Any anti vax/mask/virus hoaxers here?

Discussion in 'Health' started by wil, Aug 15, 2021.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    It is weird...if you are and were among my irl friends and acquaintances I would avoid you like the... err...plague.

    But here, I hope we can calmly listen to your reasoning to better understand the train of thought.

    Touchy subject (potentially more than our typical religious/science discussions) a test to see if we can remain respectful!
     
  2. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    My body, my choice.

    Seems to work for the pro-abortion folks, why not everybody else?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
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  3. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    And hoaxes, huh? Not just a little misleading, is it?

    Have you quit beating your wife?
     
  4. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Covid in Israel

    Israel is showing that the Phizer vaccine seems to wear off within months, especially with older people.

    It doesn’t mean the vaccine doesn’t work at all, but it’s not as effective as originally was thought – especially against the Delta variant.

    I’m not anti-vaxx or conspiracy theorist. I have had two Phizer jabs, less to protect myself than to help bring the country out of lockdown and try get back to normal – but that’s it. I will not be trying any new experimental vaccines, as new covid variants appear.

    It is not wrong or callous to ask questions about covid. It's nasty, but the original purpose was to prevent overload upon health services, and in the meantime other very serious medical cases have been unable to get treatment, and the travel industry has effectively been extinguished imo

    How will the pandemic end?

    "After months of encouraging trendlines, July’s dramatic spike in global COVID-19 infections has dimmed the proverbial light at the end of the pandemic tunnel.

    In May, coronavirus cases were declining across the U.S., parts of Europe, and the Middle Eastas vaccination rates rose, spurring an easing of social and travel restrictions and a wave of business reopenings. But in the U.S., at least, any celebration was short-lived. By July, vaccination rates flatlined and highly transmissible coronavirus variants swept the nation, forcing health officials to reimpose masking recommendations and call for increased inoculations.

    The World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a pandemic on March 11, 2020. After 17 grueling and chaotic months, weary people are wondering: When will the pandemic finally end?

    “Even among the scientific community, you would get really different answers,” says Rachael Piltch-Loeb, a researcher and fellow with the Emergency Preparedness Research, Evaluation & Practice Program at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. “There is no one definition of what the end of a pandemic means.”

    A pandemic is by definition a global crisis. Lifting some U.S. public health measures and interventions “gave people a sense that the panic was waning,” Piltch-Loeb says. That euphoria blinded many to the worldwide reality, which remains bleak.

    “Until this [virus] is controlled or more limited globally, it’s not going away,” Piltch-Loeb says. That means declaring the pandemic’s “end” may be a distant goal, requiring different conditions depending on who’s asked.

    Where do diseases go?

    When the worldwide spread of a disease is brought under control in a localized area, it’s no longer a pandemic but an epidemic, according to the WHO. If COVID-19 persists globally at what the WHO judges to be “expected or normal levels,” the organization will then re-designate the disease “endemic.”

    … WHO Director Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus last week reinstated a goal of vaccinating at least 10 percent of every nation’s population by September, with the loftier goal of reaching 40 percent global inoculation by year’s end and 70 percent by mid-2022.

    To date, though, just 28 percent of the world’s population has received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. And vaccine distribution remains wildly lopsided. The European Union has nearly three-fourths of its eligible population at least partially inoculated; the U.S. has vaccinated 68 percent of people 12 and older.

    But other nations that have lost many people to COVID-19—including Indonesia, India, and many of the countries in Africa—are working at a much slower pace. That’s in part because Covax, the United-Nations-backed program to vaccinate the world, has struggled to acquire and deliver vaccines for the world’s poorest countries. This week, the WHO issued a plea for wealthy countries to donate vaccine doses to poorer nations before offering booster shots to their own populations …
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
  6. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    It is a virus. The common cold is a virus. Influenza is a virus. We have not eradicated those two, it is unreasonable to think we can eradicate Covid-19. The best we can hope, like the cold and flu, is to limit the spread and moderate the symptoms, particularly among the vulnerable populations (elderly, immunocompromised) as it has always been.

    Face masks are a joke if not worn correctly. Using fabric is like stopping golf balls with a chain link fence. Medical grade facemasks are appropriate, or for the hyper-determined out of an abundance of caution a plastic bag over the head tightly secured around the neck is the safest bet. </sarcasm - don't try this at home>

    A person's eyes are another entrance point. And if one pays close attention to the videos of the Chinese disinfection crews, they are power washing floors with disinfectant...shoes are another source of transmission as the infected droplets fall to the floor and get picked up on the soles of shoes.

    There are therapeutics with a 40 year plus track record and evidence based treatment success that are deliberately being politically downplayed. How much stock in Pfizer does Fauci and other politicians own, I wonder?

    Simple hygiene, washing hands, not picking your nose or rubbing your face, all of the stuff doctors have preached since you were in grade school, goes a long way towards prevention.

    None of this is conspiracy "hoax," it is looking at the matter with eyes wide open having not drunk the koolaid. Fauci tells people what he wants them to hear, he can't make up his own "scientific" mind...sounds more like a b.s. artist than a scientist.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Whoa! Heavy ask ... lol
    This starts getting into conspiracy territory, which I disown. I believe governments have been doing the best they can. They can't just let people die, or be seen to do so, if deaths can be avoided.

    But it has to reach the point where health services have to live with covid, and begin to address the huge backlog of other very serious medical conditions that have been put on the back-burner, imo
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I meant hoaxers, autocorrect got me. As in people who believe it to be a hoax, like beating your wife you either do or you don't, I ain't accusing anyone...just asking. Been decades since I heard anyone proud of beating their wife....i know a lot that are vocally proud to state it is all a hoax...and they come in a variety of flavors.
     
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  9. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    How is baiting "hoaxers" *any* different??? No different, at all, than asking if someone has quit beating their wife...any alternate response is by default sucker to a hoax. And what if you learn you've been duped through the whole thing?

    I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but there is too much that does not add up. People *fully* vaccinated are getting sick, hospitalized, and dying. The numbers are higher than reported, they are deliberately downplaying the breakthrough cases. That's not conspiracy, that's fact. Also fact, there are doctors having great success (close to 100%) if caught early enough using established therapeutics...why the push for experimental, still unapproved, vaccines? Why is social media covering up these facts? Nothing whatsoever to do with conspiracy theory, and the only hoax is being perpetrated by the government.

    So the very title of this thread is bait for a trap, enter if you dare so we can deficate all over you who spit out the koolaid. I am offended.

    My body, my choice. Get over it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I've fixed that wil
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    How am I baiting anyone here?

    I am interested in folks thoughts....what I have heard so far sounds ridiculous. I have not found any viable reason to avoid it. Risk vs reward seems straightforward to me and I wish to understand.
     
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  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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  13. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    A thoughtful article

    MIT Study: Vaccine Hesitancy Is 'Highly Informed, Scientifically Literate,' and 'Sophisticated'

    ..
    . Trying to shame the holdouts has failed spectacularly. Insulting and degrading them as “morons” or “ignorant” has resulted in a vicious pushback and a hardening of positions on getting vaccinated.

    The administration’s plan of sending people door to door to vaccinate them only feeds anti-vaccine skepticism. Trust in authority is at an all-time low, which makes a government-sponsored vaccine program suspect.

    Proponents of the vaccine are unwilling or unable to understand the thinking of vaccine skeptics — or even admit that skeptics may be thinking at all. Their attempts to answer skepticism or understand it end up poisoned by condescension, and end up reinforcing it.

    But a study done at MIT showed that a substantial portion of public-health skepticism was highly informed, scientifically literate, and sophisticated in the use of data. Skeptics used the same data sets as those with the orthodox views on public health.

    A more holistic approach to vaccine skepticism is needed if we are to get everyone who needs to be vaccinated protected. Allowances must be made for the legitimate concerns of citizens who, for their own reasons, don’t want to get jabbed. But if indeed, individuals are doing their own risk-benefit calculations, it would help enormously if the Left would refrain from their sickening condescension toward those with serious, legitimate questions ...
     
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  14. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Thank you. This says it far more politely than I would have.
     
  15. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I work in a hospital, I am vaccinated (single dose J&J, which with the initial concerns behind me, so far appears to be the more effective, though I had no way to know at the time). I *chose* to get vaccinated because of my work environment. As time goes on it is looking more to me like a BIG medical experiment. I respect those exercising their G!d given and Constitutionally guaranteed right to control over their own body.

    How about all the genetic data collection going on? Think that conspiracy? What about sites where folks voluntarily give up their DNA, ostensibly to chase out their family tree? One might ask, what does that have to do with Covid and vaccinations?, and that would be a reasonable question. How about tailored "biological warfare?" Think that farfetched, clearly one hasn't followed the science touted ever since the Genomic Code was deciphered. Immediately after it was touted that "now treatments for diseases like cancer can be tailored to the individual's unique genomic signature." And if treatments to cure can be tailored, so can bio-weapons. No longer is that science fiction, and hasn't been for some years now.

    Fauci once argued viral experiments worth the risk of pandemic (nypost.com)

    How is this conspiracy? Ignoring the facts does not make them go away.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    But I don't see this as suspicious. It's what it says: the possibility of a naturally occurring pandemic justified gain of function research and benefit of such research outweighed the risks.

    It was a mistake in hindsight -- assuming the virus escaped from the Wuhan lab -- but it was never a covert cabal with Fauci setting himself up to benefit from covid, by investment in Phizer, etc. Imo

    It says Fauci was calling for more transparency about the research, not trying to cover it up?
    That's the nature of scientific research: it can as often be used for ill purpose, as for good?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    23 and NOT ME...nope
     
  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Carman refuses to get vaccinated ...

     
  20. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Follow the money:

    https://dissidentvoice.org/2020/08/lancetgate-why-was-this-monumental-fraud-not-a-huge-scandal/

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...onavirus-papers-over-data-integrity-questions

    LancetGate - Knowledge is Good

    Funny what one can find once one knows what questions to ask...why wasn't this retraction from the Lancet a bigger story? That was a monumental moment in science, that doesn't just happen. And so much of the first world response to this virus was directly in response to that *fake* study, proven fake, acknowledged fake...and quietly buried while bigwigs proceed as if it is still valid, and the average joe doesn't even know to ask the question...

    Conspiracy alright, but not by me. Follow the money, the motivation is money.
     

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