World events are preparing us for peace.

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badger

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Good point

I get this too, from these threads. It's all peace on earth and gardens of flowers and billowing oceans of bliss. Butter wouldn't melt in my mouth. But I don't think it's justified to deny the persecution of Baha'i in Iran as fake news either. No more to add, really?
It's just that in recent years there has not been so much persecution of bahais. One post claimed that Baha'i friends were persecuted every day but when asked could think of two cases in recent years .

But if you know better I would certainly read about recent cases. With 300,000 Bahais in the country there must be some arrests, surely?
 

RJM

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It's just that in recent years there has not been so much persecution of bahais. One post claimed that Baha'i friends were persecuted every day but when asked could think of two cases in recent years .

But if you know better I would certainly read about recent cases. With 300,000 Bahais in the country there must be some arrests, surely?
Therefore you dispute the Iran Human Rights 2020 report?
]Iran Human Rights Watch:

Iranian law denies freedom of religion to Baha'is and discriminates against them. Authorities continue to arrest and prosecute members of the Baha'i faith on vague national security charges and close down or suspend licenses for businesses owned by them.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/iran#:~:text=Iranian law denies freedom of,for businesses owned by them.
Regardless of who else is also persecuted in Iran, I mean?
 
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RJM

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Iran 2020 Human Rights Report
 

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badger

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A 2020 report concerning Iran government seriously reducing people's right to demonstrate and or protest. Increases in violence and torture of detainees, and more.

The first paragraphs. The more that the Iranian government feels that it is losing the support of the people, so the more harsh and violent the controls, I expect.

I expect that a considerable % of the population wishes to move towards western values and freedoms. The government can be expected to become more harsh.
 

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A 2020 report concerning Iran government seriously reducing people's right to demonstrate and or protest. Increases in violence and torture of detainees, and more.

The first paragraphs. The more that the Iranian government feels that it is losing the support of the people, so the more harsh and violent the controls, I expect.

I expect that a considerable % of the population wishes to move towards western values and freedoms. The government can be expected to become more harsh.
Do you dispute this paragraph in the above report?

"Iranian law denies freedom of religion to Baha’is and discriminates against them. Authorities continue to arrest and prosecute members of the Baha’i faith on vague national security charges and close down or suspend licenses for businesses owned by them. Iranian authorities also systematically refuse to allow Baha’is to register at public universities because of their faith"
 
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RJM

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With one party seeming to lobby up and the other down -- both equally sincere -- the reality is obviously in the middle, IMO? Clearly not fun to be Baha'i in Iran. Thanks to everybody I've learned a lot from these threads

(edited)
 
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badger

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Do you dispute this paragraph in the above report?

"Iranian law denies freedom of religion to Baha’is and discriminates against them. Authorities continue to arrest and prosecute members of the Baha’i faith on vague national security charges and close down or suspend licenses for businesses owned by them. Iranian authorities also systematically refuse to allow Baha’is to register at public universities because of their faith"
Iran has always reduced Baha'i freedoms in respect of its prosletizing, but I haven't seen evidence of unreasonable university denials, or vague charges....I haven't seen any charges at all. I haven't seen any trial records either.

It begins to look as if you believe all Baha'i claims, and that all Baha'i arrests, charges and convictions have been gross miscarriages of justice.

If Baha'i should ever have enough followers to become a government then people within that country will have the opportunity to decide which theocracy they think is more dreadful, Islam or Baha'i.
 

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haven't seen evidence of unreasonable university denials, or vague charges....I haven't seen any charges at all. I haven't seen any trial records either.
Have you applied to examine the trial records of those Baha'i women recently sentenced to ankle bracelets?
 

badger

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Have you applied to examine the trial records of those Baha'i women recently sentenced to ankle bracelets?
No.
I mentioned (in a previous post) that a woman has been arrested for not concealing enough of her face, not wearing her hijab correctly. One of the Morality Police hit her on the head and she has died from that injury. Many brave women have had the guts to demonstrate against this brutality, mostly in the Shiraz region, and my 3g news reports that 35 people have been killed in incidents. I need to check on that and will put up any links that I find in a following post.

Prison reduced to ankle bracelets is going to dip in to the shadows, I'm guessing.
 

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Have you applied to examine the trial records of those Baha'i women recently sentenced to ankle bracelets?
Here we go....
Following on from my previous post, while searching for news of demonstrations across Iran over a woman killed in detention over a morality law, I found myself to be reading this article, so I've provided a link and now show a few paragraphs for scrutiny.

Minorities are always under observation in Iran. Many minorities can have difficulties if they want to hold meetings of more than a handful of people.

But working women have a very poor deal indeed. Secondary schooling is not an option for them, they are expected to carry out manual work in the fields, marry young, and to rise out of their situations is extremely difficult. A really tragic situation which I would encourage anybody to investigate.

Bahai women are mostly middle class citizens, they don't get anywhere near such treatment, I think.
And all I've heard is Bahai telling us it's all about....... Bahai! Yes, that fits.

https://women.ncr-iran.org/2020/10/...g5qN_tQi4aCEKBab-qtoCuLWw8bdrWjQaAvBTEALw_wcB

Early marriages, exclusion from school, domestic violence, lack of knowledge of their legal and social rights, lack of access to sanitation, hygiene, and water are among dozens of challenges the rural women of Iran face. These problems prevent the progress of rural women in Iran and subdue their creativity.
The culture of male-domination promoted by the clerical regime is reinforced in villages by a patriarchal management culture. Both of which forbid women’s social participation.
The rural social structure dictates that a “good” woman must tolerate all the hardships. She must work hard and serve everyone in the family. She must protect the family despite her own physical and psychological decline.
This culture coupled with poverty and hundreds of other problems imposed on the nation by a tyrannical regime, have created an inconceivable situation for the rural women of Iran and the Iranian village girls.
 

RJM

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Do you intend to view the trial records before expressing an opinion about their conviction and sentencing? Remember we are talking about the treatment of Baha'i in Iran here -- not about the treatment of other minority groups, in Iran or elsewhere.
Why should it be believed blindly?
On what grounds do you reject this evidence by the world Human Rights Watch?
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/iran#:~:text=Iranian law denies freedom of,for businesses owned by them

https://www.hrw.org/
 
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Aupmanyav

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On what grounds do you reject this evidence by the world Human Rights Watch?
It is a Western organization and it will not be surprising if it works for interests of West.
West has many more sham organizations to further its interests.
Even 'human rights' do not have the same meaning for all countries. That is why India has not signed the UN Charter.
 
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RJM

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It is a Western organization and it will not be surprising if it works for interests of West.
West has many more sham organizations to further its interests.
Even 'human rights' do not have the same meaning for all countries. That is why India has not signed the UN Charter.
Fair enough
 

badger

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Do you intend to view the trial records before expressing an opinion about their conviction and sentencing? Remember we are talking about the treatment of Baha'i in Iran here -- not the treatment of other minority groups, in Iran or elsewhere.
Yes.
Please can you show these.

This may be more easy very soon because it has been the USA that has been blocking IT communications in to Iran. The US has agreed to reopen connections now.
 

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Yes.
Please can you show these.
You brought them up. You know you have zero chance of getting them from the Iranian government -- so your statement that you haven't seen any court documents doesn't mean anything at all in this case.
haven't seen evidence of unreasonable university denials, or vague charges....I haven't seen any charges at all. I haven't seen any trial records either.
Therefore from where do you get your information that these women really were guilty of whatever crimes they were accused of -- or even of what crimes they were accused? Sedition and being Isaeli agents, etc?
 
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RJM

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End of the day it’s reasonable for me to credit the main sense of the accounts of persecution of Baha’i in Iran, regardless that other groups are also persecuted, both in Iran and elsewhere.
 

badger

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You brought them up. You know you have zero chance of getting them from the Iranian government -- so your statement that you haven't seen any court documents doesn't mean anything at all in this case.

Therefore from where do you get your information that these women really were guilty of whatever crimes they were accused of -- or even of what crimes they were accused? Sedition and being Isaeli agents, etc?
They were convicted.
Do you know that they were innocent?

Were they charged with sedition? I had forgotten.
 
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