How can there be a god?

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
584
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Having a BSc in Neurotheology I have some qualifications to speak on the neurology of spirituality. This is in regards to the conversations Ella S. is having with members here and Spirituality as a Survival Mechanism in Humans.


Our ability to experience something spiritual or mystical is the result of a specific hereditary gene called 2 (VMAT2) that releases neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, histamine, and GABA which all create this God Illusion within some of us. This neural pathway is reinforced by religious indoctrination, thus making the delusion stronger and more permanent. Combined with psychological tools such as Shame, Guilt, Punishment, and Reward religion anchors itself into the psyche, and what is nothing more than a genetic illusion becomes a religious delusion.

Fortunately, this gene is not passed down to everyone, and when it is, the neural pathway can be suppressed and defeated by not indoctrinating the brain at a very young age (e.g. religious rituals, schooling, etc.) and through critical religious thinking which is why more and more people are Atheists, NonTheists, and Agnostics.

There is absolutely no evidence of some external, quasi-internal, mystical, what-have-you deity/god . . . there is, however, plenty of evidence that through evolutionary processes this illusion of a god/thing has taken place.
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
Messages
703
Reaction score
537
Points
88
Location
United States
Having a BSc in Neurotheology I have some qualifications to speak on the neurology of spirituality. This is in regards to the conversations Ella S. is having with members here and Spirituality as a Survival Mechanism in Humans.


Our ability to experience something spiritual or mystical is the result of a specific hereditary gene called 2 (VMAT2) that releases neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, histamine, and GABA which all create this God Illusion within some of us. This neural pathway is reinforced by religious indoctrination, thus making the delusion stronger and more permanent. Combined with psychological tools such as Shame, Guilt, Punishment, and Reward religion anchors itself into the psyche, and what is nothing more than a genetic illusion becomes a religious delusion.

Fortunately, this gene is not passed down to everyone, and when it is, the neural pathway can be suppressed and defeated by not indoctrinating the brain at a very young age (e.g. religious rituals, schooling, etc.) and through critical religious thinking which is why more and more people are Atheists, NonTheists, and Agnostics.

There is absolutely no evidence of some external, quasi-internal, mystical, what-have-you deity/god . . . there is, however, plenty of evidence that through evolutionary processes this illusion of a god/thing has taken place.

Even in The God Gene, which is a book and not a scientific paper, its author points out that specific alleles in VMAT2 consist of only one of several genetic factors contributing to spirituality. That's if his hypothesis holds, but his studies have not been peer-reviewed and there's controversy surrounding whether the correlation he found is genuinely statistically significant.

Personally, I'm more of a proponent of the hyper-active agency detection device model, partially because it lines up well with the "evolution" of various religions from shamanic animism.
 

Unveiled artist

Real life Dolls
Messages
125
Reaction score
58
Points
28
5/3/22
Tuesday my family lost our best friend, the sweetest innocent most loving pup in the world. Louie was only 9 and a terrible aggressive cancer took his life he couldn't be saved while being operated on and we put him to sleep. I can't explain the amount of pain and heartbreak we are going through. We loved Louie so much, he was the most important part of our family. The joy and happiness he brought cannot be put into words. His love was truly a gift and we will cherish every moment we spent with him. Louie loved life and made all the horrible parts of our lives so much easier. He didn't deserve this. We will love and miss him everyday forever. We love you Louie.

How could this happen to the most innocent creature on earth? What did he do to deserve this? God has some plan? BS . . . either there isn't a god or it doesn't care. There is no explanation for this.

View attachment 2908

Beautiful pet. My condolences. May I ask, do you have a personal outlet?

For example, when my grandmother died I created a scrap book etc. That or Id sit outside, talk to her, and cry. It's been awhile. Do you write? Meditate?

I agree with @RJM. Go all Will Smith at god. Use him as a punching bag. He exist. Doesn't exist. Doesn't matter. Find some solace and later go into theology.
 

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
584
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Beautiful pet. My condolences. May I ask, do you have a personal outlet?

For example, when my grandmother died I created a scrap book etc. That or Id sit outside, talk to her, and cry. It's been awhile. Do you write? Meditate?

I agree with @RJM. Go all Will Smith at god. Use him as a punching bag. He exist. Doesn't exist. Doesn't matter. Find some solace and later go into theology.
I am a nontheistic Satanist, I do not believe in an external god. How could an innocent creature such as a dog that gives unconditional love, affection, and companionship suffer and die young? To which no one has supplied any adequate explanations as of yet. I threw this out in the Buddhist section to no avail either. There simply is no god, religion is a humanly evolved survival mechanism. Good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people, no one is in charge, and no one is making decisions.

My bereavement and grief are extreme right now, it's a very difficult time. Thank you for sharing your suggestions.
 

RJM

God Feeds the Ravens
Admin
Messages
9,283
Reaction score
2,194
Points
108
agree with @RJM. Go all Will Smith at god. Use him as a punching bag. He exist. Doesn't exist. Doesn't matter. Find some solace and later go into theology.
In fact it was @Namaste Jesus who said it, not me.

I went through a time of shouting at the sky and calling God names, years ago when I lost a lot I valued. I just got back a great cosmic silence. And then a change started happening within me, quiet and gradual. That was a new beginning for me. The major paradigm shifts often happen through times of unhappiness and stress, imo

My dog Pasha was a companion for around 11 yrs. I bought him as a tiny puppy from a guy with face tattoos selling puppies from a box one night, when I was in the pub.

He became so much a part of the family, He learned to walk with me anywhere without a lead, after a couple of close encounters. Once he nearly knocked himself out dashing across a parking lot, when someone opened a car door and he ran into into it. Dong! Stars! But he learned about traffic dangers.

He was a smart guy and so fast. He literally ran tings around other dogs, playing on the beach. He had people he liked, and dogs he liked – also the ones he didn’t like.

He got a growth on the side of his stomach and the vet surgically removed it, and Pasha was fine for a year, then it came back, bigger and worse. I took him for what turned out to be his last walk to the Surfer’s Corner beach one afternoon, and then the next day got a lift to the vet in the back of an open van.

Pasha was excited and having a good time, as usual. I got him to the vet – Tim Prichard was his name – and Tim took him straight into the operating theatre. He came back out after a while and told me: “Look, I can take it off again, but it will come back, worse. There are medications, but costly – and he hasn’t suffered any pain up to now.”

So I just asked him to give Pasha the injection while still under anaesthetic, and that was that. We had that last walk and that last trip in the back of the van, and he never looked into my eyes knowing it was going to be the last trip. Neither of us knew.

A thunder and ligntning storm broke as I left the vet. Later I wrote an ‘Elegy for Pasha’

Intact beneath Thor’s crashing blows
An iron sky yields blinding cracks of running fire
The light of Godhead infinite
Then darkness swiftly closes


I got through it by just not thinking about Pasha at all for the next few months. When the thought came, I pushed it away.

Hang in there @'Amir Alzzalam
 
Last edited:

Thomas

Administrator
Admin
Messages
12,616
Reaction score
2,759
Points
108
... To say that these are the product of a loving, just God, well, I just don't see it...
Nor do I. Rather I see them as the products of a finite and contingent existence. This is the world we inhabit.

Telling people that have experienced tragedy that it's actually a good thing and they deserve it usually doesn't provide much comfort and makes you look like a sadist.
Having suffered such a tragedy, I tend to regard such people as sentimental/superstitious, rather than sadistic. Perhaps they need such comforts and assurances, I don't. But then my Christianity was never the 'happy-clappy' style, and my Jesus is not the 'gentle Jesus meek and mild' as we like to portray Him.
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
Messages
703
Reaction score
537
Points
88
Location
United States
I mean, the more I think about this thread, the more I think about Lord Elohim as the source of our culture's understanding of monotheism.

Lord Elohim wasn't a loving deity. He was a vindictive war-and-storm god who massacred his own people for disobeying him. He himself claims to be wrathful and jealous. He puts the "fear of God" in people.

Then when we turn to the New Testament, he doesn't get any better. He talks about how nobody can ever be good enough for him because everyone is fundamentally broken without him and unworthy of him. Many interpretations seem to imply that, to God, we all deserve to be tormented for an eternity just for existing.

There shouldn't be a Problem of Evil, because the Biblical god is quite clearly already evil.

ETA: Although, this obviously parts drastically from mainstream scriptural interpretation and usually just comes across as tin-foil-hatty to a lot of people in Abrahamic religions. I don't know.

It was very easy for me to become a Gnostic just because of how contemptible Lord Elohim acts throughout the Bible, but the only people who seem to agree with me on that are some atheists and antitheists (with the odd pagan or Satanist)

I'm not trying to go on an anti-Christian rant, though, but these issues lead to a lot of real-world abusive relationships between the parish and the clergy in a lot of churches that I've been to. This isn't a radical perspective on my part, it's just radical for me to point out how abusive and toxic it is.
 
Last edited:

Namaste Jesus

Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai
Moderator
Messages
3,842
Reaction score
1,190
Points
108
Location
Between Celestial Planes
I took him for what turned out to be his last walk to the Surfer’s Corner beach one afternoon, and then the next day got a lift to the vet in the back of an open van.
Quite sad. Had I taken the vet's advice, we would have lost our Charlie 8 years prior to her actual passing last week. She had, I believe been hit by a car at some point prior to wondering onto our property as her back half was very under developed and there was evidence of prior broken limbs.

Vet took one look at her and insisted she should be put down. She won't live long, she'll always be in pain, yada, yada... I told him what I thought of his diagnosis and took her home. Despite her abnormalities, Charlie lived a full and happy life spending most of it frolicking outdoors. It's never easy loosing a pet, but I thank God for the 8 years we had with her.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJM

muhammad_isa

Save Our Souls
Messages
3,288
Reaction score
702
Points
108
Location
Worcester UK
Nor do I. Rather I see them as the products of a finite and contingent existence. This is the world we inhabit..
Indeed.
I don't think one can decide whether there is "One" superior to us, on the basis of what happens to us in this life.
More importantly for the person with faith, is what happens to us after we leave this finite existence on earth.

..and as for dogs and cats, there is no question of there destiny .. they hold no responsibility for their actions as we do.
Aren't they the lucky ones. :)
 

stranger

the divine ignorance (and friends)
Messages
1,063
Reaction score
404
Points
83
Location
South
I mean, the more I think about this thread, the more I think about Lord Elohim as the source of our culture's understanding of monotheism.

Lord Elohim wasn't a loving deity. He was a vindictive war-and-storm god who massacred his own people for disobeying him. He himself claims to be wrathful and jealous. He puts the "fear of God" in people.

Then when we turn to the New Testament, he doesn't get any better. He talks about how nobody can ever be good enough for him because everyone is fundamentally broken without him and unworthy of him. Many interpretations seem to imply that, to God, we all deserve to be tormented for an eternity just for existing.

There shouldn't be a Problem of Evil, because the Biblical god is quite clearly already evil.

ETA: Although, this obviously parts drastically from mainstream scriptural interpretation and usually just comes across as tin-foil-hatty to a lot of people in Abrahamic religions. I don't know.

It was very easy for me to become a Gnostic just because of how contemptible Lord Elohim acts throughout the Bible, but the only people who seem to agree with me on that are some atheists and antitheists (with the odd pagan or Satanist)

I'm not trying to go on an anti-Christian rant, though, but these issues lead to a lot of real-world abusive relationships between the parish and the clergy in a lot of churches that I've been to. This isn't a radical perspective on my part, it's just radical for me to point out how abusive and toxic it is.

Fffffft. You come off whining like a Job on a bad hair day.
 

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
584
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Indeed.
I don't think one can decide whether there is "One" superior to us, on the basis of what happens to us in this life.
More importantly for the person with faith, is what happens to us after we leave this finite existence on earth.

..and as for dogs and cats, there is no question of there destiny .. they hold no responsibility for their actions as we do.
Aren't they the lucky ones. :)
Afterlife? Just another 'idea', no evidence whatsoever, another fantasy. All our dog wanted to do was love us, and assist us in everything we do on this earth, he was innocent . . . I remain convinced there is no 'god' or whatever you want to label it.
 

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
584
Reaction score
185
Points
43
I mean, the more I think about this thread, the more I think about Lord Elohim as the source of our culture's understanding of monotheism.

Lord Elohim wasn't a loving deity. He was a vindictive war-and-storm god who massacred his own people for disobeying him. He himself claims to be wrathful and jealous. He puts the "fear of God" in people.

Then when we turn to the New Testament, he doesn't get any better. He talks about how nobody can ever be good enough for him because everyone is fundamentally broken without him and unworthy of him. Many interpretations seem to imply that, to God, we all deserve to be tormented for an eternity just for existing.

There shouldn't be a Problem of Evil, because the Biblical god is quite clearly already evil.

ETA: Although, this obviously parts drastically from mainstream scriptural interpretation and usually just comes across as tin-foil-hatty to a lot of people in Abrahamic religions. I don't know.

It was very easy for me to become a Gnostic just because of how contemptible Lord Elohim acts throughout the Bible, but the only people who seem to agree with me on that are some atheists and antitheists (with the odd pagan or Satanist)

I'm not trying to go on an anti-Christian rant, though, but these issues lead to a lot of real-world abusive relationships between the parish and the clergy in a lot of churches that I've been to. This isn't a radical perspective on my part, it's just radical for me to point out how abusive and toxic it is.
The majority of Abrahamics have no clue where their make-believe deity came from.


The Jews and Christians both fashioned their God after an ancient pre-Islamic Arabian (3000 BC) deity. Yahweh was a North Arabian War God who was worshiped by the Semitic tribes living near the Gulf of Aqaba originating with the Midianite, Hebrew, Moabite, and Edomite tribes of southern Jordan and Palestine. Yahweh's consort was the fertility Goddess Ashira. Yahweh is a typical ancient Near Eastern "divine warrior", who leads the heavenly army against Israel's enemies. He is a God of War, make no mistake.
 

RJM

God Feeds the Ravens
Admin
Messages
9,283
Reaction score
2,194
Points
108
A lot of people don't believe in a God, a lot of people do. They're not stupid.

I don't believe in a flat earth or pink flying elephants, but I don't feel the need in every post I make, to keep telling everybody that I do not?

Those who have felt the touch of the divine are certain, regardless of words in books, and those who have not, think it's just illogical. So ...

(edited, sorry)
 
Last edited:

Thomas

Administrator
Admin
Messages
12,616
Reaction score
2,759
Points
108
The majority of Abrahamics have no clue where their make-believe deity came from.
Are you sure you understand the claims the Abrahamics are making?

The Jews and Christians both fashioned their God after an ... (3000 BC) deity.
Indeed, so it's believed. But it's also understood that theology evolved over time, so the God of Jews and Christians today is quite different from the God of the peoples of 3,000BC. You can rest assured we have moved on somewhat in our theology and beliefs since those days.
 

badger

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,180
Reaction score
409
Points
83
What do you see?
That everything happens by chance, and that when you are dead, you will know no more and it is all meaningless?
The idea that humans get some special deal just has got to be the indicative of megalomania, I think.
I reckon you'll get the same deal as any other creature. :)
 

RJM

God Feeds the Ravens
Admin
Messages
9,283
Reaction score
2,194
Points
108
The idea that humans get some special deal just has got to be the indicative of megalomania, I think.
Why? Do you think billions of people who think differently to you are megalomaniacs?
reckon you'll get the same deal as any other creature
And you are entitled to your opinion. But you may be wrong, and you have no way of knowing. Your belief gives you no superiority of intelligence over those who believe differently; people all have their own lives and reasons, imo ...
 

muhammad_isa

Save Our Souls
Messages
3,288
Reaction score
702
Points
108
Location
Worcester UK
The idea that humans get some special deal just has got to be the indicative of megalomania, I think.
I reckon you'll get the same deal as any other creature. :)
I don't think so.
Other creatures have nothing to answer for, whereas we do.

If all deeds are laid bare [ in a life after death ], it is then clear who is sincere and who is not.
It cannot be paradise surrounded by the insincere, so..
 
Top