How would interfaith work with those who are not into worship?

seattlegal

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There is an objective mind and a subjective mind. I would think it is the objective mind that might lend itself to delusion, not a subjective mind.
https://medium.com/all-things-philosophical/subjective-and-objective-63465fa88fd4
Alright, let's go back to what you said about sentient beings in post #33
Last I checked a Sentient Being is something that is able to feel and perceive, and show awareness or responsiveness. Nothing about subjective reality.
Is the source of the feelings a sentient being experiences in the objective mind, the subjective mind, or somewhere else? The place that a sentient being experiences feelings or emotions is surely in the subjective mind, no? How can a sentient being have the capacity to experience feelings without a subjective mind?
 

RabbiO

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Some see worship as harmful. I can see noble silence or things like the metta chant, but what about when it comes to those who want to worship and those who find worship harmful?
I know it is a little late for me to note that I am a bit confused. Are you equating interfaith work with worship?
 

seattlegal

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I know it is a little late for me to note that I am a bit confused. Are you equating interfaith work with worship?
No, not at all. I'm asking how interfaith works when it comes to reconciling those who desire to worship with those who think worship can be a cause of harm.
 

'Amir Alzzalam

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Alright, let's go back to what you said about sentient beings in post #33

Is the source of the feelings a sentient being experiences in the objective mind, the subjective mind, or somewhere else? The place that a sentient being experiences feelings or emotions is surely in the subjective mind, no? How can a sentient being have the capacity to experience feelings without a subjective mind?
https://medium.com/all-things-philosophical/subjective-and-objective-63465fa88fd4
 

HugoZyl

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No solution for it?
I beg to differ. We can do something about greed. We can start with ourselves. We can promote righteous values.

Dear Muhammad_isa

God's peace be upon you. I agree with you completely. The elimination of greed can be called the very purpose of life, and the greatest worship of the Lord our God. My saying ''there is no solution'' was in response to the opening post about how Interfaith brothers and sisters have trouble worshiping together.

Allahu Akbar


My biblical verse quotes describe a different god than yours, one who demands and desires worship and it's 'not' for the benefit of His worshipers as you attempted to twist the plot into that direction.

Dear Amir Alzzalam

Peace and love to you dear brother. This point you are touching on is quite profound and needs to be considered carefully. The Supreme Lord of the Universe does not have an ego. That means there is no sense of individuality or separate consciousness. The Supreme God cannot want something from His worshipers as He IS His worshipers in terms of Knowledge or Consciousness.

Then why does the Holy Bible speak as you quoted so accurately? Because there is a love story relationship between God and His children. We love Him as a Father, Mother, Friend, Husband, Child, etc. In the same way as a mother might pinch her dear baby's cheek, and then when it cries out, rush it into her arms filling its face with kisses - so the Loving Lord which dwells in the heart of all will appear to show anger as we fall into sin, just to quickly help us out again, warning us to worship Him always, for example. The greatest love story ever told, we might call it.

May the most Cherished Lord of Love dance through our minds and hearts from the moment of our birth till the body returns to dust.

Hallelujah
 

'Amir Alzzalam

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Dear Muhammad_isa

God's peace be upon you. I agree with you completely. The elimination of greed can be called the very purpose of life, and the greatest worship of the Lord our God. My saying ''there is no solution'' was in response to the opening post about how Interfaith brothers and sisters have trouble worshiping together.

Allahu Akbar




Dear Amir Alzzalam

Peace and love to you dear brother. This point you are touching on is quite profound and needs to be considered carefully. The Supreme Lord of the Universe does not have an ego. That means there is no sense of individuality or separate consciousness. The Supreme God cannot want something from His worshipers as He IS His worshipers in terms of Knowledge or Consciousness.

Then why does the Holy Bible speak as you quoted so accurately? Because there is a love story relationship between God and His children. We love Him as a Father, Mother, Friend, Husband, Child, etc. In the same way as a mother might pinch her dear baby's cheek, and then when it cries out, rush it into her arms filling its face with kisses - so the Loving Lord which dwells in the heart of all will appear to show anger as we fall into sin, just to quickly help us out again, warning us to worship Him always, for example. The greatest love story ever told, we might call it.

May the most Cherished Lord of Love dance through our minds and hearts from the moment of our birth till the body returns to dust.

Hallelujah
Are you sure about that? LOL
 

wil

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a figment of your imagination
No, not at all. I'm asking how interfaith works when it comes to reconciling those who desire to worship with those who think worship can be a cause of harm.
That is the specificity needed for discussion of s universal interfaith meeting eh?

A meeting of the minds as to what we put on the pizza so we can all have a piece.
 

Ella S.

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Interestingly, the idea that John was influenced by 'Gnosticism' has now been abandoned by scholars, as our understanding of Hebrew mystical speculation has increased in the last 50-odd years, thanks to Christians actually listening to Hebrew scholars!

Having said that, from the standpoint of gnosis – rather than a narrow-perspective 'Gnostics' (a la Cerinthus, perhaps), then I can see that.

Do they not favour Paul at all?

I wasn't aware that John's Gnostic influence was abandoned by scholars, but I'm not surprised. To be quite honest, I never quite understood what other Gnostics saw in it. A lot of the supposed symbolism they drew out seemed like a stretch. That said, it's true that a lot of modern Gnostic sects, like the Mandaens and the Johannites, place an emphasis on the figure of John, so perhaps that has something to do with it.

Personally, I'm more of a Sethian. Despite my flirtations with Jung, I mostly try to stick to Sethian texts with a particular fondness for Zostrianos and the works of Zosimos. As such, I don't really use the Christian Bible at all, although I retain a lot of respect for some of the verses and the Sermon on the Mount from when I was Catholic.

As for Paul, some Gnostics do hold him in high regard. Marcion surely did, although I personally wouldn't consider Marcion a Gnostic. The Paulicians did, but, again, I wouldn't really consider them Gnostic, either. Many modern Gnostic Christians still view the Bible as essentially canon, unlike me, although their attitudes toward Paul specifically vary from person to person.

There might be some later Gnostic sects that placed special reverence on Paul. I'll admit that I've really only studied Sethianism, Valentinianism, Bogomilism, Catharism, Manichaeism, and Mandaeism with any seriousness, which are the main heavy-hitters in most discussions. I don't know very much about, say, the Borborites or the Audians, aside from their existence.
 

Ella S.

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Be advised, my thinking worship is cringy is my own personal hang-up I am trying to work through.

Life is cringe. A well-lived life is sappy, cheesy, hammy, and awkward, and the first steps in any pursuit will be riddled with mistakes and failure. Of course worship is cringy. Anything meaningful is.
 

seattlegal

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Life is cringe. A well-lived life is sappy, cheesy, hammy, and awkward, and the first steps in any pursuit will be riddled with mistakes and failure. Of course worship is cringy. Anything meaningful is.
While I agree with you that life is cringe (First Noble Truth) that doesn't mean that everything cringy is worth doing--especially harmful and criminal stuff. We have a brain to figure these things out (which is what I am currently trying to do.)
 

Thomas

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I'll admit that I've really only studied ... I don't know very much about, say ...
I think you know bloomin' more than most of us here, and you're welcome for it :D

I read your posts with interest, and have already shifted my stance a degree or so on some aspects ....

... there, that's my twopennyworth of cringeworthy fawning done for the day!
 

Cino

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That said, it's true that a lot of modern Gnostic sects, like the Mandaens and the Johannites, place an emphasis on the figure of John, so perhaps that has something to do with it.
Don't the Mandaeans, at least, revere John the Baptist rather than the Evangelist?
 

seattlegal

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No solution for it?
I beg to differ. We can do something about greed. We can start with ourselves. We can promote righteous values.

I totally agree that it is far from easy. Most of us in the west are surrounded by a system that promotes greed.
..and yes, we have ourselves to blame as we make compromises with our religion [Christian mainly in the west]
..so much so, that we no longer consider sins to be sins. :(
I would go so far to extend it to transforming greed, hatred, and delusion within ourselves, and work to stop the propagation of these poisons. (Hence my concern with the possibility of worship spreading delusion among sentient entities (be they human or otherwise.)
 

Cino

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Be advised, my thinking worship is cringy is my own personal hang-up I am trying to work through.

Does your School of Buddhism not have devotional practices? In Thereavada, there is a Pali chant (Buddhavandana) paying homage to the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. Basically enumerations of good qualities. And in Vajrayana, the various Sadhanas are cultivating, among other qualities, a worshipful attitude, to my understanding.

A few years ago, I was in a Berlin cafe where two musicians were performing, a singer and a violinist. At one point, they chanted a short mantra, to Ganesh if I remember correctly, and the audience joined in. The mythological Ganesh might actually have enjoyed it, rather than be annoyed, what with all the tasty cakes and pastries on display at the counter... Anyway. It was something of a spontaneous interfaith worship thing, and I liked it, even if I don't believe in any gods.
 

seattlegal

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Does your School of Buddhism not have devotional practices? In Thereavada, there is a Pali chant (Buddhavandana) paying homage to the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. Basically enumerations of good qualities. And in Vajrayana, the various Sadhanas are cultivating, among other qualities, a worshipful attitude, to my understanding.

A few years ago, I was in a Berlin cafe where two musicians were performing, a singer and a violinist. At one point, they chanted a short mantra, to Ganesh if I remember correctly, and the audience joined in. The mythological Ganesh might actually have enjoyed it, rather than be annoyed, what with all the tasty cakes and pastries on display at the counter... Anyway. It was something of a spontaneous interfaith worship thing, and I liked it, even if I don't believe in any gods.
I was stealthily introduced to Buddhist Zen practice by my Sen-Sei years ago. It didn't contain any devotional practices. I've basically been a solitary practitioner and researcher my entire time as a Buddhist.
 

Cino

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I was stealthily introduced to Buddhist Zen practice by my Sen-Sei years ago. It didn't contain any devotional practices. I've basically been a solitary practitioner and researcher my entire time as a Buddhist.
I see. Zen is not that big on devotion.
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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Some see worship as harmful. I can see noble silence or things like the metta chant, but what about when it comes to those who want to worship and those who find worship harmful?

Interfaith to me reflects the oneness of humanity, a unity in our diversity.

When we embrace our oneness as a human race, we can overcome these minor barriers.

Regards Tony
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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Well, if there really is a deity, how would that deity be affected by thousands of voices in their head singing their praises, asking for a boon, or whatever?

I see Prayer is for the benefit of humanity as a whole. We are one people on one planet connected by the human mind.

Humanity needs ro embrace our oneness in our diversity. A most spectacular garden needs different colour flowers.

Regards Tony
 
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