looking online to see if they could find something to add to the discussion.

    It was great to watch them research themselves and get involved in debate. My goal was not to tell them what to think...or tell them what is right interpretation...(as that is what I rejected in Sunday school)..but to get them thinking and researching and working out their beliefs and understandings of the passages. Hopefully develop a passion for that.
     
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  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    The psalm is like an abstract painting, one can give any meaning to it. :)
     
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  15. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Why? Scripture itself points out that the literal is insufficient.

    But to do so, you'd have to do it in the original Hebrew, as a translation is always that, and many words and concepts simply do not translate.

    I've heard people speak of modern languages, saying that certain phrases do not translate and cannot even be easily explained.

    Then you'd have to determine how much Hebrew has evolved over the millennia since the texts were written, then you'd have to immerse yourself in all the literature of the time (as much as there is, both in Hebrew and others, like Ugaritic, to get a sense of what is being said), all the while knowing you're a 'modern' and literally thousands of year away from seeing the world as the author saw it.

    In all all, a mammoth task.

    I once spoke to a tutor about learning Latin and/or Greek to read Christian texts in the original. Aquinas is really helpful, apparently, his writing is in a simple, 'schoolbook Latin' because he wanted it to be accessible.

    He was working with a Greek text of St Maximus. "I spent 90 minutes over one word. What did he mean?" You have to cross-reference with every other time he uses that word, to get a hold on it and his thinking, you have to do the same with its compound variables, and even then, you're not sure ... you can make an informed guess, but even seasoned scholars who can (I've listened to them) converse in Koine Greek, sometimes disagree on particular translations.

    A literal reading of a text (religious or otherwise) validates most terrorist actions (ditto). I'd tread cautiously.

    Additional:

    I trawl through Japanese historical websites. I have two programs to run translations for me. These are literal in the sense they are machine translations, and they're always uncertain. Sometimes the literal translation gets it wrong. Both programs always get familial relations wrong, confusing who is related to whom and how...
     
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  16. parta

    parta New Member

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    "Walk about Zion and go around her;
    Count her towers;
    Consider her ramparts;
    Go through her palaces,
    That you may tell it to the next generation."

    probably the authors were going for simple and direct.
    a little less diversity in our understanding of GOD.
     
  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    But those who do not accept the above scripture as authority of ownership obviously disagree. From there on it's political? I'm not getting involved, believe me, lol
     
  18. parta

    parta New Member

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    "For, lo, the kings assembled themselves,
    They passed by together.
    They saw it, then they were amazed;
    They were terrified, they fled in alarm.
    Panic seized them there,
    Anguish, as of a woman in childbirth.
    With the east wind
    You break the ships of Tarshish."

    politicians better watch themselves apparently...

    Maybe there is even a Malthusianism in another spot.

    again... on a little less diversity
    51 O ye messengers! Eat of the good things, and do right. Lo! I am Aware of what ye do.
    52 And lo! this your religion is one religion and I am your Lord, so keep your duty unto Me.
    53 But they have broken their religion among them into sects, each group rejoicing in its tenets.
    54 So leave them in their error till a time appointed.
     
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  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Ok. Still very cryptic, lol ...
     
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  20. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Why do the literal readers never focus on the beatitudes?
     
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