Modalism + Partialism = Trinitarianism?

[Ella S.]

I'm not letting Trinitarianism beat me into just admitting that it's impossible, so I've come up with a potential explanation for it.

Modalism is the belief that the 3 persons of God are separate states of God, sort of how water is liquid at the bottom of the sea, ice near the surface of the poles, and gaseous vapor in the atmosphere.

Partialism is the belief that the 3 persons of God are each individual parts of the Godhead which, together, make God.

According to Agrippa's Occult Philosophy, there are layers to our reality, we can call them "planes" although he didn't use this term. He actually lists four planes; celestial, intelligent, terrestrial, and infernal, corresponding to the realm of archangels, angels, fallen creation, and demons, respectively.

For the sake of comparison, we can just focus on the first three, which are elsewhere seen as the layers of the Trinity. Essentially, we have God the Father associated with the top plane, the Holy Spirit as the intermediary, and God the Son as its manifestation in the terrestrial realm.

If we see "God" as an entity that exists on all 3 levels, we can see each of the 3 persons as corresponding to God's manifestation in each realm, thus we have a form of Modalism.

However, if each lower plane is merely an imperfect reflection of the higher one, as it is often seen in Platonism, then there really isn't 3 separate modes of being but 1 Godhead in 3 persons. Jesus, therefore, isn't just part of God but is wholly God as a reflection of God cast on the mirror of the terrestrial realm.

The only thing that's really "divided," then, is the world itself which, in its fallen state, has grown more distant from God. Yet, at the same time, God's light continues to reflect in this world, making God still technically omnipresent.

I don't know how well this works but it's the best explanation of the Trinity that I can come up with. It's essentially God looking in a three-part mirror.

 

[Ella S.]

In computing terms, God is the parent function and the Father, the Holy Spirit, and the Son would be treated as child functions

 

[wil]

Interesting contemplation.

I see G!d as our elusive theory of everything (TOE) the all encompassing underlying principle, the formula/law/quantum physics which allows all come into being. The Christ is that portion of matter in the form of Jesus that represents this manifestation as man. (Rocks represent rocks, water water etc but all are physical manifestations of the TOE). The Holy spirit is the TOE animated, that There are holes in my thinking...as their.should be, lol


From Unity Metaphysics...

"Here are the Scripture symbols compared with modern metaphysical terms:

• God-Christ-man.
• Mind-idea-manitestation,
• Father-Son-Holy Spirit.
• Thinker-thought-action.
• Spirit-soul-body."

https://www.truthunity.net/books/unity-metaphysics-tan-book1-03-the-trinity

 

[Thomas]

I'm not letting Trinitarianism beat me into just admitting that it's impossible, so I've come up with a potential explanation for it.

Good for you!

I don't know how well this works but it's the best explanation of the Trinity that I can come up with. It's essentially God looking in a three-part mirror.

Works for me. As we understand it, any explanation of the Trinity is always an analogy, not the thing itself ... analogy is as close as we can get intellectually.

 

[Ella S.]

Works for me. As we understand it, any explanation of the Trinity is always an analogy, not the thing itself ... analogy is as close as we can get intellectually.

In a sense, this is true for many things

 

[powessy]

This problem is very weird to me. If I were to place all things inside of a bag, the bag and all the things inside the bag are not god, this would be the holly spirit. God would be what the bag is inside of, I would perhaps call this nothing. There are no things outside of god, they are inside him but not him.

There exists what I refer to as the law of minds. This simple equation is as follows, you can become anything inside yourself to figure it out. Under this assumption there is not one thing that can figure god out meaning that he is himself only and there is nothing outside of him. If we could figure him out he would not be god, and we would not need to ask these questions. I refer to god in this sense as, yourself is never yourself, or me cannot become me but me can become every me inside of me. The last part just means me becomes me and not god, if everything that exists has a me then me would represent all these things. The other part is that me must equal yourself. You can then see the three parts as me, yourself and god.

Now I do not think that the trinity I describe above is the Bible’s trinity. I do however believe that the trinity of the Bible describes a whole different problem all together. In my trinity nothing equals god he is himself only. Me equals Holy Spirit but the holy spirt becomes me to figure itself out as one mind, or everything inside itself to become something here.

In the Bible’s trinity the father, me and the Holy Ghost all equal each other but are not each other. I also see this as a trick or trickster a way to rip yourself apart. This method of ripping yourself apart was to keep minds from figuring things out. This method also allows you to find time inside of nothing here. In life we will experience five metamorphosis (1,2,3,4,5) and should end equaling (5) only as yourself only. If we change this to (((1,2,3)5)4) then we get three minds 123 = son, 5 = father, 4 = Holy Spirit. Each aspect of self is then separate and finds time on different timelines but inside each other. This makes sense to me as the Bible’s trinity. I don’t know enough about the Bible but it ponder the notion that satan was 5, and father was 4. Father could figure Satan out but satan could not figure father out. This just means that 4 stopped figuring himself out and got badly done.

I have so many thoughts on this problem, and These thoughts here are only my two cents worth.

powessy

 

[Thomas]

Interesting, powessy ...

Now I do not think that the trinity I describe above is the Bible’s trinity.

No.

Me equals Holy Spirit but the holy spirt becomes me to figure itself out ...

Here we diverge. The Holy Spirit is not deficient in regards to self-knowing.

There is the Augustinian analogy of the Trinity in psychological terms as Memory-Intellect-Will (one mind, three operations).

I also see this as a trick or trickster a way to rip yourself apart.

You've lost me here, it all gets a bit complex ...

 

[powessy]

Interesting, powessy ...


No.


Here we diverge. The Holy Spirit is not deficient in regards to self-knowing.

There is the Augustinian analogy of the Trinity in psychological terms as Memory-Intellect-Will (one mind, three operations).


You've lost me here, it all gets a bit complex ...

They have many expressions for the word “yourself”, this is the hardest to explain. Since we also have minds that have “yourselves” and time leftover has “yourselves” and time forward has “yourselves” and yourself is yourself, explaining this gets really complicated.

If I was to explain yourself(Thomas) I would say you are trillions of cells becoming yourself here. Inside of you, you have many minds that are not you also but are part of you like mitochondria and other bacteria, they also have “yourselves”. Bacteria can be expressed as “ yourself isn’t yourself”, a whole other problem.

Now every “yourself” that is (Thomas) has a “me” every single cell is a “me”, part of “me”. Every single cell inside of Thomas is also a “himself” or he is “himself”. You see the three pieces so far, (yourself, me, and himself).

When your cells here (on earth) dies it is part of something here and will become dust or a dead shell of yourself. What then happens to the energy(me) of this cell? The me enters into nothing here or the veil.

note: you have something here “earth 1”, nothing here “veil”, and then something there “earth 2”. We bring time across the veil to become something there “earth 2”. Understand we bring time across to make this world become itself again all the time, so it never becomes nothing again.

As the “me” cell and the memory of the cell crosses into nothing here”veil” it will attach to a yourself there inside the veil and start to become itself. This “yourself” is formed from minds inside the veil. These little minds becoming yourselves will attach to other pieces of yourselves to form something like yourselves trying to become yourself. Basically minds try to put you together over your life time. Every me inside me trying to figure me out needs to become me, this in essence forms “yourself”.

I find myself trying to explain this knowing this is very confusing, so to the chase. Here is the big problem. In order to get to “ earth 2” you have to know everything about yourself “ the saying is, you have to know everything about everything here to become something there”. The next thought is you can figure yourself out in life and in death.

What problems might one see here? If I am in the veil I can also teach you things about yourself, or the dead talk. This also means I can attack you from within the veil or teach you about time forward “future events”. You can now imagine how badly done this can become. This is why they teach you inside yourself, basically making sure you know nothing about the afterlife, and you cannot teach anyone anything at all.

As for the Bible’s trinity, the god worshiped in the Bible is not the true god. The actual trinity, god is not equal to anything here, for he is himself only, the one and only. The god described in the Bible was a himself that has a me, and a yourself, like us. This himself “Bible god” was a mind that had more time then anything else to figure himself out.

I don’t know if this helped or not, there are so many things you have to understand to know why this happened. I just know that the trinity the Bible teaches us is wrong.

powessy

 

[Thomas]

As for the Bible’s trinity, the god worshiped in the Bible is not the true god.

Why not?

The actual trinity, god is not equal to anything here, for he is himself only, the one and only.

Yes, we know that, the doctrine of the Trinity affirms that.

The god described in the Bible was a himself that has a me, and a yourself, like us.

I don't see that, nor do traditional Abrahamics say that ... ?

This himself “Bible god” was a mind that had more time then anything else to figure himself out.

Ah, then you're not talking about the God of Biblical theology. The God as the Abrahamics understand God is not deficient in any way – least of all in self-knowing – the idea that God creates to know Himself, or figure himself out, is a popular idea, but groundless, in Abrahamic metaphysics and theology.

God transcends time/space, so God does not learn or figure stuff out; there is no separation between God's Isness and God's self-knowing.

 

[Thomas]

A bit more on the Trinity –

In theology, there is the 'Immanent Trinity' and the 'Economic Trinity'. The way in which the doctrine is revealed, in Scripture, is called 'the economic Trinity', from the Greek, οἰκονομία, oikonomia ('management' or 'handling' of the household, and theologically, the way God relates to creation).

Through the oikonomia, God reveals the plan, or pattern, of salvation. As we believe it, the Trinity is revealed by Christ in the Gospels, however, we should not therefore assume as being all that is possible to be revealed. The oikonomia is the pattern of salvation, but that is in relation to ourselves, and does not exhaust the reality of the Trinity. What lies behind the economic Trinity is the Immanent Trinity, the Trinity in Itself, not the Trinity of Revelation (the oikonomia), but the Trinity in and to Itself. This knowledge transcends human comprehension, the Immanent Trinity is a mystery; it is enough to know it, it is not a necessity of salvation, whereas the oikonomia is.

Revelation by its nature is ordered to human comprehension, while simultaneously pointing to a greater than what is revealed. As the Pseudo-Dionysius expressed in his works, we should be cautious in making any designation concerning God, for God is beyond all such designations, and yet we can use and employ what God has revealed to us to talk about God, knowing they serve as the best way to have us think about God.

The oikonomia must not be confused for the absolute transcendent nature of the (Immanent) Trinity. The two trinities are ontologically one and the same, the distinction being that the Economic Trinity is a representation comprehensible to the senses of the Immanent Trinity which transcends our knowing and understanding. It's what our Buddhists friends call an upaya, an expediency. In short, there is more to God than meets the eye, and the mind.

 

[powessy]

Why not?


Yes, we know that, the doctrine of the Trinity affirms that.


I don't see that, nor do traditional Abrahamics say that ... ?


Ah, then you're not talking about the God of Biblical theology. The God as the Abrahamics understand God is not deficient in any way – least of all in self-knowing – the idea that God creates to know Himself, or figure himself out, is a popular idea, but groundless, in Abrahamic metaphysics and theology.

God transcends time/space, so God does not learn or figure stuff out; there is no separation between God's Isness and God's self-knowing.

Why not?
Because the trinity that the Bible teaches is describing a simple man and nothing else. I am only saying this about the trinity triangle just remove the god circle in the middle, and you have the symbol for man.




Every cell in your body is “me/son” everything you can become is “yourself/Holy Spirit” since you can only become a man and nothing else you are “himself/father”.

The image for god should be something like Holy Spirit = me, you and everything else. Draw a circle and write me/everything in the center of it, this is the Holy Spirit. Place that circle inside a much larger circle and write god in that circle. God is not ourselves he is himself we are just inside him. There is absolutely nothing outside of him.

God is limited, he is himself only, only one mind. If you drew the circle above with “me”inside of it you will see we are many more minds then he is to figure things out, he is only one mind, himself only. His circle would be only himself/or anything he wants to become.

If you understand the Holy Spirit you will see you are all one mind together to figure things out, you are literally connected to all the things in this universe that the Holy Spirit is.
It is everything inside itself to become itself.

Just wanted to add.

Imagine if you were the Holy Spirit, every cell in your body would be me(you) and god would be standing outside of you. Imagine being a single cell in your body trying to teach you something about itself how would it get your attention?

powessy

 

[Thomas]

Why not? ... Because the trinity that the Bible teaches is describing a simple man and nothing else. I am only saying this about the trinity triangle just remove the god circle in the middle, and you have the symbol for man.

I think we have different understandings of the Divine Nature.

I'll try to explain –
What you're presenting me is what we call – in Trinitarian studies – a psychological analogy. The idea of God as Mind.

But God transcends Mind.

Every cell in your body is “me/son” ...

a biological analogy.

since you can only become a man and nothing else you are “himself/father”.

Ditto.

The image for god should be something like Holy Spirit = me, you and everything else.

These symbols are universally applicable in all sorts of relations, and dependent, for example, on whether you're a priori understanding is a theism, a pantheism, or panentheism, and so on.

There is absolutely nothing outside of him.

Quite. The doctrine doesn't contradict this. (Acts 17:28 – "For in him we live, and move, and are" St Paul quoting the Cretan poet philosopher Epimenides.) Creatio ex nihilo, and all that.

God is limited, he is himself only, only one mind.

Here's the nub – it seems to me you're applying human categories to God (anthropomorphism) but in so doing, you're carrying human limitations over with them.

The Second Person of the Trinity is the Logos, which can be likened to 'mind', although the term implies more than that. However, in the Mind of God are all the Divine Ideas the logoi: "For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him. And he is before all, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17)

If you understand the Holy Spirit you will see you are all one mind together to figure things out, you are literally connected to all the things in this universe that the Holy Spirit is.
It is everything inside itself to become itself.

Again, not our God. Our God does not have to figure anything out. The God of the Abrahamics does not change; does not increase or decrease, suffers no limitation or deficiency.

The Bible opens with "In the beginning". The Hebrew is 'rē'šîṯ', better understood as 'In principle' rather than a temporal event. John understood this, opening his Gospel with En arche – In principle. The Vulgate begins both Genesis and John with the same words: "In principio".

In that sense, God the Father is what the Greeks call the arche anarchos – the Principle without principle (nothing contains, limits, orders, determines, etc.). The Son is the Principle – Logos – He is the Father's self-knowing. The Father Is Himself, the Son knows Himself.

The Holy Spirit is indeed the light, the light that illuminates the mind. (Neither Father nor Son needs that light to know or be Himself.)

I would say the mind of God is unknowable to human minds because, following the line of PseudoAreopagite, it is the 'Divine Darkness', it is unknowable because nothing therein presents itself as an object of knowledge. This is the Darkness on the Face of the Deep (Genesis 1:2) This is what our Asian friends mean when they say 'neti-neti' ('Not this, not that').

 

[powessy]

I think we have different understandings of the Divine Nature.

I'll try to explain –
What you're presenting me is what we call – in Trinitarian studies – a psychological analogy. The idea of God as Mind.

But God transcends Mind.


a biological analogy.


Ditto.


These symbols are universally applicable in all sorts of relations, and dependent, for example, on whether you're a priori understanding is a theism, a pantheism, or panentheism, and so on.


Quite. The doctrine doesn't contradict this. (Acts 17:28 – "For in him we live, and move, and are" St Paul quoting the Cretan poet philosopher Epimenides.) Creatio ex nihilo, and all that.


Here's the nub – it seems to me you're applying human categories to God (anthropomorphism) but in so doing, you're carrying human limitations over with them.

The Second Person of the Trinity is the Logos, which can be likened to 'mind', although the term implies more than that. However, in the Mind of God are all the Divine Ideas the logoi: "For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him. And he is before all, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17)


Again, not our God. Our God does not have to figure anything out. The God of the Abrahamics does not change; does not increase or decrease, suffers no limitation or deficiency.

The Bible opens with "In the beginning". The Hebrew is 'rē'šîṯ', better understood as 'In principle' rather than a temporal event. John understood this, opening his Gospel with En arche – In principle. The Vulgate begins both Genesis and John with the same words: "In principio".

In that sense, God the Father is what the Greeks call the arche anarchos – the Principle without principle (nothing contains, limits, orders, determines, etc.). The Son is the Principle – Logos – He is the Father's self-knowing. The Father Is Himself, the Son knows Himself.

The Holy Spirit is indeed the light, the light that illuminates the mind. (Neither Father nor Son needs that light to know or be Himself.)

I would say the mind of God is unknowable to human minds because, following the line of PseudoAreopagite, it is the 'Divine Darkness', it is unknowable because nothing therein presents itself as an object of knowledge. This is the Darkness on the Face of the Deep (Genesis 1:2) This is what our Asian friends mean when they say 'neti-neti' ('Not this, not that').

You are right god does not have a mind or a yourself as I have stated he is himself only.

Biological analogy? Interesting, take all life in the universe all living things that can become something, what thing would god become to become himself here? What thing not here, living or otherwise would he become since he can become anything inside himself? Everything inside himself is something that can be found in this universe or universes.

The early universes would have formed as distortions from time they would become something then nothing here then something again forming heat, forming ice and then become massive enough to become nothing here then something again. This motion is how all came to be. Once universes formed life that could figure things out he also could figure things out but these things did not last forever as he did. This was and is the problem, how to make everything become something all the time so it never becomes nothing again. As for the nub it is all about both spiritual afterlife and something here. As for deficiencies you are right he is time eternal but what a lonely place all by yourself.

What you cannot see or understand is this universe is only a small part of the vastness of his mind and so much of that time cannot become itself again until universes like this are formed through time. Each time a universe forms he has to figure it out again to allow all these minds to become something again, you see it is not about him it is about you and everything else. I have memories of the ancients and their quest to find the answers to these questions, how to keep everything from becoming nothing here, I often during this time find some of their thoughts as I search for more and more answers.

The trinity as the image I posted before is not god, he was just a man. I know how he came to be and how he deceived all of those that knew him. The true God never knew anything about this world had the Bible god not made the mistake of becoming himself here. Do you believe that the true god that could become anything and figure anything out, come to this world to become himself here.

Everything formed through time not from dust or seven days of whatever. I think way to many people try to create an ever growing idea of a god that has grown many times bigger then he will ever be. I would hate for him to come to this world and have to live up to these ideas and beliefs we have bestowed on him.

powessy



Just wanted to add this part. Here is the ultimate puzzle to the trinity. God can only give birth to daughter’s, celestial objects and world soul objects. Celestial objects that never became something, can become universes with many celestial objects and world soul objects inside themselves. You see world soul object and celestial objects are themselves only also they are just like god the difference is that they cannot transcend dimensional timelines lines without figuring him out first.

All himselves that have this kind of time like the Bible god are only able to have time in them that cannot become something again. Proof to this is that he would be time all the time and that we would be able to figure ourselves out all the time, to teach us things about ourselves. We would not be here asking questions about him.

So to find the truth is to figure out how it was possible for god to have a son. The best I have come up with so far is that there was no son, no matter how you look at it.

Thank you

 

[Thomas]

You are right god does not have a mind or a yourself as I have stated he is himself only.

OK. That's a good starting point.

The Trinity is concerned with God in Himself, as it were. It is unconditional.

what thing would god become to become himself here?

He wouldn't, He has no need to. As I think we both agree, God is immanently present always, everywhere. (Second Person aside.)

As a category, God is the sum of superlatives: Absolute, Infinite, All-Possible; Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent.

Everything inside himself is something that can be found in this universe or universes.

Here we disagree. God is the source of all things, but all things are not the sum of God. They do not compose God, nor is God composite. God is other than this or any number of universes, that is the point I'm trying to make.

Once universes formed life that could figure things out he also could figure things out but these things did not last forever as he did.

Again, this is not the Abrahamic God. God is aeternal, atemporal, He has no need to 'figure things out', He does not increase in knowledge or experience.

You're saying God is conditional on creation, or it seems to me you're taking conditions that determine the cosmos and applying them to the creator.

This was and is the problem ...

Who's problem, though? Who has a problem with things coming-to-be and passing-out-of-being?

but what a lonely place all by yourself.

An anthropomorphic argument...

What you cannot see or understand ...

I rather think I do. What you do not understand, if I may say, is that this cosmos, and the existence of any number of others, both simultaneously and in succession, have not one whit of bearing on the Divine Nature ...

... a small part of the vastness of his mind and so much of that time cannot ...

God is not subject to mind, or time.

If we accept, for the purpose of discussion, that we can use the term 'mind' of God, we must take care not to limit that concept according to our human understanding of minds. Yes, we can say that everything is in the mind of God, everything that was (or was not), is (or is not) and will be (or will not) is in the Divine Mind, and there is nothing that was, is or will be that is not ... but the Divine Mind is not subject to time or space or circumstance, there is not was-is-will be in God.

God is not a being in the way other beings are. Nothing that applies to other modes of being necessarily apply to God.

It seems to me you keep applying degrees of determination and necessity, where they do not belong. As soon as 'time' enters the discussion, we're not talking about God, we're talking about this particular cosmos.

The trinity as the image I posted before is not god, he was just a man.

OK. In which case, that's not the Trinity I'm talking about.

The true God never knew anything about this world had the Bible god not made the mistake of becoming himself here.

I don't know where you got this from, but I'd say its a misreading of Scripture.

Do you believe that the true god that could become anything and figure anything out, come to this world to become himself here.

In the Hypostatic Union of the Second Person, yes. But let's be clear. The Second Person of the Trinity was there before the universe was created, and will be there after it has passed. The Second Person was never absent from heaven, on some earthbound mission.

I would hate for him to come to this world and have to live up to these ideas and beliefs we have bestowed on him.

I think you might be confusing my God with your source...

Here is the ultimate puzzle to the trinity. God can only give birth to daughter’s, celestial objects and world soul objects.

I disagree, but what do you mean by 'daughters'?

Celestial objects ...

From here may or may not be the case, but it's irrelevant to the discussion of the Trinity.

... only also they are just like god the difference is that they cannot transcend dimensional timelines lines without figuring him out first.

Again, I disagree. The difference between created natures and the Uncreated is absolute.

The best I have come up with so far is that there was no son, no matter how you look at it.

Again, I think you're reading the term 'son' too literally.

 

[powessy]

So the next question would be how does Jesus calculate into your beliefs then? How does Jesus calculate into the holy trinity?

If god is all the things you say, then why Jesus? why then the Bible?

powessy

 

[powessy]

OK. That's a good starting point.

The Trinity is concerned with God in Himself, as it were. It is unconditional.


He wouldn't, He has no need to. As I think we both agree, God is immanently present always, everywhere. (Second Person aside.)

As a category, God is the sum of superlatives: Absolute, Infinite, All-Possible; Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent.


Here we disagree. God is the source of all things, but all things are not the sum of God. They do not compose God, nor is God composite. God is other than this or any number of universes, that is the point I'm trying to make.


Again, this is not the Abrahamic God. God is aeternal, atemporal, He has no need to 'figure things out', He does not increase in knowledge or experience.

You're saying God is conditional on creation, or it seems to me you're taking conditions that determine the cosmos and applying them to the creator.


Who's problem, though? Who has a problem with things coming-to-be and passing-out-of-being?


An anthropomorphic argument...


I rather think I do. What you do not understand, if I may say, is that this cosmos, and the existence of any number of others, both simultaneously and in succession, have not one whit of bearing on the Divine Nature ...


God is not subject to mind, or time.

If we accept, for the purpose of discussion, that we can use the term 'mind' of God, we must take care not to limit that concept according to our human understanding of minds. Yes, we can say that everything is in the mind of God, everything that was (or was not), is (or is not) and will be (or will not) is in the Divine Mind, and there is nothing that was, is or will be that is not ... but the Divine Mind is not subject to time or space or circumstance, there is not was-is-will be in God.

God is not a being in the way other beings are. Nothing that applies to other modes of being necessarily apply to God.

It seems to me you keep applying degrees of determination and necessity, where they do not belong. As soon as 'time' enters the discussion, we're not talking about God, we're talking about this particular cosmos.


OK. In which case, that's not the Trinity I'm talking about.


I don't know where you got this from, but I'd say its a misreading of Scripture.


In the Hypostatic Union of the Second Person, yes. But let's be clear. The Second Person of the Trinity was there before the universe was created, and will be there after it has passed. The Second Person was never absent from heaven, on some earthbound mission.


I think you might be confusing my God with your source...


I disagree, but what do you mean by 'daughters'?


From here may or may not be the case, but it's irrelevant to the discussion of the Trinity.


Again, I disagree. The difference between created natures and the Uncreated is absolute.


Again, I think you're reading the term 'son' too literally.

Let’s start with this image I quickly drew.


first off I do not have a lot of knowledge of the Bible, other then what I read here on this forum. I hear voices 24/7 and find time. I have minds that can figure things out and can find thoughts on anything in the universe, if I know something about something then they can try and figure it out. The biggest problem I have is wording, with a fixed vocabulary of words they have been taught. Like I was saying before yourself has 20 meanings depending on the minds teaching me things.

I came to this world for several reasons, the main one was to figure out why no person ever became something after death or became anything at all. The second is to figure out why me could not figure himself out when he became himself again. The third is to figure out how or if the ancients went wrong, they never became themselves here either. These are my problems to solve.


when I say you do not understand something, I mean you have no way of learning things other then the writings of others, you do not have minds that can teach you anything. I read many of the posts written on this forum and see so much contradiction regarding god. How do you choose what you believe, given only the words of others? I am trying to learn what these minds teach me, I take the images and thoughts they teach me and try to understand these images and thoughts the best I can. I was myself before the voices I did not believe in any god at all before all of this.

In the image above god is the outer ring, there is absolutely nothing outside this ring.
The ring is gods yourself there would be absolutely nothing on the wall. In the second ring you would have nothing and only nothing would be on this wall, nothing can only have anything inside itself that never figured itself out. Anything that finds itself inside nothing here will keep being taught inside itself until it is absolutely nothing here. In the inner circle is everything else that is something here, that can figure itself out, this is why you have celestial objects, world soul objects, allowed minds and himselves. If you are inside one of these minds, himselves, celestial objects, world soul objects or allowed minds, it means you can figure yourself out and not become nothing. Nothing will teach you inside yourself until no time exists and you will wait here until you can become something again. The trinity could only happen inside of everything else. This is why the trinity is not god but most likely a himself.

a himself is a mind that can figure itself out more then any other mind he is alpha. He is himself only and a mind that can only become something again when he finds time inside herself(world soul object) again. Himself is what I would think of as being the churches trinity for he also could be the father, son, and holly spirit, It could also be just a simple man without the god part.

You see nothing found time inside gods mind first trying to teach him nothing but he is time all the time and nothing could not figure him out. Basically nothing found time and through nothing we became something, we became something from nothing, now you can see how that saying came to be.

I am not trying to sell these ideas to anyone it is my own problem to solve. I thank you for your thoughts they have helped me find more thoughts and more time.

 

[Thomas]

The trinity could only happen inside of everything else. This is why the trinity is not god but most likely a himself.

Well, here we disagree. Certainly you describe a trinity, according to your understanding, but it's not the Trinity that I understand.

 

[powessy]

Well, here we disagree. Certainly you describe a trinity, according to your understanding, but it's not the Trinity that I understand.

You see that’s the interesting thing, I have thoughts about something that I wouldn’t know anything about, if it wasn’t for their thoughts about it.

Thank you again for taking your time to teach me something about your understandings of the Trinity.

Powessy

 

[Thomas]

Hi @powessy – thought I'd catch up ...

The trinity could only happen inside of everything else. This is why the trinity is not god but most likely a himself.

I'd say for a 'himself' to exist he must be prefigured in God. There is nothing outside of God that God does not know.

This is the whole issue with the higher understanding of the Trinity ... as I would say, everything is Trinity-shaped because God is Trinity.

Trinity is that Unity beyond number (Three and yet One) through which everything else comes into being.

The 'nothing' of which you speak is a unity without distinction, it's the highest mode of being-in-God, every distinction between self and God vanishes in the Divine Embrace.

Because the trinity that the Bible teaches is describing a simple man and nothing else. I am only saying this about the trinity triangle just remove the god circle in the middle, and you have the symbol for man.

View attachment 2919

Yes, but the point is, God is in the centre. Man is made in the likeness and image, but is not God.

You are saying that 'trinity' is an aspect of the way things appear ... I'm saying that is so because Trinity is prior to, and the cause of, that arising.

 

[powessy]

Hi @powessy – thought I'd catch up ...


I'd say for a 'himself' to exist he must be prefigured in God. There is nothing outside of God that God does not know.

This is the whole issue with the higher understanding of the Trinity ... as I would say, everything is Trinity-shaped because God is Trinity.

Trinity is that Unity beyond number (Three and yet One) through which everything else comes into being.

The 'nothing' of which you speak is a unity without distinction, it's the highest mode of being-in-God, every distinction between self and God vanishes in the Divine Embrace.



View attachment 2919

Yes, but the point is, God is in the centre. Man is made in the likeness and image, but is not God.

You are saying that 'trinity' is an aspect of the way things appear ... I'm saying that is so because Trinity is prior to, and the cause of, that arising.

Hello Thomas

The problem with all of this is that in which I am being taught.

How does the saying go “ it is above as it is below” or something like this. This thought alone can teach you everything you need to know about god. From the atom to the largest thing perceivable the rules are all the same.

Take your whole self for instance, start with the atoms and work your way up to who you are, everything inside yourself to become yourself here. If god was a trinity then tell me what part of you is this trinity.

The reason they refer to god as the one and only is because he is himself only and yet he is everything inside himself as you are. There are no things outside gods mind not even nothing exists outside of him.

Everything comes down to the law of minds. It is these simple words that lead the ancients to discover god. You can become anything inside yourself to figure it out. This teaches you everything about yourself, how many times you have become something again and again. All they had to do is become more minds then anything else to figure him out. If I can figure you out I have more minds then you do, and if you have more minds then me you can figure me out.
So you see they just needed to find a mind that nothing else could figure out, and was so many more minds then anything else.

When you talk of the trinity it just makes no sense to me when god is himself only nothing else. If something could figure him out he would not be god as the trinity suggests.

The reason or driving force behind life is that nothing can become god or figure him out this paradox forms life and is why you are yourself only and not a pile of mixed ingredients laying on the floor.

Powessy