Celtic vs Saxon DNA

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by brian, Jun 30, 2003.

  1. peaceandkarma

    peaceandkarma New Member

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    I've read that the Jutes that settled on the Isle of Wight massacred the Celts there. The Anglo Saxons also used the same word to discribe both a Celt and a Slave, so if you wanted to get on with your new masters you had to become more Germanic and live the way they lived. I think they all inter married and become who we are today. Make love not war has to be an old idea.
     
  2. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    I thought Celtic beat Saxon DNA in an earlier round and had drawn Hibs in the quarter finals?
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Quite the interesting thread brought up from the depths by a spammer...

    What's not to like.

    Now the question...DNA

    There has been all sorts of conjecture about the twelve tribes of Israel, and I've heard the Celts referred to in the mix as a potential 'lost tribe'.

    First any thoughts on that, and second it anyone using DNA analysis to try to determine who has got some of the 12 tribe blood?

    I know they've been doing these studies to find out to everyone's surprise that white folks got some black blood, and black folks got some white blood, and folks that like to claim X% native american actually aren't such....but has anyone been researching how far and wide those tribes made it and how much Jew we got in us?

    And no, that was an actual thought and not a lead in to some joke...
     
  4. mojobadshah

    mojobadshah Interfaith Forums

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    What are the chances the Anglo-Saxons were already a mixed tribe of Germanic peoples and Celts?

    Maybe the Saxons and the Scots were not descendants of Isaac, but Scythians and the Picts were Pactyians or Pashtuns. Apparently the Pashtuns are into body art too. Maybe there is a connection between the Celts and the Chaldeans. Charles Vallancy seemed to think so according to his A Vindication of Ancient the Ancient History of Ireland
     
  5. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    A near certainty, really: "Saxony" had previously been Celtic territory before Germanics migrated that way, and ancient migrations really did not consist of thorough genocide of the previous natives followed by total replacement, but rather always an admixture.
    Most certainly not! That is the kind of nonsense that I wish you would please get out of your head.
    Since "Scots" and "Scyths" (name originally pronounced something like Skut) are both Indo-Europeans (NOT Semites), it is quite possible those tribal names are ultimately from the same root (I do not know the root or its meaning). But you mustn't imagine Scyths migrating to the British Isles: rather the relationship would be that both were descended from a much more ancient common ancestor. A connection between "Pict" and "Pakhtun" (source of Pashtun before the centum/s'atam shift I discussed on the other thread) is quite possible as well (but again, nobody migrated from Afghanistan to the British Isles).
    The Romans took "Pict" to be like their root (as in English picture) for "to pain"; and that could indeed be the root-meaning in both "Pict" and "Pakhtun"; another possibility is that it was the root for "agreement; league" as in Latin pactum, source of English "pact".
    No. That is just another version of the tendency for everybody to want ancestors in the Middle East during Biblical times.
     
  6. Sam Albion

    Sam Albion akaFrancisKing:ViveLeRoi!

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    Hahahaha...

    Heebies fans beware! The Huns may send you funny parcels, too...!
     
  7. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    "to paint" of course I meant; didn't see the typo until after the Edit deadline

    I should also add that the two theories put forth about the meaning of "Pict" or "Pakhtun", that they are from the "picture" root referring to body-painting, or that they are from the "pact" root referring to some agreement to form a league, are not necessarily mutually exclusive: it could be that the way proto-Indo-Europeans formed a "pact" (joined a "gang") was to make a "picture" (putting it in a proto-writing somehow), e.g. by tattooing the new gang "colors" on their skin, so that it was permanently memorialized that they had joined together.
     
  8. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    Yes, it's getting beyond moronic.
     
  9. mojobadshah

    mojobadshah Interfaith Forums

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    What about the Parthian Scythians that Hadrian sent to build Hadrians wall? And what about the a Sarmation Scythian connection to the legend of King Arthur?
     
  10. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

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    Certainly would not be surprising - while people tend to think of the Celts as being Britain's ancient people, really they were relative newcomers.

    There was already an established and highly organised people in Britain, who built Stonehenge, long before the Celts arrived.

    Unfortunately I think little is known, but I seem to recall they are identified as migrating from central europe, and also had trade connections with central europe as well.
     
  11. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    Both of these are news to me: please elaborate.
     
  12. mojobadshah

    mojobadshah Interfaith Forums

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    I must have confused the Parthians with the Mithra worshippers of the Roman military who Hadrian employed to build his famous Hadrian's Wall in England. Scythians known as Sarmations or Alans, however, were employed in the Roman military and in From Scythia to Camelot the authors put forth that the King Arthur legend was derived from the Nart Sagas of these Scythians which have been preserved among the Ossetions and other people of the Caucuses.

    I have actually read a few different versions of these Nart Sagas and came across something that Mithra enthusiasts may find interesting. The main figure in the Nart Sagas is sort of superman known as Sasruquo and he is said to have been born from a rock that was inseminated by a Shepherd. I know on other threads Bob X has pointed out that the Mithra born from a rock myth is a fabrication, but the Nart Sagas is probably where this idea came from.
     
  13. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    "Sarmatian" and "Alan" are quite different. The Sarmatians were the Slavic-speaking peasantry (a major tribe of theirs for example called themselves Iazyg, compare Polish or Russian yazik "tongue, language"; the meaning is "the people who know how to talk right" as opposed to nemets "deaf-mute, foreigner-- especially, German" which is "the people who don't know how to talk" like Greek barbaros "stutterer, foreigner"). The Alans were the survivors of the aristocratic "Royal Scyth" class (Iranian-speaker) after the Sarmatians rebelled and overthrew their rule; Alans are thought to be ancestral to the modern Ossetes.
    I have heard that they are interesting, but I have not read them. However, it is not at all unusual to find common plot-elements in folk-tales from all over the place, and it is hard to tell when we are dealing with independent invention (since people do think alike, in all times and places) and when we have a regional diffusion of the ideas. To believe that there was diffusion from the Caucasus I would need to see what the intermediate contacts were. Also, since Ossetian was not well recorded until quite recently, even if there was diffusion it could have been in the opposite direction.
    The "rock" from which Mithra sprang was of metaphysical significance, like the "Cosmic Egg" in the Orphic mysteries or the "Big Bang Singularity" in the modern scientific mythos or the "Primordial Chaos": it represented the original undifferentiated Matter from which everything was formed (Mithra formed first).

    The Nart version, in which the cosmological point is completely lost, would look rather like a very late garbling, than like the source.
     
  14. castleman

    castleman Interfaith Forums

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    Hi,
    I have written a facebook page detailing Anglo Saxon history so that everyone can easily understand this part of our history, labelled the "Dark Ages". I find it very hard to believe how these scientists were able to test an entire population's D.N.A. and then to establish that we are in fact related to these Celts instead of the Saxons! A B.B.C. programme tested many people at random and found that they were related to the Saxons, but they found that if your family history originated from Devon or Cornwall then there'd be the likelihood that you had Celtic ancestry! I believe that this is a tactic by the Govt. to stop our beliefs that we have any connections with northern Germany and surrounding regions known as Old Saxony! These regions recognise their history and so are a constant threat for future uprisings and the only way to convince Brits to never join is to confuse them with this belief that they are Celtic!
    The region known as Friesland, uses a language that is very similar to old English and their people possess facial characteristics that are very similar to English people, so how can we all be more Celtic than Saxons? Also, our ability to fight to defend is inherited from Saxons and German people possess this, but is this a trait of Celtic people from Ireland? Also, the Vikings had communities in Dublin etc so can we assume that many Celts are in fact Danes?
    My facebook Anglo Saxon page is a very good starting point to understand our history and it also uncovers the fact that, even if we were all Celts or even from planet Mars, our language and way of life today have all been more influenced by those Saxons then anyone else! The Normans influenced the language in a small way and brought in ideas about our legal system and our Royal Family; The Roman's merely built roads and never sought to mix with those early Britons; but it was the Saxons who defended these shores against invaders, allowed Christianity to begin here and brought with them the forerunner of the English language, among other things!
     

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