Guidance

[Cino]

I think prayer and research is powerful but you have to be wary of anything trying to mislead you on your way too I suppose.

What's the worst that could happen?

What would happen if you never got on the way? Would that be safe?

I'd love for a group or a religion to say this is what we do this is why we do it here is the scriptures that tell us why we do it and for it to all add up so I go..."this feels right" ...still waiting

Don't they all say precisely this? I mean, there's always more commentary and exegesis than scripture, it seems to me.

What question are you asking, is it really about the proper mode of worship?

 

[Namaste Jesus]

I've always felt extremely conflicted about the correct way to give myself to God or the power I know exists, as of right now I would probably best call myself a Christian, but even then I feel like a lost sheep. I have looked into various different theologies I have also looked into Islam.

That's understandable. I'm Christian, but my wife is Hindu and having been exposed to Indian culture, I did briefly consider converting. However, a Hindu Priest showed me the error in my thinking, stating that to following one, does not deny the other and that even if I did change religions, I'd still be a devotee of Christ. Albeit from a different paradigm.

I'd love for a group or a religion to say this is what we do this is why we do it here is the scriptures that tell us why we do it and for it to all add up so I go..."this feels right" ...still waiting

I can relate to this as well. None of the churches I attended growing up felt quite right to me. Always seemed more the traditions of man being celebrated than the traditions of God. It wasn't until I began reading the Bible on my own, that it all started to click and align with what I always felt inside. I think it's the way religion is taught sometimes, more so than the scripture itself that sours people on faith. Even in Jesus' time here, there were but two churches he found no fault with.

So to this day. I simply identify as Christian, with no denomination or other divisions attached to it. However, I place no limitations on God and do not believe Christians hold any exclusive rights or that our perceived image is the only correct one.

I'm new here, for as long as I can remember I've always felt a connection with "God" I know there is something there.

I saved your first statement for last, because this speaks volumes. I myself cannot recall a time I did not feel the presence God. God touches our lives in so many ways each and everyday. Sadly though, many turn a blind eye to God's touch. Rejoice my friend, for clearly you have not. You've taken God into your heart and this acceptance also shows your faith and devotion. Now honor that faith and devotion in all that you do, thereby praising and serving God.

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

 

[SeekingTheWay]

That's understandable. I'm Christian, but my wife is Hindu and having been exposed to Indian culture, I did briefly consider converting. However, a Hindu Priest showed me the error in my thinking, stating that to following one, does not deny the other and that even if I did change religions, I'd still be a devotee of Christ. Albeit from a different paradigm.

I can relate to this as well. None of the churches I attended growing up felt quite right to me. Always seemed more the traditions of man being celebrated than the traditions of God. It wasn't until I began reading the Bible on my own, that it all started to click and align with what I always felt inside. I think it's the way religion is taught sometimes, more so than the scripture itself that sours people on faith. Even in Jesus' time here, there were but two churches he found no fault with.

So to this day. I simply identify as Christian, with no denomination or other divisions attached to it. However, I place no limitations on God and do not believe Christians hold any exclusive rights or that our perceived image is the only correct one.

I saved your first statement for last, because this speaks volumes. I myself cannot recall a time I did not feel the presence God. God touches our lives in so many ways each and everyday. Sadly though, many turn a blind eye to God's touch. Rejoice my friend, for clearly you have not. You've taken God into your heart and this acceptance also shows your faith and devotion. Now honor that faith and devotion in all that you do, thereby praising and serving God.

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

this was really helpful thank you, I think we've had a lot of similar experiences, Hinduism is something I've been exposed too also and reading different philosophies born from it lead me to a similar conclusion.

I have always felt that God presence and sometimes I do turn a blind eye to it then I get to a point where I feel an overwhelming urge to pray and almost beg God to show me the right way.

I think I have been a sort of "lone" Christian, in a sense that on paper I'm a Catholic, but I've never really subscribed to the idea of the pope, or the worship of Mary, or the amount of statues of saints you'll find inside a church. so I've always sort of had my own way of doing things I guess.

 

[SeekingTheWay]

What's the worst that could happen?

What would happen if you never got on the way? Would that be safe?


Don't they all say precisely this? I mean, there's always more commentary and exegesis than scripture, it seems to me.

What question are you asking, is it really about the proper mode of worship?

Yeh, I suppose they do all do that, but I've not come across one yet that feels right to me, I'll refer back to Catholocism, for instance, they can give me reasoning for having a pope....but I don't feel comfortable with it.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Yikes, don't you think this is a condescending and limiting view of religion

I think it is a logical, rational, understanding of the mechanics behind this delusion called Faith.

 

[Cino]

Yeh, I suppose they do all do that, but I've not come across one yet that feels right to me, I'll refer back to Catholocism, for instance, they can give me reasoning for having a pope....but I don't feel comfortable with it.

Would you still be interested in God if your yearning for something that feels right was satisfied, and thus, gone?

 

[SeekingTheWay]

Would you still be interested in God if your yearning for something that feels right was satisfied, and thus, gone?

good question, and the answer is yes. I'd aim to give myself to that way of doing things wholeheartedly

 

[Modesty]

I can totally relate to this, I loved the uniform rigidity of Catholicism but I always felt really guilty when praying to God knowing that some Catholic practices (in my opinion) broke his direct instructions, which I guess is why I've always stressed myself to get it 'right' ....I think prayer and research is powerful but you have to be wary of anything trying to mislead you on your way too I suppose. I'd love for a group or a religion to say this is what we do this is why we do it here is the scriptures that tell us why we do it and for it to all add up so I go..."this feels right" ...still waiting

I definitely can see what you mean. I struggled for a long time with Catholic teaching before it made intellectual 'sense' to me...and then it stopped making sense again, so I'm also kind of in limbo (no pun intended) faith-wise right now. I don't think you have to worry about being misled though; God knows our limitations, and He doesn't expect us to know everything. Ask Him to guide your search for the truth and He will.

 

[Modesty]

I think it is a logical, rational, understanding of the mechanics behind this delusion called Faith.

It's unfortunate that you think so. There have been many logical, rational people who deeply thought out their faith. I wouldn't consider Aquinas, Isaac Newton, or Kierkegaard deluded people (all of whom believed in God, albeit expressed differently). I have to say I'm surprised to hear such a low view of religious people expressed on an interfaith forum, but I don't want to derail this thread.

 

[Francisco Gonzalez]

It's unfortunate that you think so. There have been many logical, rational people who deeply thought out their faith. I wouldn't consider Aquinas, Isaac Newton, or Kierkegaard deluded people (all of whom believed in God, albeit expressed differently). I have to say I'm surprised to hear such a low view of religious people expressed on an interfaith forum, but I don't want to derail this thread.

Modesty (mental quality defined as posessing a moderate self view/'intermediate') lives up to her name, very much to my liking.

 

[Cino]

good question, and the answer is yes. I'd aim to give myself to that way of doing things wholeheartedly

I see. I want to ask "what's stopping you now", but I realize that would be a bit out of place, and anyway you already showed some of your reasons. Welcome again, and I hope you'll find what you seek.

 

[Thomas]

... in a sense that on paper I'm a Catholic ...

... Catholic made intellectual 'sense' to me ... and then it stopped making sense again, so I'm also kind of in limbo faith-wise right now...

Withdraw for Lent, and come back to find Catlicks!

Belated welcome to you both .... I am with you in these statements.

... worship of things other than God (Mary and so on, as much as Catholics will say they don't worship Mary)...

I have sometimes found the test of my Catholicism is mixing with other Catholics! Marian devotion is something I understand and allow for, but the line between reverence, devotion and deification is blurred and I often wonder 'are you sure this is not idolatry?'

Having said that, she just will not go away, and I wonder if there is not something deeper at play here, the Goddess thing, without getting into the whole issue, the Divine Feminine which, in 'standard' Christian theology, doesn't get a look-in at all.

Anyway, welcome again, maybe chat more down the line ...

 

[Cino]

Marian devotion is something I understand and allow for, but the line between reverence, devotion and deification is blurred and I often wonder 'are you sure this is not idolatry?'

There are several devotees of the Lady of Czenstochowa in the Catholic branch of my family. They even obtained a little amulet from her shrine, when it was still behind the Iron Curtain.

 

[RJM]

Having said that, she just will not go away, and I wonder if there is not something deeper at play here, the Goddess thing, without getting into the whole issue, the Divine Feminine which, in 'standard' Christian theology, doesn't get a look-in at all.

The Mother of God ...

Sancta Maria mater deus, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae (Holy Mary mother of god, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death)

Glorious!

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

It's unfortunate that you think so. There have been many logical, rational people who deeply thought out their faith. I wouldn't consider Aquinas, Isaac Newton, or Kierkegaard deluded people (all of whom believed in God, albeit expressed differently). I have to say I'm surprised to hear such a low view of religious people expressed on an interfaith forum, but I don't want to derail this thread.

Please note that I never referred to anyone as delusional, I referred to faith as a delusion. There is a difference, allow me explain from a Left Hand Path perspective.

Perennial philosophy is the understanding that all the world's Right Hand Path religions share a single, universal doctrine. This doctrine posits that the highest achievement that human life can achieve is through the union with a Supreme Being/Energy/Universal Reality. The way in which this is achieved is through the deception of one's conscious awareness into believing that one has been accepted by this Universal Reality. When this union is completed the individual self is annihilated, the individual Will becomes one with that alleged Universal Reality.

This faith in a Universal Reality, usually referred to as God, is seen by the Left Hand Path as without evidence, illogical, and induces mental suffering.

 

[Thomas]

Glorious!

Quite! And in that prayer she is neither idolised nor deified – her glory is a reflection of His, as it were, and her faith in Him.

A theologian on my course described that seminal moment ...
"And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine. And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come. His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye." (John 2:3-5)
... as the archetypical Jewish momma in action!

We pray for her intercession, as we do of all the angels and saints and those who have gone before.

There is that joke: Jesus says to Peter, at the Pearly Gates, 'Close the gates, allow no-one in. We're getting crowded in here, I'll have to organise something.' Shortly after, Jesus notices they're more crowded than ever. He marches up to Peter: 'I thought I told you to shut the gates?'
'I have,' Perter says. 'It's your mum, she keeps letting them in!'

 

[Thomas]

This faith in a Universal Reality, usually referred to as God, is seen by the Left Hand Path as without evidence, illogical, and induces mental suffering.

May I ask what the LHP has faith in?

 

[Thomas]

There are several devotees of the Lady of Czenstochowa in the Catholic branch of my family. They even obtained a little amulet from her shrine, when it was still behind the Iron Curtain.

My mum was one. My dad had a special devotion to St Joseph, but neither were idolators.

The Rosary, for example, is an efficacious practice – the prayers continually acknowledge Mary as Theotokos, which is only right and proper, and continually asks for her intercession with her Son. But the Mysteries we celebrate in the Rosary are all focussed on Christ.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

May I ask what the LHP has faith in?

In general LHP Adherents are non-theistic and therefore their 'faith' begins and ends with simple things, like they have faith the sun is going to rise tomorrow. Some of us, like myself, do believe in a Higher Self (Greater Self) that is non-corporeal and external to our objective reality.

However, even though this Greater Self is an isolate intelligence/force, it is not One Consciousness whereby we all are a part of. Not a singular intelligence or force, but rather our own, direct, intellect/psyche/soul guiding each of us in the most perfect direction that would enable each of us to attain our greatest potential. This isolate consciousness is our Platonic First Form, the absolute, full potential, and perfect You, of which it is possible to transcend to.

For us there is not One God, but as many as there are souls.

 

[Thomas]

For us there is not One God, but as many as there are souls.

Is there speculation on their origin?

If a belief in 'objective reality' is irrational or illogical, what affirms 'subjective reality' and preserves it from delusion?

Just trying to understand ...