Same God . . . .

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LensmanZ313

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I've been having a debate with some Christians.

I say that Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Many of them deny this, saying that "Allah" is an idol, a false god.

What do all of you say?
 
If we're going by attributes of God, Jews and Muslims worship the same God while Christians do not. But in my mind all of these attributes are external anyway, and perhaps projections of what we would want from God.

Dauer

edit: but by my second definition hindus also worship the same God, as well as Satanists. Going by attributes Muslims and Jews both pray to an indivisible, immaterial, genderless God beyond any adequate intellectual conceptualization while the Christian God is a Trinity.
 
LensmanZ313 said:
I've been having a debate with some Christians.

I say that Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Many of them deny this, saying that "Allah" is an idol, a false god.

What do all of you say?
Click to expand...
I think that is correct. Allah, God, the Father, Holy Ghost, Creator is the same thing.
It is just the way each of them percieve it a little different. I will keep saying this til I die...LOL

I am a Christian, but not all Christians see God as 3 in 1. Or 3/1. I see God as ONE.
I believe Jesus was a man and is the Messiah and Saviour and not just a prophet but I do not believe Jesus is God but rather the express image of the invisible God. I see Jesus as a man from start to finish who was recieved up into glory and now sits on Gods right hand excercising the authority that God gave to him.

Most Christians see the man Jesus as God and there about 5 different versions of that.

Some Christians see Jesus as Michael the angel. Some see Jesus as a spirit offspring created (generated) of God prior to being a man and prior to creation.

On occasion you can meet a Jew or Muslim who accept Jesus as Messiah and Son of God, but not as God-and that is where the issues lay.
You can track each version of belief back to where it originated. I have looked at them all.

It kind of makes me an oddball Christian/Jew/Gentile:) .

Glory be to God the father and to His Son our Lord Jesus Christ.

That sentence can be looked at 10 different ways and is acceptable for any view of Christianity, but it is not accepted by the general Jew or Muslim.
;) Good luck with it;)
 
I think that it's impossible to answer this question as such, because to me the worship of God is an individual thing, rather than a collective thing. What I mean is that, in my opinion, not even all Christians worship the same God, let alone Christians and Muslims, Muslims and Jews, etc.

Now, I believe that there is only one God, and that this God has certain qualities and characteristics. If two people, regardless of religion, worship God by acknowledging his true qualities and characteristics, then they are both worshipping the same God.

For example, Jane (a Christian) prays to God thanking him for being a forgiving God. Rob (a Jew) prays to God thanking him for being a forgiving God. Jane and Tom are of different religions, but they are worshipping the same God.

Similarly, if two people are of the same religion, and one of them worships God by acknowledging his true qualities and characteristics, while the other does not because that one does not understand God or cannot discern God's character, then they do not worship the same God.

For example, Jane (a Christian) prays to God thanking him for being a forgiving God. Tom (a Christian) prays to God asking him to curse Tom's enemies rather than forgiving them for what they've done. Jane and Tom are both Christians (or at least profess to be so), but they are not worshipping the same God.

The problem with these analogies is that, obviously, they are too simplistic. In the real world religions set them selves up against each other and make common ground almost impossible because of fundamental differences. Jews will not accept Christ as the son of God. Christians will not accept Mohammed as a prophet. Muslims will not acknowledge the Jews as God's chosen nation. As long as the members of a religion hold onto these basic differences, they are prevented from worshipping the same God.

But it is my belief that, given the chance, we would all worship the same God. Personally, I think that (to differing extents) we all worship God incorrectly; none of us truly understand God, because it's just too much for us-- there is too much for us to understand without a direct, God to person revelation.

So to throw in my answer: We do not worship the same God, but we are trying to insofar as we are all trying to worship the one true God.
 
That was a very good post Marsh. Has me grinning because it is all so true.

I have been wondering what God is seeing when he sees all these different minds praying to Him. I mean the different ideas we all have about Him as we pray and live each day with Him.
I am sure God is lifted up whenever someone lifts Him up, but like you said if we are not doing it the way we are supposed to, then we are not serving the same God.

Very enlightening.:)
 
I'm a Deist; I believe that the Bible was influenced by Zoroastorianism, along with some pagan beliefs. I don't have a problem with the concept of the three main monotheistic religions worshipping different aspects of the same God or Creator.

That's where I stand.
 
Well the simple answer Goes back to Abraham and his two sons

I am not sure why any Christian Jew or Muslim would argue about this for any other reason than trying to deny his brothers birthright.

Christianity seems to hold the view that No one other than a Christian will be saved. I being a believer in Jesus cannot imagine a sacrifice as great as His death being narrowed down to just Christians. I dont feel comfortable trying to put limits on what God can do even when reading scripture like "No one comes unto the Father except thru me" that is a broad stament that I think the church has tried to put in a box.

I am not certain as to the division of religion why we seem to always be at each others throats so to speak. The Jewish faith has since I started searching for my God held a very dear place in my heart being true in most parts to the religion and customs handed down to Jesus and what I feel should have been handed down to me (tho Christianity has in my view strayed pretty far from the original plan)

I being in middle US have very little knowledge of the Muslim beliefs I do however hold a deep respect for the devotion most of them show I see from my view a diferent plan for Abrahams son and his heirs but dont understand how it works on the grand scheme of things.

God Allah Jesus(and his Father) however you believe seems to be in control and have a plan for this world I am afraid of what any religion would do with the Knowledge of the future and the outcome of the master plan.

We have all killed each other in "Gods" name used our own twist on the Word to justify our deeds as a culture.

I myself come before God as one man I dont know all the answers I believe and try to live what I see as the truth. I hold no resentment from the past towards anyone and cannot in my heart say that you are wrong no matter how you choose to worship or by what name you start your prayers.
 
It's not so much about worshipping different "gods" as much as elevating one source of revelation over another - which becomes a real issue when revelation has to be exclusive, rather than exclusive, of other viewpoints.
 
Well I guess it depends on whether you embrace a GOD of wrath or a GOD of love. Man made religion and its dogma is the only thing that stands between the people and the oneness of GOD. Religious structures are coming down and more people are moving their energy into their hearts and communicating directly with GOD and his/her legions of light, the evidence of their own experience of GOD is beginning to hold more weight in many hearts of true divine love.

"You are the light of the world,
the flame of love that purifies
whatever stands in the way
of complete oneness with GOD"

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
I said:
It's not so much about worshipping different "gods" as much as elevating one source of revelation over another - which becomes a real issue when revelation has to be exclusive, rather than exclusive, of other viewpoints.
Click to expand...
Very well said.
Brian is my God :D
 
I too find the core concept of all the Faiths to be the same... Only the Symbols..and..details are different....
and its unfortunate.... these symbols and details.... have taken over the core concept.
...and has been made so rigid by MAN.... that it has ended in WARS and destruction
....with each one insisting... that their symbol of God and their details about it are the true one...
... I see Humanity progressing.... Like a Child... who starts school.... Infacny...then Class 1 or Prep or whatever.. ...from where formal education begans....( Adam , Noah...etc..) then the Middle (grade 5 or equivalent in over part of world ) ...Abraham....and Moses.... .. then Class X, Matirc, or A level whatever you can come up... Jesus... then......progressing the same way.... One completes his formal education.... Like MA or MSc or Phd... ( Mohammed ) may peace be upon all of them....
Then starts the uncharted territory.... where there is no formal education... but rather... we Built on... on the education we have received so far...
So in essense.... Moses .....Jesus..... and Mohammed.... are stages.... in this process....
and if One want to enter Practical Life after....( middle ) ... and says... he has all the education he needs.... and feels comfortable with it... and think its sufficient...
then for Him ... It is sufficient.....
.....so I think its the same processes all along....
 
I too find the core concept of all the Faiths to be the same... Only the Symbols..and..details are different....
and its unfortunate.... these symbols and details.... have taken over the core concept.
...and has been made so rigid by MAN.... that it has ended in WARS and destruction
....with each one insisting... that their symbol of God and their details about it are the true one...
... I see Humanity progressing.... Like a Child... who starts school.... Infacny...then Class 1 or Prep or whatever.. ...from where formal education begans....( Adam , Noah...etc..) then the Middle (grade 5 or equivalent in over part of world ) ...Abraham....and Moses.... .. then Class X, Matirc, or A level whatever you can come up... Jesus... then......progressing the same way.... One completes his formal education.... Like MA or MSc or Phd... ( Mohammed ) may peace be upon all of them....
Then starts the uncharted territory.... where there is no formal education... but rather... we Built on... on the education we have received so far...
So in essense.... Moses .....Jesus..... and Mohammed.... are stages.... in this process....
and if One want to enter Practical Life after....( middle ) ... and says... he has all the education he needs.... and feels comfortable with it... and think its sufficient...
then for Him ... It is sufficient.....
.....so I think its the same processes all along....
 
Christians Worship the God of Israel who we only know through the revelation of Jesus Christ. Christ is the Reason the God is Israel is known throughout the world. Without the Messiah and his saving grace there would be no ability to know god. Unless we repent through Christ no one can know God. I know the Jews and Muslims dont like this idea but so it goes. I invite you to repent through the sacrifice of Christ and ask for forgiveness of sins and salvation. If you feel nothing and it doesnt work then i ask you kindly to please let me know how I can get to heaven. I have committed sins in my past but I want to be righteous now. How can I erase my past sins and carry on working for God with a clean heart. Can the Muslims or Jews give me an Answer I can Live with that really works?!?

YES The Christians Worship the God of Israel. The Muslims worship Allah, who is the God of the Moon (At least in the old Bedouin Arab theology). Allah is the strongest among many Gods in the Arab pantheon (not the only God). Although most Mulsims would deny this, research Arab history and you will see that Allah/alla is simply one of many gods (small g).
Having said that, Most Muslims believe that they are worshiping the true and Only God, so who's to say who they are really worshiping. Muslims are not evil and they dont believe they are praying to an evil god, so i guess we should take their word for it. As Christians we should judge them by their fruits however. And their fruits are typically violent towards Christians throughout the entire the world, and certainly to Jews in Israel. GOD will relveal the truth in the end.
Jesus Saves...all you have to do is ask.
 
I see you are on a mission to evangelize us. Good luck :) . You say Allah is one god in the Arab pantheon. Whatever the history of the word is I think that the contemporary defintion is God Almighty, the One and Only. Iam not Muslim but I gather ths is how they perceive It.

You say that Jesus showed us the True God, that of Israel. First off I will tell you that I believe in Christ and the power in its name. I don't believe Jesus is God though. Anyway with that said. The God of Israel had quite a few names. I don't claim to know the defintion of all of them but there were alot of them(names).

YHWH; the "tetragrammation", the 4 consonants standing for the ancient Hebrew name for God also referred to as Yahweh. Since YHWH was considered too sacred to pronounce, the term Adonai (my Lord) was used.

According to another source, adonai was on e of the 7 elohim or angels of the presence( creators of the universe) in Phonecian mythology. Adonai is also an angel invoked in the conjuration of Wax (in Solomonic magic operations) and in exorcisms of fire.
In Ophite Gnosticism, Adonai is one of 7 angels generated by Ildabaoth.

El Shaddai;appears in Exodus 6:3, Gen 17:1 among other places. It is translated God Almighty. There is some dispute though, some sources indicate that El Shaddai was a "mountain God."

Elohim, in Hebrew stands for Jehovah(YHWH) in the singular or plural. The term derives from the female singular "eloh" plus the masculine plural "im", God thus being conceived originally as androgynous.
In I Samuel 28:13, where the woman(not the witch) of Endor tells Saul, "I saw gods (the Hebrew gives elohim) ascending out of the earth", the word would seem to designate spirits of the departed(from below not above) rather than gods or God.
Eloi- one of the seven angels created by Ildaboath.

Interestingly Jesus yells with his final breath, " Eloi Eloi, lama sabachthani."
 
My, My, My. We die young. Couldn't even get to the fourth post.

Jews, Muslims, and Christians with their heads on straight worship the same God. Not all Christians believe in the Trinity, but I think that the Trinity is necessary for those who don't want to disobey the commandment that insists that we not worship any idols. Modern understanding must find a reasonable exception to the rule. :eek:

And I think Marsh said it well when she said that we are trying to worship the one true God - though we continously advance in our understanding. The story has already been told - though Christians and Jews might not like the idea, Christians are just liberal (terribly liberal :eek: ) Jews. Judaism and Islam is unwavering in thier cultural roots. I like that.
 
I am a Muslim and I believe God is One and Only Creator. He said it Himself in the Old Testament and the Qur'an that He is One and that there is no other God but him.
Allah in Arabic means God. However, those who hated Islam in the wake of Qur'anic interrpreting continued to write in the translations The Almighty's Holy Attribute: Allah, as if meant to show that this is some other diety, other than God.
This Holy Name of God simply means: The God. It cannot be pluralized and it does not have male or female origins (I think Arabic speaking people would be better to explain this). For this reason, to show their belief in Oness of God, Muslims use this Holy Name to refer to Him, The God.
Some Christians do not believe in the same God of Israel or the Qur'an, because they claim Jesus was a god. Obviously Jews and Muslims cannot believe that Jesus, a human being, can be a god or son of a god.
Jesus was conceived in a miroculous way, but that does not mean he is divine. If anything, the first man, Adam p.b.u.h., would be a better candidate for divinity (if a human being can ever be divine, which I do not believe) because Adam p.b.u.h. did not have a human father or mother. God simply said: Be! and he was.
In fact, God in the Old Testament and in the Qur'an seems to be able to create creatures with only saying: "Be!" and than it is.
 
Also,
the old Arabs were descendants of Ishmael, one of the sons of Abraham. Ishmael believed in the God of Abraham. Hence the Arabic awareness of One God, which they called the High God. Over the times they grew to believe that they cannot be personally in contact with Him and invented idols. When Islam came this was abolished with the message that God sees, hears and knows everything and that a person does not need a mediator to be in contact with God The Merciful.
Muhammad's p.b.u.h. message meant to have Arabs go back to the faith of Abraham. Old Arabs believed that their faith was abrahamic faith as it was and with Muhammad saying that they worship in a wrong way, they considered it blasphemous.
This post is just to explain that Allah was not an old idol of the ancient Arabs, but a Concept that had existed since Ishmael that the ancient Arabs changed into something it was not.
 
On the issue of Same God, I posted a rather old short article on the main site a while ago:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/articles/parable_sea.php

I see differences in perception of Divinity as primarily arising from viewing divinity through both cultural and personal lenses, which create an image that makes most sense only if it relates to cultural and personal biases and schema.

Of course, some people may disagree - simply my perception.
 
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