Pope's remarks...

We're not the only ones doing IO then!

Representatives of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Orthodox, Catholic and Protestants, from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran, Israel, Armenia, Russia, Vatican, United Kingdom, Mongolia, Thailand, South Korea, China, Japan, India, United Arab Emirates, Azerbaijan ... Representatives of international organisations also attended the secretariat session.

US not mentioned as present? Nor Hindu? Needs work ... but yes, well said.
 
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US is the perpetrator of literal interp leading to exclusionist hateful theology.

I think calling it fundamental is a misnomer ...love your brother...that is fundamental.
 
These words echo the path we need to take.

We will hear more conversations such as these.

Literal interpretation is indeed the killer of the spirit.

Regards Tony
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
These words echo the path we need to take.

We will hear more conversations such as these.

Literal interpretation is indeed the killer of the spirit.

Regards Tony
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Why don't you write a letter to the Pope? Perhaps he never thought of that?
 
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RJM said:
Why don't you write a letter to the Pope,? Perhaps he never thought of that?
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I would offer the Pope has thought of that and in fact, thought of many wonderdul things.

The Catholic Faith is the Church upon which Jesus the Christ built the Christian Faith.

Regards Tony
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
I would offer the Pope has thought of that and in fact, thought of many wonderdul things.

The Catholic Faith is the Church upon which Jesus the Christ built the Christian Faith.

Regards Tony
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Right ...
Anything else?
Like something new or original?
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
The Catholic Faith is the Church upon which Jesus the Christ built the Christian Faith.
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Other than the fact that you believe that Christianity, great as you believe it might have been, is outdated, having been superceded by Baha’i, are you saying that the Catholic church is the only legitimate representative of Christianity? Are you saying that any church other than the one headed by the pope is illegitimate?

I don’t know how many non-Catholic Christians are here, but you might be getting some feedback!
 
RabbiO said:
Other than the fact that you believe that Christianity, great as you believe it might have been, is outdated, having been superceded by Baha’i, are you saying that the Catholic church is the only legitimate representative of Christianity? Are you saying that any church other than the one headed by the pope is illegitimate?

I don’t know how many non-Catholic Christians are here, but you might be getting some feedback!
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From a time in AD 300 to the first split in Ad 700, it was the guiding light for Christians.

From then, many paths have been laid, which all lead back to the same One Truth and that original foundation is still around. All share the foundation of the Message given by Jesus the Christ.

It is interesting that the Pope in the mid to late 1800's, that made the doctrine of Infallibility of the Pope, lived when the power of the Catholic Chruch was changed forever and he himself became a self imposed excile within the Vatican.

Regards Tony
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
It is interesting that the Pope in the mid to late 1800's, that made the doctrine of Infallibility of the Pope, lived when the power of the Catholic Chruch was changed forever and he himself became a self imposed excile within the Vatican.
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It is interesting that Baha'u'llah declared himself infallible around the same time? Is this going to be another Baha'i proselytizing thread -- telling others how to understand their own religion?
 
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Papal infallibility is really 'the buck stops here' after extensive consultation. It is very seldom exercised and it's not the Pope laying down ad hoc infallible decrees. It does not mean the Pope is infallible in every word he speaks. That would be someone else, imo

https://www.britannica.com/topic/papal-infallibility

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church which states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the pope when he speaks ex cathedra is preserved from the possibility of error on doctrine "initially given to the apostolic Church and handed down in Scripture and tradition". It does not mean that the pope cannot sin or otherwise err in most situations ...
 
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RJM said:
It is interesting that Baha'u'llah declared himself infallible around the same time? Is this going to be another Baha'i proselytizing thread -- telling others how to understand their own religion?
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It appears you wish to steer it that way.

Is it not the Pope challenging Catholicism and Christianity as a whole to be more open?

Regards Tony
 
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Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
Is it not the Pope challenging Catholicism and Christianity as a whole to be more open?
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Pope Francis says a lot of things:
Some quotes by Pope Francis:

Jesus's face is similar to that of so many of our brothers and sisters, humiliated, rendered slaves. Emptied. God took on that face. And that face looks at us.

Life itself is a great gift. For it is a time to love, and be loved.

If we accept that God's love in unconditional, that the Father's love cannot be bought or sold, then we will become capable of showing boundless love and forgiving others even if they have wronged us.

God is full of patience. He never tires of offering us his forgiveness each time we ask for it. His is a pardon that is full and complete, one that assures us that even if we fall back into the same sins, he is merciful and never ceases to love us.

When the Lord calls us, he doesn't worry about what we are, what we have been, or what we have done or not done. Quite the opposite. When he calls us, he is thinking about everything we have to give, all the love we are capable of spreading.

How does Jesus pray for us today? I believe that Jesus shows his wounds to the Father, because the wounds went with him after the resurrection. He shows the wounds to the Father and names each of us. A Christian is enlivened by the awareness that at this very moment Jesus is interceding for us.

The incarnation of the word in a human family, in Nazareth, by its very newness changed the history of the world.

We are God's beloved children, always. So you can see that not to accept ourselves, to live glumly, to be negative, means not to recognise our deepest identity. It is like walking away when God wants to look at me, trying to spoil his dream for me.

When it comes to JESUS we cannot sit around waiting with arms folded; he offers us life we can't respond by thinking about it or "texting" a few words!

Is it possible to forgive totally? It is a grace we must ask of the Lord. We, by ourselves, cannot: we make the effort, but forgiveness is a grace that the Lord gives. Ask the grace of meekness of heart. And there we also find the grace that opens the way to forgiveness.

We are called to find Christ In the poor, to lend our voice to their causes, but also to be their friends, to listen to them, to speak for them.

Blessed indeed are they who can forgive, who show heartfelt compassion, who are capable of offering the very best to others; The best, Not what is left over: The best!

God does not hide from those who seek him. Jesus shows Thomas his glorious wounds; He makes him touch with his hand the infinite tenderness of God, The vivid signs Of how much he Suffered out of love for humanity.

To be "blessed", in order to taste the comfort of friendship with Jesus Christ, it is necessary to have an open heart.

Jesus is the Lord of risk. Jesus is not the Lord of comfort, security and ease. Following Jesus demands a good dose of courage, a readiness to trade in the sofa for a pair of walking shoes and to set out on new and uncharted paths.

The Church must be implanted and rooted in Christ, allowing herself to be led by the Spirit, thus everything will be possible with genius and creativity.

The Father's Mercy constantly invites us to be part of the Kingdom. It is a kingdom of joy, a kingdom always joyful, always driving us forward. A Kingdom able to give us the strength to change things.

Peace builds bridges, whereas hatred is the builder of walls. You must decide, in life: either I will make bridges or I will make walls.

Thomas says to Jesus "My Lord and my God!" We would do well, today, and every day, to pray these magnificent words, and to say to the Lord: you are my on treasure, the path I must follow, the core of my life, my all.

Mary is that space, preserved free from sin, where God chose to mirror himself. She is the stairway God took to descend and draw near to us.

Following Jesus entails blazing trails that open up new horizons capable of spreading joy, the joy that is born of God's love and wells up in your hearts with every act of mercy.

When one realises that life, even in the middle of so many contradictions, is a gift, that love is the source and the meaning of life, how can they withhold their urge to do good to another fellow being?

With Mary may each of us become a sign and sacrament of the mercy of God, who pardons always and pardons everything.

The risen Lord is the hope that never fails, that does not disappoint. The hope of Christians is strong, safe and sound in this land where God has called us to walk, and is open to eternity, because it is founded on God, who is always faithful.

Mercy is not easy. It takes courage. That is why Jesus tells us: It is much better than antidepressants and anxiety medication. It is much more effective than walls, grates, alarms and weapons. "Do not be afraid" for mercy is the best antidote to fear. And it is free: it is a gift from GOD.

In order to meet God, we need to go where he is. We need to bow down, to humble ourselves, to make ourselves small.

We must not underestimate the power of the face of Christ. His face is the image of his transcendence. It is the 'face' of mercy. Let us allow ourselves to be looked at by him. Let us always be unsettled by his question: "Who do you say that I am?"

We didn't come into this world to "vegetate", to take it easy, to make our lives a comfortable sofa to fall asleep on. No, we came for another reason: to leave a mark. It is very sad to pass through life without leaving a mark.

Jesus is the one who got his hands really dirty. Jesus got the most dirty. He was not a "fastidious" man; instead he went to the people, among the people, and accepted the people as they were, not as they should have been.

We have to realise that all of us are a complex mixture of light and shadows. The other person is much more than the sum of the little things that annoy me.

Jesus' heart is won over by sincere openness, by hearts capable of acknowledging and grieving over their weakness, yet trusting that precisely there God's mercy will be active.

When the heart is open and able to dream, there is room for mercy, there is room to caress those who suffer, there is room to draw close to those who have no peace of heart, or who do not have the most beautiful thing of all: the faith.

The Lord does not want to be feared like a powerful and aloof sovereign. He does not want to remain on his throne in heaven or in history books, but loves to come down to our everyday affairs, to walk with us.

God counts on you for what you are not for what you possess. In his eyes the clothes you wear or the kind of cell phone you use are of absolutely no concern. He doesn't care whether you are stylish or not; he cares about you, just as you are! In his eyes, you are precious, and your value is inestimable.

The Way of the Cross alone defeats sin, evil and death, resurrection and opens the horizons of a new and fuller life. For it leads to the radiant light of Christ's resurrection and opens the horizons of a new and fuller life.

Gospel realism is practical because it knows that "grains and weeds" grow together, and the best grain in this life will always be mixed with a few weeds.

Those who love not only refrain from speaking too much about themselves, but are focused on others; they do not need to be the centre of attention.

Jesus directs us to a one way street: that of going forth from ourselves. It is a one way trip, with no return ticket. It involves making an exodus from ourselves, losing our lives for his sake and setting out on the path of self-gift.

Christian doctrine is not a closed system, incapable of raising questions, doubts, inquiries, but is living, is able to unsettle, is able to enliven. It has a face that is supple, a body that moves and develops, flesh that is tender; Christian doctrine is called Jesus Christ.

To find Fulfilment, to gain new life, there is a way, a way that is not for sale, that cannot be purchased, a way that is not a thing or an object, but a person. His name is Jesus Christ.

Those who take up this Way of the Cross with generosity and faith sow seeds of hope. I want you to be Sowers of Hope.

The Word becomes flesh, Is born of a Mother, is born under the law, has friends and goes to a party. The eternal is communicated by spending time with people and in concrete situations.

To offer today's world the witness of mercy is a task from which none of us can feel exempt.

God's providence is always one step ahead of us.

Jesus wants us to open the doors we have closed because of fear: He wants us to go out to spread God's pardon and peace, with the power of the Holy Spirit.

The beatitudes are the mirror in which we see ourselves, the one that allows us to know whether we are walking on the right path: it is a mirror that does not lie.

Mercy always has a youthful face Because a merciful heart is motivated to move beyond its comfort zone. A merciful heart can go out and meet others; it is ready to embrace everyone; it knows the meaning of tenderness and compassion.

Unless those who call themselves Christian live to serve, their lives serve no good purpose. By their lives, they deny Jesus Christ.

Service is the rule. The one who is greatest is the one who serves most, who is most at the service of others, not the one who boasts, who seeks power, money, vanity, pride.

Do you want a full life? Start right this moment by letting yourself be open and attentive! Because happiness is sown and blossoms in mercy. That is Jesus' answer, his offer, his challenge, his adventure: mercy.

Trust the memory of God: his memory is not a "hard disk" that "saves" and "archives" all our data, his memory is a heart filled with tender compassion, one that finds joy in "erasing" in us every trace of evil.

The Father is always On the lookout, waiting for the return of the prodigal son. All of us are that son.

The joy that you have freely received from GOD, please, freely give away: so many people are waiting for it! So many are waiting for it from you.

To be attracted by power, by grandeur, by appearances, is tragically human. It is a great temptation that tries to insinuate itself everywhere. But to give oneself to others, eliminating distances, dwelling in littleness and living the reality of one's everyday life: this is exquisitely divine.

The Lord poured out his blood not for some, nor for few nor for many, But For All.
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Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
From a time in AD 300 to the first split in Ad 700, it was the guiding light for Christians.
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Well, from the get-go, really. Constantine was nothing but a recognition of what existed, and of course there were disputes before Constantine.

Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
It is interesting that the Pope in the mid to late 1800's, that made the doctrine of Infallibility of the Pope, lived when the power of the Catholic Chruch was changed forever and he himself became a self imposed excile within the Vatican.
Click to expand...
Ooh, are you sure you understand the doctrine of infallibility? It's a common error to attribute infallibility to the pope, but no pope is infallible. He does not know whether it will rain tomorrow. It's more nuanced than most people realise. It defines a statement made from the Chair of St Peter, commonly called ex cathedra.

In 2005 the then-Pope Benedict XVI said: "The Pope is not an oracle; he is infallible in very rare situations, as we know." Pope John XXIII, father of Vatican II, remarked: "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible."

Understanding the doctrine of infallibility is quite complex, but here are some examples:
The two most recent concern the Blessed Virgin Mary. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (Ineffabilis Deus 1854) – the belief that Mary was free of original sin from the moment of conception (not, that she became pregnant by mysterious means, as many mistaken believe) – is an example of an ex cathedra statement before Vatican I, but this was before the doctrine of papal infallibility.

We believe it, although there is no Scriptural attestation to the fact, nor is it strongly held by tradition. Rather, as I was taught, she was baptised by the Holy Spirit at some point prior to her conceiving the Godchild ... whether from birth, or from a nanoscond before, we do not know.

The second is the only example of an ex cathedra statement since Vatican I, in 1950, when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as an article of faith. Again, Scripture does not mention her final moments, although there are strong but disputed traditions.

In both cases, the popes had consulted with bishops and theologians before making their declaration.

Earlier declaration is famously the Tome to Flavian, by Pope Leo I in 449AD, a declaration on the two natures in Christ, received by the Council of Chalcedon and greeted with the cry "St Peter has spoken through Leo."
 
Thomas said:
Well, from the get-go, really. Constantine was nothing but a recognition of what existed, and of course there were disputes before Constantine.


Ooh, are you sure you understand the doctrine of infallibility? It's a common error to attribute infallibility to the pope, but no pope is infallible. He does not know whether it will rain tomorrow. It's more nuanced than most people realise. It defines a statement made from the Chair of St Peter, commonly called ex cathedra.

In 2005 the then-Pope Benedict XVI said: "The Pope is not an oracle; he is infallible in very rare situations, as we know." Pope John XXIII, father of Vatican II, remarked: "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible."

Understanding the doctrine of infallibility is quite complex, but here are some examples:
The two most recent concern the Blessed Virgin Mary. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (Ineffabilis Deus 1854) – the belief that Mary was free of original sin from the moment of conception (not, that she became pregnant by mysterious means, as many mistaken believe) – is an example of an ex cathedra statement before Vatican I, but this was before the doctrine of papal infallibility.

We believe it, although there is no Scriptural attestation to the fact, nor is it strongly held by tradition. Rather, as I was taught, she was baptised by the Holy Spirit at some point prior to her conceiving the Godchild ... whether from birth, or from a nanoscond before, we do not know.

The second is the only example of an ex cathedra statement since Vatican I, in 1950, when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as an article of faith. Again, Scripture does not mention her final moments, although there are strong but disputed traditions.

In both cases, the popes had consulted with bishops and theologians before making their declaration.

Earlier declaration is famously the Tome to Flavian, by Pope Leo I in 449AD, a declaration on the two natures in Christ, received by the Council of Chalcedon and greeted with the cry "St Peter has spoken through Leo."
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Thank you for that Thomas. I applaud all the good done by all the Popes and the followers.

Regards Tony
 
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