Born Again of Water and the Holy Spirit

Geoffrey

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Where's your sense of adventure? Notice that I said that interested readers might "begin their reading" at the link I offered?

Scroll down past the blurb asking you to subscribe.

Find the photo of the "Jerusalem Perspective" issue in question.

The caption reads: This article originally appeared in issue 42/43/44 of the Jerusalem Perspective magazine. Click on the image above to view a PDF of the original magazine article.

I guess I'm not just old, but also "old school." (Can you tell I've been a university teacher for 30 years?) :)

Happy hunting!
 
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RJM

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Where's your sense of adventure? Notice that I said that interested readers might "begin their reading" at the link I offered?

Scroll down past the blurb asking you to subscribe.

Find the photo of the "Jerusalem Perspective" issue in question.

The caption reads: This article originally appeared in issue 42/43/44 of the Jerusalem Perspective magazine. Click on the image above to view a PDF of the original magazine article.

I guess I'm not just old, but also "old school." (Can you tell I've been a university teacher for 30 years?) :)

Happy hunting!
I'll check it out Geoff.
Thanks
 

RJM

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I have heard of him, but I don't know much about him beyond that he was supposedly gifted from a young age and had an interpretation of Christianity that essentially discounted the notion of sin entirely so long as someone was devoutly focused on God.
I never got that side of him. He may have mentioned Jesus, but I don't recall reading it. He was a Hindu paramansa bhakti. The link is a pdf of 'The Gospel of Ramakrishna'

But it was years ago I read it
 

RJM

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@Geoffrey
Well I have read the article and accept the idea that Jesus's 'style' may be more derived from Hasidim than from the Essenes, as is more often suggested. But does it offer a key to Jesus's statements and the role of Nicodemus?
 
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RJM

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Hi @Ella S.
I have just found this Ramakrishna quote:

I have practised all religions - Hinduism, Islam, Christianity - and I have also followed the paths of the different Hindu sects. I have found that it is the same God toward whom all are directing their steps, though along different paths. You must try all beliefs and traverse all the different ways once. Wherever I look, I see men quarrelling in the name of religion - Hindus, Mohammedans, Brahmos, Vaishnavas, and the rest.

But they never reflect that He who is called Krishna is also called Siva, and bears the name of the Primal Energy, Jesus, and Allah as well - the same Rama with a thousand names. A lake has several Ghats. At one, the Hindus take water in pitchers and call it ' Jal ' ; at another the Mussalmans take water in leather bags and call it ' pani '. At a third the Christians call it ' water '.

Can we imagine that it is not ' Jal ' , but only ' pani ' or ' water '? How ridiculous! The substance is One under different names, and everyone is seeking the same substance; only climate, temperament, and name create differences. Let each man follow his own path. If he sincerely and ardently wishes to know God, peace be unto him! He will surely realize Him."


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakrishna
 

Ella S.

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Hi @Ella S.
I have just found this Ramakrishna quote:

I have practised all religions - Hinduism, Islam, Christianity - and I have also followed the paths of the different Hindu sects. I have found that it is the same God toward whom all are directing their steps, though along different paths. You must try all beliefs and traverse all the different ways once. Wherever I look, I see men quarrelling in the name of religion - Hindus, Mohammedans, Brahmos, Vaishnavas, and the rest.

But they never reflect that He who is called Krishna is also called Siva, and bears the name of the Primal Energy, Jesus, and Allah as well - the same Rama with a thousand names. A lake has several Ghats. At one, the Hindus take water in pitchers and call it ' Jal ' ; at another the Mussalmans take water in leather bags and call it ' pani '. At a third the Christians call it ' water '.

Can we imagine that it is not ' Jal ' , but only ' pani ' or ' water '? How ridiculous! The substance is One under different names, and everyone is seeking the same substance; only climate, temperament, and name create differences. Let each man follow his own path. If he sincerely and ardently wishes to know God, peace be unto him! He will surely realize Him."


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakrishna

While there's not enough evidence for me to claim that God exists, and I think I could make positive arguments for why he doesn't, I still hope that if God is real then I am learning to understand his Logos through his Works in Nature.

Many people would say that logic itself is the language through which God made the universe, and that our rational mind was a gift from him so that we may know him better. I have always been attracted to this particular "path to God."

In a sense, logic is my religion, which is something that some of the people in my life have pointed out to me independently and something I had already suspected of myself before they said anything. Logic certainly stirs feelings in me that nothing else does, such as tranquility, awe, and passion. There is a spiritual quality to it for me that's hard to describe.

The more I read from Ramakrishna, the more I think about that spiritual quality and particularly about the role of God in Stoicism.
 
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Ella S.

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I never got that side of him. He may have mentioned Jesus, but I don't recall reading it. He was a Hindu paramansa bhakti. The link is a pdf of 'The Gospel of Ramakrishna'

But it was years ago I read it

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna said:
"Bondage is of the mind, and freedom is also of the mind. A man is free if he constantly thinks: 'I am a free soul. How can I be bound, whether I live in the world or in the forest? I am a child of God, the King of Kings. Who can bind me?' If bitten by a snake, a man may get rid of its venom by saying emphatically, There is no poison in me.' In the same way, by repeating with grit and determination, 'I am not bound, I am free', one really becomes so — one really becomes free.

"Once someone gave me a book of the Christians. I asked him to read it to me. It talked about nothing but sin. (To Keshab) Sin is the only thing one hears of at your Brahmo Samaj, too. The wretch who constantly says, 'I am bound, I am bound' only succeeds in being bound. He who says day and night, 'I am a sinner, I am a sinner' verily becomes a sinner.

"One should have such burning faith in God that one can say: 'What? I have repeated 'the name of God, and can sin still cling to me? How can I be a sinner any more? How can I be in bondage any more?'

"If a man repeats the name of God, his body, mind, and everything become pure. Why should one talk only about sin and hell, and such things? Say but once, 'O Lord, I have undoubtedly done wicked things, but I won't repeat them.' And have faith in His name."

Here we are, from "The Master and Keshab" in Volume 1. Sounds a lot like the Stoic notion of the "unconquerable mind" of the virtuous
 
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RJM

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Ramakrishna often went into a samahadi state of divine bliss. It could happen to him anywhere. His followers used to just wait until he 'came down'. He was an extraordinry human being, imo

He had no possessions at all
 

Ella S.

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Ramakrishna often went into a samahadi state of divine bliss. It could happen to him anywhere. His followers used to just wait until he 'came down'. He was an extraordinry human being, imo

He had no possessions at all

Where did he sleep?
 

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Where did he sleep?
He lived in a temple, slept perhaps on some sort of camp bed. I don't know -- very basic. His devotees visited him and gave him food. He wanted nothing at all. His followers sometimes took him out to the theatre, or whatever. It's all in the book.

It's a while since I read it. However that's what I seem to remember, essentially about him ...

(edited)
 
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Cino

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@Geoffrey
Well I have read the article and accept the idea that Jesus's 'style' may be more derived from Hasidim than from the Essenes, as is more often suggested. But does it offer a key to Jesus's statements and the role of Nicodemus?

I didn't read tbe article (yet), but am interested in how the massive anachronism of putting Jesus in a Hasidic context is dealt with? There's a 1500 year disparity?
 

Geoffrey

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@Geoffrey
Well I have read the article and accept the idea that Jesus's 'style' may be more derived from Hasidim than from the Essenes, as is more often suggested. But does it offer a key to Jesus's statements and the role of Nicodemus?

The Ignatius Catholic study Bible notes that Nicodemus was probably a member of the Sanhedrin, the contemporary Jewish council or tribunal and therefore a "teacher of Israel." Jesus goes on in the passage to say that, "you do not receive our testimony." I think Jesus is saying that Nicodemus is stuck in the "received wisdom" of the day and "just doesn't get it" (Jesus' message regarding "heavenly things").
 

Geoffrey

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I didn't read tbe article (yet), but am interested in how the massive anachronism of putting Jesus in a Hasidic context is dealt with? There's a 1500 year disparity?

The Hasidim of Jesus' time are a totally different group from the Hasidic Jews from Eastern Europe; they just use the same term hasid, meaning "pietist." Wikipedia has an entry that you might find interesting. Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasidic_Judaism
 
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