Discussion in 'Modern Religions' started by Cino, Apr 25, 2022.
i shall answer you too later on, Cino...
meanwhile, remember that the Wikipedia is not a trustworthy source on every thing:
'Study: On Wikipedia, politically controversial science topics are vulnerable to information sabotage': https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/08...opics-are-vulnerable-to-information-sabotage/
'Wikipedia co-founder: “Wikipedia is broken,” run by bad actors and special interests to smear all voices of dissent': https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-05...er-wikipedia-is-broken-run-by-bad-actors.html
also, a man (Meredith), associated with the URANTIA movement almost from the beginning, wrote this related to the origin of URANTIA (but there's so very much more, of course), found here as well (https://web.archive.org/web/20140116120753/http://www.freeurantia.org/Appendix_A.htm):
5 epochal revelations?
Which are you referring?
Don't you know it's rude to ask a lady her age?
Just heckling you. I'm 22. And a half.
Urantia seems to be a coined word, from English, maybe Latin, etc., from root words such as Uranus, Urania, and so on, apparently meaning "heavenly body." The "Revelators" (celestial authors of the book, if you will) have a lot of such coined words, such as "Salvington" "Edentia" and so on. It seems that we can relate to them better.
Uh, ALL copies of the Urantia Book are supposed to be unadulterated and they are not supposed to have any interspersed commentary, AT ALL. I would be careful if you find such copies. Here is a site that contains the text of the book, not a pdf, but there may be those out there too. Try this: https://bigbluebook.org/
And the reason I post this site, as opposed to Urantia Foundation's site or the Urantia Fellowship's site is because it's "clean." That is to say, it's not asking for donations, it's not saying "Join here" and so on. It seems to be free from outside influences and pressures and agendas.
there were four before The Urantia Papers: https://interfaith.org/community/threads/20149/#post-359022 (admins: pls remove my previous post starting with 'there were four etc', this is the correct one, thank you).
We seem to have settled on calling ourselves "Urantians." Too bad that it sounds so much like Unitarians and Universalists and (any others?).
No, not much organizing, no churches, etc., though there has been some attempts made. Yes, some larger gatherings in the year, sometimes every 3 years, the Fellowship puts them on. I went to one outside of Montreal in 1999. There were about 700 of us, it was nice to be with people who pretty much has the same idea as I had. There are two "main" organizations, The Urantia Foundation and the Urantia Book Fellowship (which used to be The Urantia Brotherhood before the schism. LOL.) Urantia Foundation spun off a syncophantic sub group called the UAI or something like that to replace the no-longer-obedient Urantia Brotherhood after the big breakup. Urantia Foundation has a board of "trustees" (sic) (used to be 5 but there may be more now, appointed for life) that operate something like the Pope and his minions, appointed by God to be the sole bosses of everything. The Urantia Book Fellowship has 30 some (I think) people on what they call the general council, a somewhat democratic organization modeled on the Presbyterian setup, I think.
Sorry, I didn't see your post about creating this group for several days, but thanks again for creating it.
Like what? Put them up here please.
Let's hear them.
Not a religion? Not ever? Not 10,000 years ago? Not 100,000 years ago?
The book calls it an "evolutionary religion" in that paper.
I still.dont know.what the 5 are. Another link to the same post wont help.
When people ask me what I am, I say "I am a follower of Jesus." "Oh, you're a Christian then?" No. Christians are followers of Paul's teachings ABOUT Jesus. I am a follower of Jesus and HIS teachings about God the Father and our place in God's family.
Yes, pretty much.
Which are those, Ella?
Ella, a lot of times bible people will say, "The bible says..." and then they don't quote where the bible says what they say the bible says. Similarly, to your statement above, I searched for the term "scientific and historical" in The Urantia Book and couldn't find it. Yes, I know generally what you're going for but I think you should find it and quote the book, copy and paste it, and then we can the better talk about it.
Also, as far as I know, the Revelators have not given any "false information." Again, please quote the book, word for word.
In my own words...
The Fifth, The Urantia Papers.
The fourth, The visit of Jesus
Third, Melchizedek, 4000 years ago.
Second, Adam and Eve
First Caligastia, the Planetary Prince.
From the book:
92:4.4 There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance. These were as follows:
92:4.5 1. The Dalamatian teachings. The true concept of the First Source and Center was first promulgated on Urantia by the one hundred corporeal members of Prince Caligastia’s staff. This expanding revelation of Deity went on for more than three hundred thousand years until it was suddenly terminated by the planetary secession and the disruption of the teaching regime. Except for the work of Van, the influence of the Dalamatian revelation was practically lost to the whole world. Even the Nodites had forgotten this truth by the time of Adam’s arrival. Of all who received the teachings of the one hundred, the red men held them longest, but the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.
92:4.6 2. The Edenic teachings. Adam and Eve again portrayed the concept of the Father of all to the evolutionary peoples. The disruption of the first Eden halted the course of the Adamic revelation before it had ever fully started. But the aborted teachings of Adam were carried on by the Sethite priests, and some of these truths have never been entirely lost to the world. The entire trend of Levantine religious evolution was modified by the teachings of the Sethites. But by 2500 B.C. mankind had largely lost sight of the revelation sponsored in the days of Eden.
92:4.7 3. Melchizedek of Salem. This emergency Son of Nebadon inaugurated the third revelation of truth on Urantia. The cardinal precepts of his teachings were trust and faith. He taught trust in the omnipotent beneficence of God and proclaimed that faith was the act by which men earned God’s favor. His teachings gradually commingled with the beliefs and practices of various evolutionary religions and finally developed into those theologic systems present on Urantia at the opening of the first millennium after Christ.
92:4.8 4. Jesus of Nazareth. Christ Michael presented for the fourth time to Urantia the concept of God as the Universal Father, and this teaching has generally persisted ever since. The essence of his teaching was love and service, the loving worship which a creature son voluntarily gives in recognition of, and response to, the loving ministry of God his Father; the freewill service which such creature sons bestow upon their brethren in the joyous realization that in this service they are likewise serving God the Father.
92:4.9 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.
Thanks for the candor and the details. I find this kind of histotical backdrop fascinating, and by seeing how people try to incorporate such revelations into famiar structures, the picture becomes much more alive.
Since you mentioned early Christianity, Pauls role etc. - what do you think will prevent Urantia from taking a similar course? Many revealed faiths seem to face similar challenges in the second and third generation of adherents. Do the Papers address this?
Yes, good questions. Urantia Foundation already tried to take this course. Luckily, it was stopped for the time being when they sued a believer and he sued them back and they lost their copyright and thus control over the readership. They had even gotten so outrageously out of line that they sent some believers letters saying, "We do not wish to sell Urantia Books to you." But human nature seems to work against steering away from that course. (Some) humans want control. They want to be the new boss. They want to be important.
Urantia Foundation believes that they and they alone were appointed by God to shepherd the revelation. When people disagreed with that, Urantia Foundation sued them, took them to law in spite of the fact that in The Urantia Book there is a story about one of the apostles complaing to Jesus about other people preaching the gospel that were not trained by Jesus and the apostles. He wants to forbid them, but Jesus said, "Forbid him not." Still, Urantia Foundation kept it up. But they finally lost in court when the US Supreme Court declined to hear their case after a US District Judge and jury ruled against them and their copyright.
The problem for Urantia Foundation was that for 50 years they told the believers one thing about the authorship of The Urantia Book and they told the US Copyright Office something different. They could not have gotten a copyright if they had told the truth.
The thing about Paul is that Jesus never heard of Paul. Never heard of Paul, never mentioned Paul, never endorsed Paul to anyone. No one ever heard of Paul until Paul showed up talking about Paul. Paul admitted to being a con-man (2Co 12:16) and yet they still followed him and still do to this day. Paul preached a powerful message and as Mark Twain said something close to: "It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."
Yes, again, it seems to be human nature, some sort of ego flaw, for some to need to be in control and to elevate themselves, and for others to follow. The Urantia Book talks a lot about "the religions of authority" and how some folks prefer that to, as I think Ella mentioned, "the religion of personal experience," "ROPE" as some are taking to calling it.
For all interested 'non-technical' persons, it's very recommended to skip perhaps the Foreword to URANTIA, except page 1 and the rest in pg 2, and except a few others, or less-than other complete pages thereof.
On the other hand, you pointed out how in the Urantia book there is the story of the unauthorized teacher, and Jesus saying "forbid him not"? Same pattern, different context? But when to apply it, and when not? Just wondering, I have no stakes in this.
Interesting, and funny (to those not involved in such law suits). Again, parallels to other faiths in recent times - human nature, as you point out.
What are the teachings like - do they address day to day concerns, dietary rules, an ideal society?
Jesus wasn't around. However Paul says Christ knocked him off his horse and blinded him, to convert him over to spreading Christianity instead of murdering Christians as he had been doing.
Paul says he spent 15 days with Peter and met Jesus's brother James, who endorsed him as an apostle.
Etc, etc ...
And Lincoln is incorrectly attributed with: You can fool all of the people some of the time and you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Paul must have been very clever to invent Christianity that has such a great impact on history? Lots of folks try to invent religions, but they never last long
Perhaps Paul just spoke the truth?
He was bring heavily ironic in the contextL* He also called himself a fool.
*As in: we conned you by actually working and supporting ourselves, instead of hitting on you for free board and lodging like those others did ...
Separate names with a comma.