Compulsory Covid Vaccination For Under 50 s

muhammad_isa

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Tens of thousands of people have staged a protest in Austria against measures to curb the spread of Covid-19, including mandatory vaccinations.

Police say about 44,000 people rallied in the capital, Vienna, the fourth straight weekend of demonstrations.

Last month Austria became the first western European country to reimpose a lockdown for those who are vaccinated, which ends on Sunday.
But restrictions will continue for unvaccinated people.

The protesters, backed by the far-right Freedom Party, are against the government's decision to make Covid-19 jabs mandatory from February.
 

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

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Tens of thousands of people have staged a protest in Austria against measures to curb the spread of Covid-19, including mandatory vaccinations.

Police say about 44,000 people rallied in the capital, Vienna, the fourth straight weekend of demonstrations.

Last month Austria became the first western European country to reimpose a lockdown for those who are vaccinated, which ends on Sunday.
But restrictions will continue for unvaccinated people.

The protesters, backed by the far-right Freedom Party, are against the government's decision to make Covid-19 jabs mandatory from February.
I wonder how many of those maskless protesters are free of any COVID variant ("Can you say 'superspreader event'? I knew you could!")

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 

Cino

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I don't have anything to add to what I wrote earlier, so I won't.

I think the following is problematic:

vaccine apartheid

The person who used this phrase does not know what Apartheid was like, I feel it safe to say.

Unfortunately, people here in Germany are using equally unacceptable comparisons. Some antivaxxers even wear badges like the ones used in Nazi concentration camps to identify groups of prisoners, claiming they are the "new Jews".

Nope, nope, nope. This is a terrible way to voice dissent. In my eyes, it immediately disqualifies whoever is using such comparisons with the Shoah, or Apartheid, or similar.

Enough said.
 

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As usual reasonable people are caught in a dilemma as the lunatic fringe takes up their cause and gets them tarred with the same brush.

Compulsory vaccination: nope, nope, nope
 

Cino

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As usual reasonable people are caught in a dilemma as the lunatic fringe takes up their cause and gets them tarred with the same brush.

We have a saying here in Germany: Even though beer is mostly water, we still call it beer, not water.

If a rally tolerates the lunatic fringe in their midst, that taints it. The reasonable ones are giving silent consent to the noisy minority.
 

RJM

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If a rally tolerates the lunatic fringe in their midst, that taints it. The reasonable ones are giving silent consent to the noisy minority.
Does the same apply to climate change protestors gluing themselves to motorways and blocking major cities? Is that also to be condemned? Is it still wrong when it applies to a cause I myself support? Should the reasonable protestors stay home because of the nut-gone fringe?
 

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The person who used this phrase does not know what Apartheid was like, I feel it safe to say.

Unfortunately, people here in Germany are using equally unacceptable comparisons. Some antivaxxers even wear badges like the ones used in Nazi concentration camps to identify groups of prisoners, claiming they are the "new Jews".
The difference is that Jews and black people cannot submit to pressure and become white or not Jewish in order to be allowed to belong to the society of the land in which they were born and are citizen -- otherwise the principle is the same. And it is the principle that is at issue?
 

Cino

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Should the reasonable protestors stay home because of the nut-gone fringe?
No, but they are not at the mercy of the nutcases, either. They choose their allies.

I'm not condemning people who happen to be in a rally with some crazy fringe people.

If they however keep associating with the crazy fring people, over and over, that makes them crazy fringe sympathizers, to put it mildly.
 
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Cino

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The difference is that Jews and black people cannot submit to pressure and become white or not Jewish in order to be allowed to belong to the society of the land in which they were born and are citizen -- otherwise the principle is the same. And it is the principle that is at issue?

I don't think it is the same principle at all, no!

I won't take anyone seriously who equates Apartheid or the Shoah with having to - gasp - be considerate of anyone but themselves.

Edited to add this important point: Not directed at you, @RJM Corbet! Or anyone else discussing this here! Just sick and tired of historical revisionists seizing the opportunity to spread their agenda.
 
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wil

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There used to be a law in the winter in Alaska...

Required you to pick up hitchhikers and help stranded folk.folk in the winter.

It fell under the category of attempted homicide.

Without a doctor's recommendation ... I don't see the difference.
 

Ella S.

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No, but they are not at the mercy of the nutcases, either. They choose their allies.

I'm not condemning people who happen to be in a rally with some crazy fringe people.

If they however keep associating with the crazy fring people, over and over, that makes them crazy fringe sympathizers, to put it mildly.

Alternatively, I feel like if you refuse to ally with crazy fringe people to help create political change that you believe would be beneficial, then you clearly care more about condemning others than helping them.
 

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Does that statement not apply to both sides of the coin?

Absolutely, yes, it does. I might not agree with what other people view as "good," but I think we all have a duty to pursue what we see as good.
 

Cino

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Alternatively, I feel like if you refuse to ally with crazy fringe people to help create political change that you believe would be beneficial, then you clearly care more about condemning others than helping them.
Speaking for Germany, where I live, the crazy fringe political goals involve murder of politicians and journalists, gunning down foreigners at the borders (inner-European borders), blaming religious minorities for all the evils of the world, denying science, denying basic rights to non-heterosexual persons, and so on.

Even if I wanted to, there is no overlap between their political ambitions and mine.

Other countries may have more benign forms of the crazy fringe. Here, it's the same old.
 

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From:
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/18095/page-36#post-353557

But really, so are COVID vaccines.


The vaccines were 'rushed out' by virute of the fact that the authorities dealt with problems that usually slow down the entire process.

The relatively quick development of these vaccines does not mean safety measures were skipped.

There are several reasons why the COVID-19 vaccines were developed so quickly:
  • It's a 'First Word' problem, so had resources thrown at it that fights against malaria, say, could only dream about.
  • New technologies had been evolving through studies of previous virus outbreaks. The blueprint was there, it was just a case of fine-tuning for SARS-CoV-2.
  • Countries shared information rather than 'protecting' data to keep a competitive advantage.
  • Some testing stages were conducted simultaneously, rather than the norm which is to proceed slowly, one step at a time.
  • Money was given for vaccine development in advance, so companies did not have to go through long and laborious tendering processes, presentations, the weighing of competitive bids, etc. etc. This alone cuts years off the process.
  • New insights into 'messenger RNA' (mRNA) accelerated the way vaccines are made.
  • Social media was utilised to call for volunteers, and plenty of people wanted to help, there was no shortage of test subjects.
  • Many volunteers who had been vaccinated were exposed to the virus, and with so many exposures, it took a shorter time to see if the vaccines worked.
  • Again, money up front meant companies began manufacturing vaccines before authorisation so supplies would be ready.
In short, the processes are quite fast, what slows the whole thing down is not testing, but bureaucracy.

The process was put on a war footing – there's a reason why all manner of advances, technical, medicinal, scientific, occur during wartime – that does not mean spitfires or submarines were rushed recklessly into production, rather that 'red tape' (bureaucracy at its best) was cut and necessary resources – money – was made available up front.


No, it's not. Nor is thinking they'll listen to reason. They don't and moreover, they won't. They don't want to, they're invested elsewhere.

There are more flat-earth believers in the country that put men on the moon than anywhere else on the planet. Try reasoning with them.
IMO the only way of knowing long term effects of a drug is waiting to see. If you go to the channel below you will find several videos of people with serious life changing side effects, even in the short term. Campbell is a well-respected doctor -- not a crank.

https://youtube.com/c/Campbellteaching

The point is not everyone who is cautious about taking this vaccine is an anti-vaxx flat earther. The point is getting completely lost. It's difficult to convince sceptical people under 50 that the only reason to take a drug they believe might harm them in the long term is to prevent them transmitting covid to those already vaccinated against it -- even thought the vaccination does not prevent them transmitting the disease.

There will always be a new variant. It's not going to end.

The reaction is to call them flat earthers and hooligans and murderers, and force them to get the vaccine. It's not good enough. They need to be persuaded by better logic than the above, not sneered down at.

Compulsory Covid 19 vaccination is totally wrong. IMO

I'm out of this now ...
 
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Thomas

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IMO the only way of knowing long term effects of a drug is waiting to see.
But surely the prognosis is better than simply let the pandemic run its course and hope for herd immunity?

to the channel below you will find several videos of people with serious life changing side effects, even in the short term.
OK, but to be fair, the issue is not with the vaccine itself, so that clouds things. He seems to support the vaccine?

The point is not everyone who is cautious about taking this vaccine is an anti-vaxx flat earther.
Fair enough ...

drug they believe might harm them in the long term

Because there's no evidence of harm.

They need to be persuaded by better logic than the above, not sneered down at.
I would say their logic is at fault, not that the arguments for lack logic.

It seems that the primary reason people refuse is mistrust ... and logic rarely figures once that's set in.
 
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RJM

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Because there's no evidence of harm.
Nor was there for thalidomide; covid vaccines haven't been out yet for even a year
I would say their logic is at fault
It's logical to trust big drug companies?
not that the arguments for lack logic.
Please explain the logic of under 50 having to take a drug you believe might harm you against a disease from which you know your age group is extremely unlikely to suffer harmful effects -- in order to prevent you transmitting it to people in the most vulnerable age group who have been vaccinated -- in spite of the fact that being vaccinated will not stop you transmitting the disease?
 
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