Adam and Eve Were the First Reincarnated Humans

[RJM]

Your argument concludes that if one does one percent sin, why not hundred percent sin be done? This equates to your statement that if one plucks a leaf why not we kill an animal. Are you pained equally if I steal one rupee or one lakh rupees from your pocket.

However this wasn't really my meaning. I was posting in the sense of Christian original sin. It is said that a baby is born without sin, but even a baby needs to breathe and drink, and these actions involve killing other forms of life, although agreed not higher forms of intelligent life. But that is why Jains wear a mask and carry a broom, to avoid breathing in a gnat or stepping on a beetle? Just being born into this dimension of nature, makes us all killers of other life?

 

[Thomas]

God created human beings in the beginning of the first phase of creation (Kruta Yuga), in which all the human beings were just following the instructions of God like the robots following the programme fed in to the machine heads. In such stage, there is no freedom of soul.

From a Scriptural point of view, this is not quite right. Humans were created in the Divine likeness and image (cf Genesis 1:26) from the moment of creation. That is what 'human' is.

Genesis 2:19: "And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." (emphasis mine)
Here we see Adam possesses a rational capacity, the freedom to be creative, to think, contemplate, make choices. The primordial humanity was not without reason. They were not simply 'robots'. 'To see what he would call them' indicates Adam is free to make his decisions.

All the instructions from God were always exceptionally good and there is no bad information. There is no need of knowing good and bad when the brain is totally surrendered to God

Well there is, because God warns them about the fruit of the tree they must not eat. They knew right/wrong.

The concept of God here is that a totally surrendered soul need not have the knowledge of good and bad when the soul is simply following the word of God without any trace of freedom.

But the soul does possess freedom – that's the point. It's also wrong as a statement. For a soul to surrender it must have self-knowledge of what it is doing. God does not desire the surrender of His creation.

The tree of knowledge of good and bad was created by God since the time has come to give freedom to the soul.

I'd say good and evil are inescapably an aspect of a finite, contingent cosmos in which humanity found itself. It is part of the nature of creation prior to man and woman.

God created 'free' creatures, not because He wants robots, but because He can, and He wills creatures who are endowed with free will as He is, to choose. What God 'wants' (in the sense that God wants for nothing) are creatures who love each other and thereby express His love for His creation. You can't have love without freedom. True surrender is freedom to open up and give oneself entirely to something of one's own choosing.

... the additional problem is the pollution of scripture ...

Ah, you mean my Scripture does not quite fit your interpretation, so mine must be polluted ...

Satan appeared as sweet and good like the insertion in the divine scripture. They followed the advice of Satan as the word of God due to incapability in the analysis.

Nope. Three things:

1: There is no hard evidence that the serpent and satan are one and the same. That occurs much later.
2: There are correspondences between the serpent in the Genesis story, and the serpent in the earlier Epic of Gilgamesh. In both cases the serpent robs the human of immortality.
3: That God would hold creatures culpable for an act they could not understand makes God 'bad'. Therefore, as God wills the good only, we can safely assume that God made His instructions clear, and that the Primordial Couple were in no doubt.

 

[dattaswami2]

However this wasn't really my meaning. I was posting in the sense of Christian original sin. It is said that a baby is born without sin, but even a baby needs to breathe and drink, and these actions involve killing other forms of life, although agreed not higher forms of intelligent life. But that is why Jains wear a mask and carry a broom, to avoid breathing in a gnat or stepping on a beetle? Just being born into this dimension of nature, makes us all killers of other life?

Original sin means inherent sin. The sinful nature of the soul is called as the original sin. The soul is not a sinner inherently, but becomes sinner due to associated sinful qualities. Even the first couple of human race (call it Adam and Eve or Manu and Śatarūpa) exhibited sin even in full freedom. But, the sin of one soul does not come to another soul. There are good and bad souls.

Angels are always good and demons are always bad. We, the middle human beings are mixtures of both good and bad. All the souls are given full free will. But, one soul does good deeds and other soul does bad deeds. The same soul does good deeds in one time and does bad deeds in another time. This means that every human soul is a mixture of good and bad. Some souls controlled bad with firm effort and some other souls couldn’t control. Good souls are those which succeeded in controlling bad.

Even such good souls have bad, which was controlled by them. Control means existence of controlled item. Good souls or angels always control their bad. Bad souls or demons can never control their bad. Human souls control their bad sometimes and can’t control their bad in other times. Instead of breaking our heads on the original sin, it is better to put effort in controlling our bad so that we can join the category of angels. Pasting already pasted material (Piṣṭa peṣaṇam) is useless.

 

[dattaswami2]

From a Scriptural point of view, this is not quite right. Humans were created in the Divine likeness and image (cf Genesis 1:26) from the moment of creation. That is what 'human' is.
.....

Ah, you mean my Scripture does not quite fit your interpretation, so mine must be polluted ...


Nope. Three things:

1: There is no hard evidence that the serpent and satan are one and the same. That occurs much later.
2: There are correspondences between the serpent in the Genesis story, and the serpent in the earlier Epic of Gilgamesh. In both cases the serpent robs the human of immortality.
3: That God would hold creatures culpable for an act they could not understand makes God 'bad'. Therefore, as God wills the good only, we can safely assume that God made His instructions clear, and that the Primordial Couple were in no doubt.

You shall not take the story in the bible in literal sense. The term ‘original sin’ is introduced in the Christianity, because Christianity do not believe in rebirth and say that this is our only birth after this hell or heaven. This is the belief. This belief is ok, due to this people do tremendous spiritual effort to please God and avoid sins and they work for God and His mission very sincerely. Due to this God is pleased. However let us analyze this ‘original sin’ concept.
According to this belief, they say that the sins of Adam and Eve are transmitted to all the humanity so that all are born with some contribution of sins of Adam and eve. Actually this is a lie, however this lie is not a lie at all, because this lie is told for a good purpose so that people will turn towards God and will try live a balanced life devoid of sin by developing on God.

The actual process taking place is like this. God has created human beings in the initial time of creation so that they were obeying God in full like a robot and they were getting always happiness. But this continuous happiness bored them and they aspired for a change. God then gave them full freedom and free will and told them that whatever action they do either good or bad the corresponding results they get. Now due to this freedom people started doing both good and bad deeds. Now the results of both good and bad deeds were created which is happiness and misery. Now God arranged the happy scenes and misery in alternating fashion so that souls enjoy it alternatively and got entertainment.

If summer alone is there, we get bored and we will aspire for winter. If we eat sweets continuously then we get bored and we will aspire for chilly dish.
When a soul is born in this world all the bad results were diminished to a size of seed by punishments in hell. This seed or impression of bad quality is a very minute magnitude is called ‘original’ sin. Remember here that the original sin of a person is due to his or her own previous bad deeds only and not due to adam or eve. Now the child look very innocent when it is born in this world but he is having the remains of bad quality in him which is in a dormant state. The punishment in hell do not wipe out this quality completely. But it is reduced in magnitude to a low value in hell.

Now this person when grow up due to the circumstances and other factors he repeats the same bad deeds due to free will and accumulate bad results part of which will be suffered here remaining will be be dealt in hell. Similarly if he is doing good deeds part of the good deed’s result he will enjoy here and remaining in the heaven. When the results of his actions done on the earth is exhausted in the upperworld in hell and heaven, the soul falls back again to this world. Again the soul repeats the same actions and goes to hell and heaven and comes back. This cycle repeats again and again. But there is no assurance that one will get a human birth here. This human life is very very precious and rare. It shall be used for pleasing God by serving Him in His mission of divine knowledge propagation when God comes to this world in human form.

There is only one way to get out of this cycle of deeds, which is to learn divine knowledge from God in human form and get reformed by not repeating sins and practicing the divine knowledge in one’s life. God comes to this world in human form to preach and uplift us. He is called Human incarnation of God. One shall meet the present human incarnation and learn divine knowledge from Him. God comes to this world for our sake only so that we can see Him, touch Him and co-live with HIm and can clarify all our spiritual doubts from Him directly.

If God speaks directly [without the medium of a human body], people will get tension due to excitement by seeing His superpower. Then knowledge will not be grasped. To keep them in the ground state [unexcited], God speaks through a human body and people are able to approach Him without tension, thinking that the human body is speaking. If God enters only the inert body, it is as good as entering an inert statue. Speaking through a statue will again raise tension. When God enters the human body He needs the Jeevatman (soul possessing a body =humna being) also, which possesses all the qualities for His play. God need not use His special power for a work, when it can be done by the medium itself.

There is no need of any effort to develop true love for God. True love is spontaneous and it has its own natural power and strength. Do you make any effort to improve your true love for your children? As you attain more and more spiritual knowledge, the true attraction to God increases day by day. Knowledge alone produces that attraction. Knowledge of God means the details about the personality of God. It is the knowledge related to His divine qualities. As you come to know more and more details about Mumbai city, you will develop more and more attraction to go to Mumbai city. Once the force of attraction increases due to the increased study of spiritual knowledge, the force for implementing it in practice also simultaneously develops. Through such practical devotion, you will attain the divine grace of God. Hence, spiritual knowledge is the first and final step. Therefore, Sa?kara said that knowledge alone gives you the divine fruit (Jñanadevatu kaivalyam). Once the first step, which is the attainment of complete true spiritual knowledge, is completed, the other two steps, which are the attainment of devotion and the attainment of practice follow as spontaneous consequences. No additional effort is needed for these last two steps.

A true devotee is identified by his or her theoretical love for God followed by practical love shown towards God in the form of service and sacrifice, without the aspiration for any fruit in return from God.The attachment to God should come first and the detachment from the world should come next as a spontaneous consequence. If you are worried about the worldly issue, you have not yet been relieved from the trap of worldly bonds, which means that your bond with God is not strong at all.

Some politicians say that ordinary human beings are their gods. This is wrong, and such an idea does not give the highest value to God. The people who give more importance to other people, will never go to Brahma Loka (God’s world). They might at the most reach heaven (Svarga Loka). Once the merit earned by them gets exhausted, they will come back to earth. They serve the public only in order to get appreciation from the public. They do not think about God and hence God also does not care about them. God cares about those who worship Him sincerely. In fact, He tests each devotee who runs after Him. God is not so cheap as to go after someone who does not even think about Him.

Study about the personality of God. It will create attraction in your mind towards Him in a natural way, without the aspiration for any fruit in return. Spiritual knowledge is nothing but the study of the personality of God for this very purpose. Of course, apart from studying the personality of God, you must have knowledge about yourself that you are not God already. You should also have knowledge about the true path to attain the love of God. For that, you must possess true love for God. This love for God is theoretical devotion. It must be proved to be true by practical devotion consisting of service and sacrifice done without the aspiration for any fruit in return. One’s love for God must be true and aspiration-free just like the love of parents towards their children.

You should help the poor, not out of love for the poor, but to please the Lord. You should help the poor out of the love for God. The Divine Father will be happy to see you helping your poor brothers and sisters. The entire emotion of love should only be directed towards God and not even a trace of it should be shared with other souls. That is called eka bhakti. Anjaneya Swami (Hanuman) loves Lord Rama alone. Radha loved Lord K???a alone. If you start loving the poor, you will be born as a beggar in your next birth, just as Ja?abharata was reborn as a deer. You must do good deeds with an intention to please God.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Reply removed at user's own request

 

[Thomas]

You shall not take the story in the bible in literal sense.

I don't, I read it under the Four Senses of Scripture – literal, moral, analogical and eschatalogical.

The term ‘original sin’ is introduced in the Christianity, because Christianity do not believe in rebirth and say that this is our only birth after this hell or heaven.

Well, I'd say that's a rather literal interpretation.

The idea of 'original sin' is the belief that all humanity is subject to the result of the Fall of Adam and Eve. Another way to put it is, prior to the Fall, humanity existed in a state of union with God. Because of an act of disobedience, that 'state of grace' was withdrawn. If you want a more complete explanation of the doctrine, I can provide.

As for reincarnation, it is not a central belief of Judaism, nor Christianity. The focus of Christianity is this life: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment." (hebrews 9:27). As the Dalai Lama said, this is a very powerful teaching, and should not be dismissed.

According to this belief, they say that the sins of Adam and Eve are transmitted to all the humanity so that all are born with some contribution of sins of Adam and eve. Actually this is a lie, however this lie is not a lie at all, because this lie is told for a good purpose so that people will turn towards God and will try live a balanced life devoid of sin by developing on God.

No, you're quite mistaken.

I might argue the Catholic interpretation, at first glance, seems to depend on an error of interpretation. But the Orthodox doctrine is somewhat different, so let me present that – The Greek term is 'ancestral sin' and teaches that Adam’s sin carried death to all creation, and that although our sin is evidence to this death, it is not Adam’s specific transgression that we have inherited, so there's your mistake.

The actual process taking place is like this...

I disagree. I think this is somewhat naive.

If summer alone is there, we get bored and we will aspire for winter. If we eat sweets continuously then we get bored and we will aspire for chilly dish.

No, this is a logical error. If we are content, we do not aspire for suffering. If we love, we do not aspire to hate.

Remember here that the original sin of a person is due to his or her own previous bad deeds...

I do not believe in the continual reincarnation of the human person, I think it's a category error. I also think that for a person to be born into a life of suffering to pay for some sin of which they have no knowledge is unjust. Punishing person B does not expiate the sin of Person A.

 

[dattaswami2]

As for reincarnation, it is not a central belief of Judaism, nor Christianity. The focus of Christianity is this life: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment." (hebrews 9:27). As the Dalai Lama said, this is a very powerful teaching, and should not be dismissed.


I do not believe in the continual reincarnation of the human person, I think it's a category error. I also think that for a person to be born into a life of suffering to pay for some sin of which they have no knowledge is unjust. Punishing person B does not expiate the sin of Person A.

Hinduism believes in rebirth of the soul. Christianity and Islam do not believe in rebirth. Thus, both these are extreme contradicting concepts without the Aristotle’s middle golden path. This means that there are three possibilities: 1) Every soul has rebirth, 2) Every soul has no rebirth, 3) Some souls have rebirth and some souls do no have rebirth. The third possibility is the actual fact that correlates all the three religions. Everything depends upon the judgment of God regarding any soul to sanction human rebirth.

This judgment depends upon the merits and defects of a soul that decide the probability in favor of uplift of the soul. A soul may have the possibility of spiritual uplift if one more or even some more rebirths are allotted. Such soul will be given the chance of rebirth for doing further spiritual effort. Some soul may be full of defects and there may be no chance of spiritual uplift even if one more rebirth is sanctioned. Such condemned soul will not have rebirth and will be thrown into hell forever. Sometimes, depending upon the case of the soul, it may be given rebirth to be born in the birds and animals or even trees or even inert stones. Birds and animals are engaged in the activities of securing food for that specific time only.

Such births are given to the human souls having unlimited ambition of earning and storing wealth. Such rebirth as bird or animal brings limitation to the ambition in the case of the soul. After some births as birds and animal, the ambition may be reduced in earning and storing the wealth. Such soul will be brought to the human birth again in which the soul is born with least ambition for earning and storing. Some soul may have the defect of not donating the stored wealth for the sake of God. Such defect is removed when the soul is born as a tree.

The stored food as fruits by the tree is in the service of human beings only. By the long period of life of a tree, the soul will develop the quality of charity of stored wealth and thus, it can be brought to human rebirth. Some soul may have very intensive ambition and such soul is given the birth of an inert stone so that the intensive negative quality comes to zero during the long deep sleep of the life of stone. Then, again the soul may be brought to the human birth from the birth of a stone. Let us take the example of Ahalya, the wife of Sage Gautama. She was raped by Indra, the King of Heaven, who came in disguise appearing as Sage Gautama.

Several people think that Ahalya was cheated by Indra and the curse given by Sage Gautama to her to become a stone is not justified. This version is not correct. Ahalya identified Indra before meeting with him (Devarajam tu vijnaaya…Ramayana). She was not cheated since she identified Indra, who came in disguise. Such intensive negative quality of passion for illegal sex was punished by Sage Gautama. For a long time she remained as a stone, which is equal to deep sleep. During such long period, the negative quality is subsided. Then God as Rama gave her the rebirth as human being. Since the soul became pure, she was accepted by Sage Gautama again.

Jesus also accepted the concept of rebirth in some special cases and this point was suppressed! (The Father of heaven or Lord Datta present in Jesus is also existing in this Datta Swami and hence, Lord Datta knows the fact. There may be defect in recording or this point might have been suppressed in the revised scripture.) If you see the above statement of Prophet Mohammed, infinite number of rebirths for the pure soul in the service of God (in the service of Allah) are stated.This means that the soul involved in the divine service will be taking rebirths forever in order to assist God in propagating the divine knowledge. For this purpose, even God is taking rebirths again and again.

The servant of God involved in the divine service always accompanies the God through several human births as long as God wishes. Some people think that cancellation of the rebirth in this world is salvation! This is climax of ignorance. When God Himself is taking rebirths for the benefit of humanity (Sambhavaami yuge yuge, janma karmacha Me divyam… Gita), is the soul greater than God to avoid rebirth? Cancellation of rebirth means only avoiding the rebirth as worldly bonded soul again without involving in the divine service. It does not mean cancellation of rebirth as servant of God to assist Him in the divine service. All this explanation reveals the hidden truth in the background clearly in elaborated way so that we can understand the truth and avoid inter-religious conflicts regarding the spiritual truth, which is the same in every religion. If you say that even God cannot sanction rebirth to a soul, God’s omnipotence becomes false!

Telling that there is no rebirth and this birth alone is final shows a practical merit. If you say that if a student fails in the year end March-examination, such student will not have opportunity to appear for the examination again in September, the student will be very careful in studies to pass the examination in March itself. Similarly, if rebirth is denied, the soul will be very careful for the spiritual path since there is no chance of rebirth to continue the spiritual effort. The concept of rebirth has the main defect that the soul feels relaxed and is not serious about spiritual progress in this birth since there are continuous opportunities in future to finish the effort. The decision of rebirth is in the hands of God and hence the soul should better think that there is no chance of rebirth (at least human birth) again to continue the effort. Based on this concept of absence of rebirth, if the soul puts hectic efforts in spiritual path and by chance (which is beyond the capacity of human being) the spiritual progress is not completed, God will certainly consider the soul for human rebirth. The soul sleeping leisurely thinking that human rebirth is a continuous facility, God will not grant the human rebirth to such a lazy soul.

In fact, God says in the Gita (nitya jaatam…) that every day is a rebirth after the deep sleep (death). The soul should not postpone the spiritual effort to the old age because any day untimely death may swallow the soul. Hence, every soul should think that the present day is the last birth for spiritual effort to please God.

 

[dattaswami2]

I don't, I read it under the Four Senses of Scripture – literal, moral, analogical and eschatalogical.


A couple of issues with the terminology. If Adam & eve were the first 'reincarnated' beings then that would mean they had physically existed before, which is not the case according to Abrahamic scriptures. Perhaps you meant the first 'Incarnated' beings?

Why in Bible rebirth is not mentioned? The concept of rebirth has both positive and negative sides. If rebirth is accepted for every soul infinitely, the disadvantage is that every soul becomes lazy in the spiritual path postponing the spiritual effort to old age and the old man postpones to the next birth! In view of this negative disadvantage of humanity, the honourable scholars of Christianity (called as Fathers) suppressed this point in view of the welfare of humanity only and not with any other ill intention. Such suppression is good for the spiritual aspirants.

On the other hand, if you make it as a rule that no soul can have the opportunity for rebirth, it results in the lack of power of omnipotent God to sanction rebirth to even a deserving soul, which is unable to complete the effort in this birth, in spite of utmost sincerity. This results in saying that God is not omnipotent since He cannot change the rule of inevitable absence of rebirth.

As the middle golden path of Aristotle, the truth is that God is omnipotent to sanction rebirth to a deserving soul as a special case to continue and complete its spiritual effort. By this, you cannot also generalize that every soul gets the opportunity of rebirth infinitely. Both extremities are wrong. In Hinduism, rebirth to every soul infinitely is spoken, which is wrong. In Christianity and Islam, “no rebirth to any soul and even the omnipotent God cannot sanction rebirth to any deserving soul also” is spoken and this is also wrong. Jesus told the truth that exists between these two extremities, which is the ultimate truth and also the real heart of the spiritual knowledge of Hinduism, Christianity and Islam.

 

[Thomas]

Hinduism believes in rebirth of the soul.

OK. As I say, the Abrahamics do not believe in the same way Hindus do.

Thus, both these are extreme contradicting concepts without the Aristotle’s middle golden path.

You might be conflicted. We are not.

A soul may have the possibility of spiritual uplift if one more or even some more rebirths are allotted.

Actually I hold to the more metaphysical/speculative belief that the human state is a special 'one-time' occurrence. I think some Hindu and Buddhist schools hold to that belief.

People talk about rebirth in succession – one after the other. I do not hear talk of simultaneity. Being, and Selfhood, realises Itself in and through all possibility. It does so in time and space, but it does so outside the constrictions that apply to this particular mode of manifestation.

To assume that this world is the only world within which being can realise itself is a narrow view, and this is why the emphasis on successive lives.

Have you heard of multiverse theory – that for every decision, every act, a parallel universe exists where an alternative path plays out. This is somewhat akin to the idea of simultaneity. It's quite complex, I can simplify if it's of interest.

Jesus also accepted the concept of rebirth in some special cases and this point was suppressed!

Evidence? (And citing your guru is not sufficient evidence.) Suppressed when, and by whom?

 

[RJM]

Evidence? (And citing your guru is not sufficient evidence.)

HE is the guru. @dattaswami2 IS the human incarnation of God

 

[dattaswami2]

OK. As I say, the Abrahamics do not believe in the same way Hindus do.


People talk about rebirth in succession – one after the other. I do not hear talk of simultaneity. Being, and Selfhood, realises Itself in and through all possibility. It does so in time and space, but it does so outside the constrictions that apply to this particular mode of manifestation.

We must also analyse the external atmosphere in which old people have passed their lives. The external atmosphere is very very important for the development of spiritual interest in any soul. I will concentrate the old people of the Hindu religion. The first point is that Hindus believe that the soul will get plenty of rebirths.

This is true, but the problem is that every rebirth need not be a human rebirth. Hinduism says that human rebirth is very rare (Jantūnāṃ nara-janma durlabhamidam—Śaṅkara). Other religions outright say that human rebirth is impossible and that this human birth is the final chance given to the soul.

But Hindus are under the misunderstanding that they will get numerous human rebirths. As a result, you can find some difference between old Hindus and the old people of other religions, regarding their seriousness about the spiritual path. Old Hindu people are much less serious about their spiritual effort as compared to the old people of other religions.

The old Hindu people must be told that rebirth is not at all the point, but that getting a human rebirth is the point. The omniscient God gives human rebirth to the soul, in which there is some real hope of reformation. One must know that continuous rebirths of a soul as animals, insects or worms is the continuation of hell in this world. Hell is Naraka Loka, which is an upper sub-world of the Bhu Loka.

The material world we live in is the Martya Loka, which is the lowest sub-world of the Bhu Loka. Above the Bhu Loka there are several heavenly worlds and below the Bhu Loka there are several lower-worlds. The soul not only faces the punishment of its bad deeds in hell (Naraka Loka), but also in this material world (Martya Loka), in the form of rebirth as animals and insects.

It is nothing but the continuation of hell in this world, which happens in the cases of the majority of souls. The possibility of getting a human rebirth is thus, negligible. This concept agrees with the concept of other religions which say that human rebirth is not possible and that a sinner remains in hell forever. Hence, the concept that present human birth should be considered to be the last human birth, is one and the same in all religions.

 

[Longfellow]

We must also analyse the external atmosphere in which old people have passed their lives. The external atmosphere is very very important for the development of spiritual interest in any soul. I will concentrate the old people of the Hindu religion. The first point is that Hindus believe that the soul will get plenty of rebirths.

This is true, but the problem is that every rebirth need not be a human rebirth. Hinduism says that human rebirth is very rare (Jantūnāṃ nara-janma durlabhamidam—Śaṅkara). Other religions outright say that human rebirth is impossible and that this human birth is the final chance given to the soul.

But Hindus are under the misunderstanding that they will get numerous human rebirths. As a result, you can find some difference between old Hindus and the old people of other religions, regarding their seriousness about the spiritual path. Old Hindu people are much less serious about their spiritual effort as compared to the old people of other religions.

The old Hindu people must be told that rebirth is not at all the point, but that getting a human rebirth is the point. The omniscient God gives human rebirth to the soul, in which there is some real hope of reformation. One must know that continuous rebirths of a soul as animals, insects or worms is the continuation of hell in this world. Hell is Naraka Loka, which is an upper sub-world of the Bhu Loka.

The material world we live in is the Martya Loka, which is the lowest sub-world of the Bhu Loka. Above the Bhu Loka there are several heavenly worlds and below the Bhu Loka there are several lower-worlds. The soul not only faces the punishment of its bad deeds in hell (Naraka Loka), but also in this material world (Martya Loka), in the form of rebirth as animals and insects.

It is nothing but the continuation of hell in this world, which happens in the cases of the majority of souls. The possibility of getting a human rebirth is thus, negligible. This concept agrees with the concept of other religions which say that human rebirth is not possible and that a sinner remains in hell forever. Hence, the concept that present human birth should be considered to be the last human birth, is one and the same in all religions.

Source: Spiritual Progress Of Senior Citizens.. (speakingtree.in)

 

[dattaswami2]

Source: Spiritual Progress Of Senior Citizens.. (speakingtree.in)

Sir , the content of reply is important which is my own work only. On the content of reply if we concentrate then we can exchange many spiritual ideas through discussions

 

[Thomas]

I will concentrate the old people of the Hindu religion.

OK. Then please take your copy-and-paste to the Hindu Board, it has no relevance here.

 

[dattaswami2]

OK. Then please take your copy-and-paste to the Hindu Board, it has no relevance here.

My aim is to bring unity to all the religions. There is only one God and all the religions leads to the same God like all the roads leads to the same city center. Hence i cannot leave other religions also. To me all are equal.

 

[Thomas]

My aim is to bring unity to all the religions...

Really, it's not. You seem to be saying where my religion disagrees with yours, mine is wrong.

This is not unity, this is divisive.

If you want an authentic unity, check out Bede Griffiths.

Or, read "Christianity and the Doctrine of Non-Dualism", an anonymous work by 'a Monk of the West':
"The author of this slender but profound book ... The word advaita, which designates Vedantic non-dualism ... but the doctrine itself is by no means exclusively Hindu, being present in Buddhism, Islam, Taoism, and Judaism.

"The great merit of this work ... shows that ... there is no incompatibility between orthodox Christian doctrine and the strictest understanding of non-dualism in the Advaita Vedanta.

"With a subtle care for detail, the author clarifies the relationship between the hypostatic union embodied in the person of Christ and the Supreme Identity of Atma and Brahma ... The radical disparity that seemingly exists between the phrase 'I am Brahma' and the sacred formula of the Eucharistic consecration 'This is my Body' melts away, allowing these separate worlds to shed new meaning on each other."
(From the back cover)

Another author worth reading which evidences insights to both Christian Doctrine and Advaita Vedanta is Fr Henri Le Saux, a Benedictine monk who spent the last decades of his life in India: Saccidananda: A Christian Approach to Advaitic Experience and The Further Shore published under Le Saux's adopted name, Swami Abhishiktananda.

There you will find common ground, and there is the path to unity.

 

[The Anointed]

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Jubilees 4: 30; And he (ADAM) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: ’On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.’ For this reason, he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.

The seventh day is the day of the Lord, the great Sabbath of one thousand years, which day is the reality of which the weekly Sabbath is but a shadow, (Colossians 2: 16-17.) it is the day that the Lord God our saviour has fixed (See Acts 17: 31.) in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a ‘MAN’ he has ‘CHOSEN.’ He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that ‘MAN’ from death.

It is the Lord’s Day in which Jesus shall rule the world for a thousand years..

 

[Faithfulservant]

I can't subscribe to this belief for a few reasons. It was written in Hebrews that man is appointed to die once and then the judgement. If there was a reincarnation how would salvation be necessary as souls would be recycled? Adam was not Jesus as pre incarnate Jesus walked with Adam in the garden. Too many things to comment and I find that posting via my phone is completely unsatisfactory!

 

[The Anointed]

I can't subscribe to this belief for a few reasons. It was written in Hebrews that man is appointed to die once and then the judgement. If there was a reincarnation how would salvation be necessary as souls would be recycled? Adam was not Jesus as pre incarnate Jesus walked with Adam in the garden. Too many things to comment and I find that posting via my phone is completely unsatisfactory!

You are correct in saying that it is written in Hebrews that man is appointed once to die then go off into judgement. But I can find nowhere in the scriptures where it is written that the man Jesus walked with Adam in the garden.

But unlike yourself, I do subscribe to this belief. The scriptures equate the ‘MIND’ with the ‘SPIRIT’, in one place it is said, “You must love God with all your heart, with all your MIND, and with all your soul:” In another place it is said, “You must love God with all your body, with all your SPIRIT and with all your soul.”

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is created from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, animating all life within the universe, It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE, that all information or SPIRIT, is gathered.

YOU,” as a human being, are Body, Soul and Spirit, but “YOU” the invisible mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme personality of godhead within that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and pre-human has been gathered in its evolution to become ‘WHO YOU ARE’, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh to the inner most sanctuary of its temporary earthly tabernacle or tent, which is your physical body, as it awaits the creation of its glorious temple of incorruptible Light. [THE SON OF MAN]

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and “YOU” who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality or “CONTROLLING GODHEAD” to that body.

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind The veil,
I lifted up my hands to find A lamp amid the Darkness;
and I heard, As from Without----
“The Me within Thee is blind.”----- By Omar Khayyam.

There are two deaths, the first death is that of the physical body, which is the womb in which God’s children develop, for flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom. And the Second death which is that of the mind which is divided from God’s immortal soul, which rejected soul is cast back into the refining fires of physical life again, where it will be given a new body in which to develop a new spirit/mind.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body of “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU, the mind or spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force or soul, [The collective consciousness of all that exists] from which it will be resurrected in this, or the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course, the spirit that is “YOU” is unfit to inherit everlasting life and is then divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul. Hebrews 4: 12.---------“For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit.”

THE immortal spiritless soul is then cast back into the refining fires of the six physical cycles of endless rebirths, into the physical life once again where it is given a new body or new bodies in which to develop a new mind/spirit.

Peace my friend.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Ok. God bless you.