I wonder how many of those maskless protesters are free of any COVID variant ("Can you say 'superspreader event'? I knew you could!")
Tens of thousands of people have staged a protest in Austria against measures to curb the spread of Covid-19, including mandatory vaccinations.
Police say about 44,000 people rallied in the capital, Vienna, the fourth straight weekend of demonstrations.
Last month Austria became the first western European country to reimpose a lockdown for those who are vaccinated, which ends on Sunday.
But restrictions will continue for unvaccinated people.
The protesters, backed by the far-right Freedom Party, are against the government's decision to make Covid-19 jabs mandatory from February.
As usual reasonable people are caught in a dilemma as the lunatic fringe takes up their cause and gets them tarred with the same brush.
Does the same apply to climate change protestors gluing themselves to motorways and blocking major cities? Is that also to be condemned? Is it still wrong when it applies to a cause I myself support? Should the reasonable protestors stay home because of the nut-gone fringe?If a rally tolerates the lunatic fringe in their midst, that taints it. The reasonable ones are giving silent consent to the noisy minority.
The difference is that Jews and black people cannot submit to pressure and become white or not Jewish in order to be allowed to belong to the society of the land in which they were born and are citizen -- otherwise the principle is the same. And it is the principle that is at issue?The person who used this phrase does not know what Apartheid was like, I feel it safe to say.
Unfortunately, people here in Germany are using equally unacceptable comparisons. Some antivaxxers even wear badges like the ones used in Nazi concentration camps to identify groups of prisoners, claiming they are the "new Jews".
No, but they are not at the mercy of the nutcases, either. They choose their allies.Should the reasonable protestors stay home because of the nut-gone fringe?
The difference is that Jews and black people cannot submit to pressure and become white or not Jewish in order to be allowed to belong to the society of the land in which they were born and are citizen -- otherwise the principle is the same. And it is the principle that is at issue?
No, but they are not at the mercy of the nutcases, either. They choose their allies.
I'm not condemning people who happen to be in a rally with some crazy fringe people.
If they however keep associating with the crazy fring people, over and over, that makes them crazy fringe sympathizers, to put it mildly.
Does that statement not apply to both sides of the coin?Alternatively, I feel like if you refuse to ally with crazy fringe people to help create political change that you believe would be beneficial, then you clearly care more about condemning others than helping them.
Speaking for Germany, where I live, the crazy fringe political goals involve murder of politicians and journalists, gunning down foreigners at the borders (inner-European borders), blaming religious minorities for all the evils of the world, denying science, denying basic rights to non-heterosexual persons, and so on.Alternatively, I feel like if you refuse to ally with crazy fringe people to help create political change that you believe would be beneficial, then you clearly care more about condemning others than helping them.
IMO the only way of knowing long term effects of a drug is waiting to see. If you go to the channel below you will find several videos of people with serious life changing side effects, even in the short term. Campbell is a well-respected doctor -- not a crank.But really, so are COVID vaccines.
The vaccines were 'rushed out' by virute of the fact that the authorities dealt with problems that usually slow down the entire process.
The relatively quick development of these vaccines does not mean safety measures were skipped.
There are several reasons why the COVID-19 vaccines were developed so quickly:
In short, the processes are quite fast, what slows the whole thing down is not testing, but bureaucracy.
- It's a 'First Word' problem, so had resources thrown at it that fights against malaria, say, could only dream about.
- New technologies had been evolving through studies of previous virus outbreaks. The blueprint was there, it was just a case of fine-tuning for SARS-CoV-2.
- Countries shared information rather than 'protecting' data to keep a competitive advantage.
- Some testing stages were conducted simultaneously, rather than the norm which is to proceed slowly, one step at a time.
- Money was given for vaccine development in advance, so companies did not have to go through long and laborious tendering processes, presentations, the weighing of competitive bids, etc. etc. This alone cuts years off the process.
- New insights into 'messenger RNA' (mRNA) accelerated the way vaccines are made.
- Social media was utilised to call for volunteers, and plenty of people wanted to help, there was no shortage of test subjects.
- Many volunteers who had been vaccinated were exposed to the virus, and with so many exposures, it took a shorter time to see if the vaccines worked.
- Again, money up front meant companies began manufacturing vaccines before authorisation so supplies would be ready.
The process was put on a war footing – there's a reason why all manner of advances, technical, medicinal, scientific, occur during wartime – that does not mean spitfires or submarines were rushed recklessly into production, rather that 'red tape' (bureaucracy at its best) was cut and necessary resources – money – was made available up front.
No, it's not. Nor is thinking they'll listen to reason. They don't and moreover, they won't. They don't want to, they're invested elsewhere.
There are more flat-earth believers in the country that put men on the moon than anywhere else on the planet. Try reasoning with them.
But surely the prognosis is better than simply let the pandemic run its course and hope for herd immunity?IMO the only way of knowing long term effects of a drug is waiting to see.
OK, but to be fair, the issue is not with the vaccine itself, so that clouds things. He seems to support the vaccine?to the channel below you will find several videos of people with serious life changing side effects, even in the short term.
Fair enough ...The point is not everyone who is cautious about taking this vaccine is an anti-vaxx flat earther.
drug they believe might harm them in the long term
I would say their logic is at fault, not that the arguments for lack logic.They need to be persuaded by better logic than the above, not sneered down at.
Nor was there for thalidomide; covid vaccines haven't been out yet for even a yearBecause there's no evidence of harm.
It's logical to trust big drug companies?I would say their logic is at fault
Please explain the logic of under 50 having to take a drug you believe might harm you against a disease from which you know your age group is extremely unlikely to suffer harmful effects -- in order to prevent you transmitting it to people in the most vulnerable age group who have been vaccinated -- in spite of the fact that being vaccinated will not stop you transmitting the disease?not that the arguments for lack logic.