Exclusive Bible

[Thinking required]

There is a lot of conversation when it comes to Bibles, or I should say Books from God. Jews have Books, Christians have Books, Muslims have a Book, Mormons have a Book and Jehovah Witnesses have a Book. Each of the Books claim exclusivity. Would God make give us a Book that was for only one group of people, meaning it the book is written in Spanish, could only the Spanish speaking people understand it.? I am not sure how many on this site have research translation of language or used interpreters. The reason I ask, is that I am once again reading the Quran and the flow of the English translation is terrible. I have been to that the Arabic reading is beautiful.

Since I don't understand Arabic, then I don't know what to think. Some of the Bible was also written in poetry form (I am assuming that the Quran was written that away, maybe for the ease of learning and reciting it, as I have also been told that the Quran was not to be written, but recited only. It never came into a book form until after the death of Muhammad. Anyway, All language is translational and can retain meaning in the translation. Sometimes not the exact thrust of the word or language but close enough so that it can be understood. The Hebrew texts of the Bible were translated @300BC into Greek. In the time of Jesus, I have read where many people spoke 3 languages.

This is not even uncommon in Europe today, at least two languages. The Christians letters were mostly written in Greek as that was the more common language of the day in that area. If translation is possible and God is concerned with all people, why limit a written text to just one group of people who speak one language. I say this to say that I have been told, a person has to read the Arabic Quran to understand it. Even though so much of it is just about stories and information that already exist in the Jewish Scriptures.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..If translation is possible and God is concerned with all people, why limit a written text to just one group of people who speak one language. I say this to say that I have been told, a person has to read the Arabic Quran to understand it..

Literal translations are just that .. literal translations.

In order to understand something, we need a background .. a context.
The more we study something, with the right intention, the more likely that we will
understand it.

Religion is like that .. we need to practice it, in order to increase our faith, and understand.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

The reason I ask, is that I am once again reading the Quran and the flow of the English translation is terrible. I have been to that the Arabic reading is beautiful.

Since I don't understand Arabic, then I don't know what to think.

To simply read the Quran, I recommend you the translation of Talal Itani., which comes in a readable English without unnecessary interpretation For details, you may use the views of a detailed view.

 

[Thinking required]

Literal translations are just that .. literal translations.

In order to understand something, we need a background .. a context.
The more we study something, with the right intention, the more likely that we will
understand it.

Religion is like that .. we need to practice it, in order to increase our faith, and understand.

Literal? So a Word of Word or thought for thought can’t be translated accurately. Yes, I will agree, there needs to be context and understanding of background. Right and Wrong never change, God is unchanging, People are unchanging. So why can’t I understand sin from an English translation of the Quran.
“Practice” religion? How about I just do what is right!
Faith does not come from practicing a religion, Faith comes from believing what God has said. The Quran throws around the word Faith a lot, but as I can see never explains it. But the Bible clearly explains Faith.

Hebrews 11:1 (NASB95): Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Assurance of things hoped for, that is what God has said. Conviction or evidence of things that we did not see. God dealing in the OT. Faith = I know for certain the I can believe God and what He has said by what He has done.

 

[Thinking required]

To simply read the Quran, I recommend you the translation of Talal Itani., which comes in a readable English without unnecessary interpretation For details, you may use the views of a detailed view

Here is the problem, I have been told over and over that the translations are not the Quran and therefore reading a translation is not reading the Quran. I believe it has something to do with Muslims believing that the Quran is actually Allah. They is why they kill of destroying the Quran and saying anything bad about it. Remember the entire mess over the Satanic Verses?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Faith does not come from practicing a religion

I think it does..
If we act righteously, our souls are affected.
If we commit sins, without asking for forgiveness, our souls are affected.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I have been told over and over that the translations are not the Quran and therefore reading a translation is not reading the Quran..

That is a generalisation .. perhaps give an example, where you are having difficulty
with the translation/interpretation?

 

[wil]

Some of the Bible was also written in poetry form

Not English thou eh? Koine, Aramaic, or Hebrew poetry.....anything found poetic in English is definitely something you need to search to see how the translation was adjusted for rhyme or meter.

Also the idioms from.thoussnds of years ago we miss. I swear if it was written that Goliath was bigger than a barn pr it was raining cats and dogs literalists today would swear it was a fact (like the Virgin/young woman/unbetrothed discussion)

I also find it interesting the honophibic folks who swear by the KJV ignoring King James was bisexual and unconcerned by "his" version.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

Here is the problem, I have been told over and over that the translations are not the Quran and therefore reading a translation is not reading the Quran. I believe it has something to do with Muslims believing that the Quran is actually Allah. They is why they kill of destroying the Quran and saying anything bad about it. Remember the entire mess over the Satanic Verses?

In contrast to the Gospel where all Jesus said is translated into Greek, the Quran is reported in its original language (even if the original Arabic of the time was very deficient). Not all can be translated, in particular the lyric Surat. It's of course ideal to be able to read it in Arabic but if you can't, a good translation is the best.


I firmly reject the violence and intolerance of the Islamists. Many of them don't even respect Sharia although they claim it to be their base. I mean the Ayatollah's regime in particular, who kill as they want although death penalty is firmly restricted to three precise acts.
Of course, destroying a Quran is an unacceptable affront.

 

[Thinking required]

f we act righteously, our souls are affected.
If we commit sins, without asking for forgiveness, our souls are affected.

You certainly can believe what you like. I disagree, my soul has nothing to do with Faith, Faith is about believing. Maybe you are thinking more about how secure you feel if you try to do more good than bad. That’s what happens when religion is based on works.

 

[Thinking required]

That is a generalisation .. perhaps give an example, where you are having difficulty
with the translation/interpretation?

Extreme repetition and stories that jump all over the place. Moses is born and then the next verse states he killed a man. Jesus is born and then he speaks to Mary. And you would call the trinity illogical. Allah seems intent on boasting about himself all through the texts about how great he is. I can’t hardly figure out who is suppose to be speaking. I thought the entire Quran was dictated to Muhammad, yet there are times when Allah is quoting people, and there seems to be times when Muhammad is speaking. Why all the crazy pronouns, the same verse might us, We, Him, He and so on. I have looked at several different translations and even some commentaries.

 

[Thinking required]

also find it interesting the honophibic folks who swear by the KJV ignoring King James was bisexual and unconcerned by "his" version.

Don’t think there are many of those folks left. The KJV only was just a stupid argument.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I disagree, my soul has nothing to do with Faith, Faith is about believing.

..and don't you think that faith is a gift from God?
..or do you think that a person has faith through their own merit?

Do the scriptures teach that God blesses those that work inequities? No.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Extreme repetition and stories that jump all over the place..

It is organised in such a manner that it feeds us spiritually.
..you still have not referred to any particular verses that you find troublesome..

 

[Thinking required]

In contrast to the Gospel where all Jesus said is translated into Greek, the Quran is reported in its original language (even if the original Arabic of the time was very deficient). Not all can be translated, in particular the lyric Surat. It's of course ideal to be able to read it in Arabic but if you can't, a good translation is the best.

How do you know the Jesus didn’t speak Greek? Jesus told his disciples that the Holy Spirit would bring everything into rememberance that needed to be written down. Not so with Luke and Mark, they researched for their Books. The Scriptures are inspired by God. There is a lot of confusion when it comes to the Quran, this comes from Muslim sources. The Quran does not flow, it jumps all over the place.

 

[Thinking required]

and don't you think that faith is a gift from God?
..or do you think that a person has faith through their own merit?

Do the scriptures teach that God blesses those that work inequities? No.

Scriptures says that Faith is a gift from God, the ability to believe. But there are texts which also say; “your Faith”. How many times do we read where Jesus says to someone, ”your Faith” “has made you well”. It’s not as clear as we would like it to be. It’s interesting when it comes to God blessing or not blessing someone. Scriptures says that God disciplines those He loves, and says that we will face many trials. There is no “health, wealth and prosperity“ in the text of the NT. It’s more about “You will be hated for my sake”. Our works do not determine anything here, we will be judged after we die.

 

[Thinking required]

It is organised in such a manner that it feeds us spiritually.
..you still have not referred to any particular verses that you find troublesome..

No, it’s organized from longest Sura to shortest Sura. Not sure if the first Sura can even be attributed to Allah. Tell me how all the Jewish stories of Noah, Abraham, Moses feed you Spiritually. They don’t even agree with the Jewish Scriptures.
How about all the verses that claim that not only Christians but Jews make partners to God. Jews certain were guilty of Idols. But Christians never went down that road. Christians have never made “partners” to God.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

How do you know the Jesus didn’t speak Greek? Jesus told his disciples that the Holy Spirit would bring everything into rememberance that needed to be written down. Not so with Luke and Mark, they researched for their Books. The Scriptures are inspired by God. There is a lot of confusion when it comes to the Quran, this comes from Muslim sources. The Quran does not flow, it jumps all over the place.

Jesus probably knew some Greek but he didn't teach in Greek but in Hebrew and Aramaic.
For the rest, that is what you believe, which I don't share.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Scriptures says that Faith is a gift from God, the ability to believe..

Right .. and we would not expect God to treat the wicked the same as the righteous.

That is not to say, that a wicked person might not repent, and be forgiven, naturally.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No, it’s organized from longest Sura to shortest Sura. Not sure if the first Sura can even be attributed to Allah. Tell me how all the Jewish stories of Noah, Abraham, Moses feed you Spiritually. They don’t even agree with the Jewish Scriptures.
How about all the verses that claim that not only Christians but Jews make partners to God. Jews certain were guilty of Idols. But Christians never went down that road. Christians have never made “partners” to God.

You seem to be suffering an "us against them" type of disease.
It is no different from Christianity, in the sense that the one who "knocks", will receive..
..but we cannot receive when we have a prejudice .. when we dislike what we are being taught.

It is no different to those sinners who argue against God in the Bible, because they dislike
what it teaches i.e. they desire to sin