A little help

[Thinking required]

I am once again reading the Quran (sorry, english translation). I have been told by Muslims that the Bible, Jewish and Christian texts are both corrupted. Yet Islam uses certain text from those same text when they want to validate something that they believe. Like Muhammad being spoken of in the texts. But why would all the historic stories be corrupt? The historical stories about Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and even Creation are all different in the Quran. Thanks for your help.

 

[muhammad_isa]

But why would all the historic stories be corrupt?

They are composed of relatively ancient texts/scrolls.
We do not have the originals.
..and I believe that Jesus complained about corruption amongst some of the Jews,
where some things were exaggerated, and others ignored.

The historical stories about Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and even Creation are all different in the Quran..

..not that different.

 

[Thinking required]

They are composed of relatively ancient texts/scrolls.
We do not have the originals.
..and I believe that Jesus complained about corruption amongst some of the Jews,
where some things were exaggerated, and others ignored.

Just because text are old, does that make them wrong? It's interesting that Jesus quotes those old text many times.

Be careful here talking about "originals". The original Quran does not exist either. It wasn't even written down until after the death of Muhammad, and there was disagreement on what Muhammad had "recited". This is all from Islamic sources.

There has always been corruption in everything, even Islam. You have Sunni's and Shiite's who do not agree. The "corruption" was not about the Law or Scriptures, it was lies coming from false prophets. And with Jesus, He challenged the teachings of men, instead of relying on what was written. There is nothing that supports the corruption of the texts.

 

[Thinking required]

..not that different.

Evidently you don't know the Bible very well or you don't know the Quran very well. So, Adam was deceived by Satan, the Quran, not in Bible. Eve was deceived, not Adam, yes Adam was held accountable for the sin of mankind. Noah did not take but 2 of his sons on the Ark, the Quran, not in the Bible, Noah took all 3 sons and their wives, 8 people. Noah never preached to the people as the Quran says; mankind was already doomed to destruction when God gave Noah the orders to build the Ark. And then we can go to the Christian scriptures; Mary bore Jesus under a Palm tree and Jesus spoke to his mother as soon as he was born, the Quran, not in the Christian texts. These are what you call minor differences!

Do you also realize that there was never one Book, the Quran uses the singular word for all 3 Books, when it comes to Jews or Christians, unlike the Quran which came from one source, Muhammad. The Jewish Scriptures consist of 39 Books, as in the Bible, the Christian Scriptures consist of 27 different Books and between these two sets of Books there were many who penned them over @1500 years. Moses did not receive a Book, the Torah is 5 Books. Adam, Noah, and Abraham had no Book. We are talking about @1500 years here without a Book.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Just because text are old, does that make them wrong? It's interesting that Jesus quotes those old text many times.

Jesus did not quote them in their entirety..

.. with Jesus, He challenged the teachings of men, instead of relying on what was written. There is nothing that supports the corruption of the texts.

What are you trying to say, here?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Evidently you don't know the Bible very well or you don't know the Quran very well. So, Adam was deceived by Satan, the Quran, not in Bible. Eve was deceived, not Adam, yes Adam was held accountable for the sin of mankind.

..and so, is the moral of the story completely different?
The Qur'an tells us that G-d forgave Adam .. do you think that that is wrong?

..then we can go to the Christian scriptures; Mary bore Jesus under a Palm tree and Jesus spoke to his mother as soon as he was born, the Quran, not in the Christian texts. These are what you call minor differences!

What about the apocrytha?
Why is it that only canonical texts are inerrant?

 

[Thinking required]

..and so, is the moral of the story completely different?
The Qur'an tells us that G-d forgave Adam .. do you think that that is wrong?

It has nothing to do with the moral of the story. God tells us to do good, Jews, Christians and Muslims, which is what the Quran says. The Bible that I have today says the same thing. There is nothing in the Quran that is not in the Bible. I take that back, there are a few stories that don't exist in the Bible, ones about Jesus. I am talking about the context of the story. Since God inspired the story to Moses, should not the same God get the story exactly the same if He gives it to someone else. The biblical stories are retold or related to in any book of the bible, they are the same in content. Consistency

 

[Thinking required]

What are you trying to say, here?

The Jews were teaching works righteousness; the Law could not save, it was only to reveal sin. Jesus was trying to get them to see the problem.

 

[Thinking required]

What about the apocrytha?
Why is it that only canonical texts are inerrant?

The apocrypha are considered deuterocanonical books and were not accepted by the Jews into their scriptures. It doesn't matter about other texts, they are not included in the Bible. Those texts are historical in nature when it comes to the Jews, but they are Jewish text, you would have to ask a Jew as to why they are not included. As far as the New Testament, they predated it and none of those texts are quoted in the New Testament.

 

[Thinking required]

Jesus did not quote them in their entirety..

Many of the verses that Jesus quotes are about Him. He was not trying to retell a story to validate Himself. "the Scriptures speak about me" Jesus is foretold as coming, especially in the book of Isaiah.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Many of the verses that Jesus quotes are about Him.

That is how many Christians interpret them.

"the Scriptures speak about me" Jesus is foretold as coming, especially in the book of Isaiah.

Maybe .. I don't see any problem.
The Qur'an states that it confirms the Bible .. it does not say that Christians and Jews
believe in a "different G-d".

 

[Thinking required]

That is how many Christians interpret them

How many clear examples would you like me to give you. There is only one correct interpretation when it comes to Scripture.
So what about Muslims trying to read Muhammad into the text of John’s Gospel. In Chapter 14 and 15, Jesus is talking about sending the Holy Spirit to the disciples and I have been told that Jesus is talking about the coming of Muhammad. There is just no way Muhammad can be inserted in the text, impossible.

 

[Thinking required]

The Qur'an states that it confirms the Bible .. it does not say that Christians and Jews
believe in a "different G-d".

The Bible does to need to be confirmed. Muhammad is trying to validate his leadership by bring the Scritures into the Quran since Muhammad never is able to do any miracles. Jesus did miracle after miracle after miracle, from raising the dead, to healing the lame, to healing the blind, to casting out daemons, and so much more. Even in the Jewish Scriptures, miracles were done for validation. God always validates through miracles. That way there are no questions about authority.

There are too many differences between what the Quran says and what the Bible says. Especially when it comes to Jesus.

 

[Cino]

Want me to move this thread to the Christian forum, @muhammad_isa ? It seems to be all about Christian apologetics and not about Islam.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I am once again reading the Quran (sorry, english translation). I have been told by Muslims that the Bible, Jewish and Christian texts are both corrupted. Yet Islam uses certain text from those same text when they want to validate something that they believe. Like Muhammad being spoken of in the texts. But why would all the historic stories be corrupt? The historical stories about Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and even Creation are all different in the Quran. Thanks for your help.

The accusation that the Scriptures are corrupt is because the Muslim Divines did not understand the Scriptures. They have made mistakes in their interpretations.

Baha’u’llah says that spiritual text does not get corrupted, but that by “corrupting of the text” what Muhammad is referring to in the Quran is people not understanding the text and teaching misunderstandings of the text.

It a danger we all face, if we try to interpret scriptures, we don't have the authority to interpret, only the Messengers do and to some who they pass the authority on to.

Regards Tony

 

[muhammad_isa]

Want me to move this thread to the Christian forum, @muhammad_isa ? It seems to be all about Christian apologetics and not about Islam.

I'll leave it to your own judgment .. perhaps Abrahamic religion?

 

[TheLightWithin]

There is only one correct interpretation when it comes to Scripture.

And yet multiple interpretations abound. Who is correct?

 

[RJM]

The apocrypha are considered deuterocanonical books and were not accepted by the Jews into their scriptures. It doesn't matter about other texts, they are not included in the Bible. Those texts are historical in nature when it comes to the Jews, but they are Jewish text, you would have to ask a Jew as to why they are not included. As far as the New Testament, they predated it and none of those texts are quoted in the New Testament.

We have an extensive library of New Testament apocrypha here: https://www.interfaith.org/christianity/apocrypha/

The Catholic Bible contains several books or sections of books that were discarded from the King James Bible, and Orthodox and Ethiopian Bibles contain other books too

 

[juantoo3]

The King James has books that were discarded from the King James... and not for any official reasons.

The apocrypha are considered deuterocanonical books and were not accepted by the Jews into their scriptures.

1-4 Maccabees pretty well marks this comment as incorrect, particularly since this is celebrated every year as Hanukkah

 

[Faithfulservant]

From what I understand the apocrypha were written in the 400 silent years between Malachi and the birth of John the Baptist. It is believed no divinely inspired prophetic utterance was made in this time.