Life After Death

It's a compelling issue, and one that I'm interested in researching further (Thanks a lot for the link :D). But I'm not too sure if it applies to everyone. I'm a bit leery of saying offhand that I have a "soul" in the Judeo-Christian sense, and that it would remain intact after death. Like the human body, I believe the soul (for lack of a better term) responds to its environment and is not uniform for all things and people-thus may not behave the same way for everyone after death.

If anything, I'm actually afraid of the concept of an afterlife...lol...well, at least for me, I don't see a reason to continue once this life is overwith.
 
Dear mirrorinthefog

I honour your views, so why do you think you are here, why were you born? what is the reason for being?

Why do you think that Jesus communicated with Mary Magdalene, Paul and the other apostles after his ascension if it was not to prove life after death?

blessings

Sacredstar
 
Dear Sacredstar,

As I said before, I don't think it's right to blindly deny the possibility of life after death. It certainly is possible, and nobody can-at least at this point in time-disprove it sufficiently.

But when it comes to the question of why I'm here, personally...the fact is there may not be a reason at all. There might not be a higher purpose in anything, including my being an (arguably) sentient creature. There's no way to know for sure.

As for Jesus, Mary Magdeline etc., of course I respect your ideas in this matter, but I think not everyone will agree with your views on the events surrounding these people or their reasons for being. I happen believe, as you do, that they were actual people (another point of dispute among many :rolleyes: ) and that they were visionaries, perhaps with some measure of divinity in them.

Maybe not...Who knows? Again, I don't know if their existance can be taken as absolute proof that everyone who hapens to be of our species will continue to maintain their sense of self and their "essence" or "soul" once they've ceased to be among the living.

I'm not saying it's impossible, in fact it's quite possible :) I'm saying simply that it's also just as possible that it's not applicable to everyone, as in reincarnation, esp, and other paranormal activity.

I'm sure you'd agree that not everyone who dies becomes a spirit trapped between two states of existance? We can't expect everyone to end up ghosts, and likewise, I believe, we can't expect them to reincarnate, or move on to whatever the next level may be (if there is one), or cease to exist altogether. I think it depends on the conditions surrounding the person's death as much as the individual's nature.

I could be wrong of course. I guess I'll find out when it's all said and done. hehe :D
 
Dear Mirrorinthefog

Thank you for sharing.

mirrorinthefog said:
1) I'm sure you'd agree that not everyone who dies becomes a spirit trapped between two states of existance?

2) We can't expect everyone to end up ghosts, and likewise.

3) I believe, we can't expect them to reincarnate, or move on to whatever the next level may be (if there is one), or cease to exist altogether.

4) I think it depends on the conditions surrounding the person's death as much as the individual's nature.I could be wrong of course. I guess I'll find out when it's all said and done. hehe :D
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1) Agreed
2) Well ghosts are energies that have not gone towards the light and get stuck in this dimension. I have been called out to send a few of them home to the light when they are being a pain to the new householders. LOL!
3) Depends on state of soul evolution and purification, I know that i won't be back on earth again. Big smiles!
4) You could be right, could also be based upon what one as achieved on a soul level during the current life.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
I'm a Wiccan, I've been practicing Wicca now for over twenty years, and I've done a huge amount of reading about occult topics including life-after-death stuff.

Personally I tend to agree with Mirrorinthefog on this. There are a lot of theories people use to try and explain what they think might happen after death but when we get down to evidence there isn't really anything that stands up to scientific scrutiny.

I'm not convinced either that the idea of each of us having a purpose for existing is anything other than an attempt to rationalize something that isn't necessarily rational. Sure, we can look at the examples of famous people who've done amazing things in their life but then what about all the billions of other people who thought they were destined for greatness but didn't succeed? We only ever remember and talk about the great successes as though they prove the point rather than prove to be remarkable exceptions.

Whether we have a purpose to exist, at least to me, isn't really relevant. I'm here so I might as well make the best of the situation and experience life to the fullest, and in the process if I manage to accomplish something good that puts me anywhere near the category of "the great memorable ones" then I guess that's just how it works out. But I'm not sure that feeling incomplete because I haven't figured out what my purpose is supposed to be is necessarily going to work for me. Maybe it does for some people, but then I don't believe there is such a thing as a "One True Way" anyways.

Perhaps we really are just thinking meat and when we die that's the end of it for us personally. All the more reason why we shouldn't put off things in this life in the hope that we'll get to do them in some uncertain next life.
 
I often wonder about this subject. As a child I use to imagine what this place looked like drawing pictures of it as if it was a distant faded memory not quite forgotten but not quite remembered.

The picture would have these huge doors of gold and a wall and when the doors opened this ray of light shined so brightly yet it didn't hurt your eyes to look at it in fact you couldn't look away it was so beautiful. And there were flowers growing everywhere and birds singing at least it sounded like birds though I never saw them just beautiful singing. I almost died twice when I was young once as a baby and the other at the age of 5 which is an age a child could remember things because I remember my kindergarten teacher and even being in the hospital when I was sick.I had a high fever of 106 and I remember being pushed on a bed down the hospital halls and yelling when they put me in really cold water, and dreaming alot of weird things..........

Why I would remember drawing these pictures what seemed like alife time ago I don't know but I'm very at peace when I think about them and I for myself that there is life after death, a place waiting for me now if it's this place I use to draw who can say I even can't but I hope it does look like it and sound like it, it's weird but I always imagined steps in clouds too. Like white fluffy clouds all around the steps and a lot of them it seems like a thousand but it's as if I see them as a child and we all know things look different when we're a child like the house you grew up in seemed much bigger then and as an adult it really isn't that big at all.

Well just my thoughts on the subject..........
 
This is one of those topics that doesn't have a lot of tangible evidence to back it up (stating the obvious already sorry:eek:) but the combination of past life knowledge (i know i know it could be genetic etc etc) and near death experiences plus the channeling of various deceased peoples, does give rise to at least accepting the possibility. I myself wouldn't nessasarilly subscibe whole heartedly but it is fascinating, and I do consider that this realm of exhistance resembles something like a boot camp of the soul.

Just a view.
 
Hello bgruagach,
Earlier, you said:
Personally I tend to agree with Mirrorinthefog on this. There are a lot of theories people use to try and explain what they think might happen after death but when we get down to evidence there isn't really anything that stands up to scientific scrutiny.{Emphasis mine.}
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Have you read anything by Ian Stevenson? He presents some pretty convincing evidence for reincarnation. His books "20 Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation" & "Where Biology and Reincarnation Intersect" really are worth reading, if somewhat dry.


"Where Biology and Reincarnation Intersect" explores how the physical characteristics (injuries, etc.) in one lifetime may be carried over to the next lifetime and be reproduced in that particular body.

"20 Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation" describes and examines cases of spontaneous memories of previous lives - generally in children aged between 5 and 8 years old. In some cases - prior to Dr. Stevensons' arrival - the child was beaten, in order to stop the statements and questions about a previous wife or husband etc.


He doesn't claim that the cases he describes prove reincarnation, but he does say: "In the study of spontaneous paranormal phenomena we must usually interview and cross-question informants about events that have happened before we arrive on the scene. In principle, the methods are those that lawyers use in reconstructing a crime and historians use in understanding the past. Once we have the best account possible of the events in question, we consider one by one the alternative explanations and try to eliminate them until only the single most probable one remains. Then we try with further observations to confirm or reject the initially preferred explanation. In addition, we search through series of apparently similar phenomena for recurrent features that may provide clues to causative conditions and processes of occurrence."

He also says: ""I think a rational person, if he wants, can believe in reincarnation on the basis of evidence."


It's been four to five years since i read these books, i think the information i've given is correct. They were available from the Library.


There is much information on this subject at http://www.childpastlives.org/index.htm - it includes an interview with Dr. Stevenson, as well as some case histories (shorter than those in his books), and interviews, etc.
Also, the case of "Shanti Devi", by Dr. K.S. Rawat, is very interesting.

The "Birthmarks and Birth Defects Corresponding to Wounds on Deceased Persons" article mentioned is available from: http://www.sinor.ru/~che/birthmarks.htm
 
I haven't read Ian Stephenson's books but I understand there is at least a mention of him and his work in Mary Roach's recent book "Spook: Science Tackles the Afterlife."

It's not exactly a scientific book either but it does apparently explore some of these topics with regards to recent research in an entertaining and readable way.
 
Having previously been a Christian, now converted to Wicca, i get abit torn on how i feel about life after death. As a Christian I believed that your soul passes on to heaven or hell, depending on how well you lived to the Lords word etc etc etc, but while i've been studying Wicca, it seems they believe in reincarnation, that you are re-born as another being, not necissarily human! But i'm not sure i like that idea! I don't believe in hell or the devil, and can't then really believe in 'heaven' but i like to think that when we leave our physical bodies, that our 'souls' meet up 'somewhere' with those we've loved in our lifetimes, family, friends etc

)O(
 
I thought that some Wiccans, like some modern Druids, believe that the souls of the dead go to a sort of "Summerland," a place of rest where they meet up with departed loved ones and relax for a while before the next journey/incarnation.

This has been my understanding, at least, based on what I've read, but granted it's been more the Druidic tradition than the Wiccan.

I'm actually a Christian, but many Christians disagree on what the concepts of heaven and hell actually mean. Are they literal places or states of being? And does reincarnation ever occur? Most conservatives and fundamentalists would say they are literal, eternal places. As a liberal Christian and a Druid, I would say they are states of being or consciousness, and though I'd love to hang around in heaven forever, my own spiritual journey has brought me to a place in which I accept that reincarnation may happen for some people. I don't know why and I don't pretend to know what happens in the afterlife for everyone- it may even be different for different people. We all have our purposes, and this may mean some of us come back at times. One of my most difficult spiritual lessons so far was letting go of my attachment to family, friends, and pets enough to give up my eternal life to God- I want to be where He/She/It wants me to be. Even if that is to come back here again and be without them. I believe that if I am reincarnated, there is a purpose there- for myself and/or for others- and I want to live for God's purposes and not my own. Put alternatively, and in a less Christian wording, is that I want to live in accordance with the Path of Most Harmony, in accord with Ultimate Reality, in whatever form I take (body, spirit, etc.) and I give up my own will to this higher plan.
 
Amitola said:
Having previously been a Christian, now converted to Wicca, i get abit torn on how i feel about life after death. As a Christian I believed that your soul passes on to heaven or hell, depending on how well you lived to the Lords word etc etc etc, but while i've been studying Wicca, it seems they believe in reincarnation, that you are re-born as another being, not necissarily human! But i'm not sure i like that idea! I don't believe in hell or the devil, and can't then really believe in 'heaven' but i like to think that when we leave our physical bodies, that our 'souls' meet up 'somewhere' with those we've loved in our lifetimes, family, friends etc

)O(
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I thought Wicca embraced faiths, and one did not have to give up one's faith to be Wiccan...hence your concept of heaven and hell, may still be viable for you. All the more to blessed be...;)

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
I thought Wicca embraced faiths, and one did not have to give up one's faith to be Wiccan...hence your concept of heaven and hell, may still be viable for you. All the more to blessed be...;)

v/r

Q
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Wicca draws its inspiration from pretty much any source that doesn't run away too fast. However, I don't think it's accurate to say that you can be both Wiccan and another faith as Wicca is a religion.

Can you be a Jewish Christian or a Jewish Muslim? If the answer is yes, then perhaps someone could be a Wiccan Christian too. If the answer is no, then it's not going to be different regardless which two religions we're talking about.

Borrowing ideas or practices from a particular religion does not make the practitioner a member of that religion.

On the topic of life after death, though, Wicca does not have a single answer. Wicca isn't really a religion of dogma so on almost any question there will be a variety of answers which can all be considered valid for Wiccans.
 
bgruagach said:
Wicca draws its inspiration from pretty much any source that doesn't run away too fast. However, I don't think it's accurate to say that you can be both Wiccan and another faith as Wicca is a religion.

Can you be a Jewish Christian or a Jewish Muslim? If the answer is yes, then perhaps someone could be a Wiccan Christian too. If the answer is no, then it's not going to be different regardless which two religions we're talking about.

Borrowing ideas or practices from a particular religion does not make the practitioner a member of that religion.

On the topic of life after death, though, Wicca does not have a single answer. Wicca isn't really a religion of dogma so on almost any question there will be a variety of answers which can all be considered valid for Wiccans.
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I don't know about Jewish Muslim, but Jewish Christian, yes. Again, I draw my views from people I've met and some books I've read (along with a couple ficticious novels as well, by Orson Scott Card).

Also, much of Christian traditions, holidays, saints, lore, etc., are of pagan origins.

Some would call Druidic Christians and oxymoron, but for the fact that it is an historical truism.

But I digress. I was curious, and got my question answered. Thank you.

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Some would call Druidic Christians and oxymoron, but for the fact that it is an historical truism.
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And a contemporary one as well. :) Of course, modern Druidry can mean any number of things, some of which are compatible with Christianity and some that are not.

I have personally not heard as much about Christian Wiccans (or Wiccan Christians) but some of my students in the past informed me that they felt themselves to be both Wiccan and Catholic, so I guess they are out there. Perhaps they were utilizing the term Wiccan when what they meant was nature-centered, or something of the sort. I really don't know.
 
path_of_one said:
And a contemporary one as well. :) Of course, modern Druidry can mean any number of things, some of which are compatible with Christianity and some that are not.

I have personally not heard as much about Christian Wiccans (or Wiccan Christians) but some of my students in the past informed me that they felt themselves to be both Wiccan and Catholic, so I guess they are out there. Perhaps they were utilizing the term Wiccan when what they meant was nature-centered, or something of the sort. I really don't know.
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I think that there are a lot of people who are confusing "witch" with "Wiccan." A witch can practice any or no religion because witchcraft itself is really just about doing magick. Wicca, on the other hand, is a religion.

There are definitely Christian witches, Jewish witches, Wiccan witches, witches who follow other Pagan religions (and aren't Wiccan), Muslim witches, and even atheist witches. But being a witch or practicing witchcraft does not automatically make one Wiccan.

Borrowing ideas or practices from a specific religion doesn't make you a member of that religion, any more than eating in a Chinese restaurant can make me (a Caucasian of British descent) a Chinese person.
 
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