Oppenheimer

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I just saw Oppenheimer today. It was in my opinion an outstanding movie, and it struck me as ripe for religious/theological analysis and discussion. I was a bit disappointed by the lack of representation of Oppenheimer's spiritual interests (there was a little, but not much) but I loved the scene where he quotes from the Bhagavad Gita while testing the atom bomb. I would very much like to hear what you guys thought of the film, especially in relation to the moral issues it brings up.
 
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I would also like to share what a personal hero of mine, Bishop Barron, thought of the film. This wasn't his most insightful critique of a film to be honest, he usually is really good at bringing a theological understanding to media, but I thought I'd post it nonetheless.

 
It's interesting, and there's a lot of media interest being whipped up about it.

Have you read the discussions regarding the text, translations and context?

I'll wait until someone else better informed comes in ...
 
Have you read the discussions regarding the text, translations and context?

No, I haven't really! Do you mean about the Bhagavad Gita? I read a little bit about the context of the "Now I am become death" quote, but I would like to read the text in its entirety, because I never have and I've heard its a very very influential and beloved text in Hinduism.
 
I saw a meme which referred to being Oppenheimer in the street and Barbie in the sheets...and the movie implied Oppenheimer got a lot more done in the sheets than a Barbie without genitalia.

Idk how much a philanderer he was but the movie implied marriage did not mean a lot to him...

The thing about the movie to me...i was stuck on robt Downey Jr....all I could see was groucho!
 
I just watched a good documentary that some here may be interested in. It's on BBC IPlayer
Here's the introduction:


J Robert Oppenheimer was one of the most celebrated scientists of his generation. Shy, arrogant and brilliant, he is best known as the man that led the Manhattan Project to spectacular success.

As the years progressed he also grew into a scientific statesman, leading a government agency, the Atomic Energy Commission, which was trying to develop ways to avoid a nuclear arms race. His attempts at politics, though, were a lot less successful than his scientific endeavours. As he grew more powerful, he started to make serious enemies amongst the establishment, particularly a friend of President Truman's - Lewis Strauss.

This film tells the extraordinary story of the rise and fall of Robert Oppenheimer. David Straithairn, whose previous recreation of this era in Good Night and Good Luck was Oscar-nominated, plays Oppenheimer trying to defend himself as he was effectively put on trial for being a communist. Re-creation is mixed with expert testimony from a definitive range of commentators, ranging from Oppenheimer's Manhattan Project colleagues to academics like Martin Sherwin and Priscilla MacMillan.

Narrated by Zoe Wanamaker, whose own father experienced the virulent anti-communism of McCarthyism first-hand, it weaves Oppenheimer's biography with the dramatic events of his trial and its tragic aftermath. Emotional and compelling, it is a film that, in a time when non-proliferation is firmly back on the agenda, tells us a lot about the perils of mixing science and government. Less
 
It's interesting, and there's a lot of media interest being whipped up about it.

Have you read the discussions regarding the text, translations and context?

I'll wait until someone else better informed comes in ...

The Bagavad Gita is a part of a larger writing, The Mahabarata(The Great War).

The BG is a conversation between a fighter(Arjuna) and his charioteer(Krishna), Krishna being the incarnation of Vishnu, the Supreme Being(God).
Arjuna is questioning the justice of the war, particularly because he has relatives on both sides and feels bad about having to kill.
The quote comes rom Chapter 11, verse 32.
The translation I am using says "I am time the destroyer of all, I have come to consume the world. All the warriors gathered here will die.
33. Therefore arise, Arjuna; conquer your enemies and enjoy the glory of sovereignty. I have already slain all these warriors; you will only be my instrument."

As I understand it, Krishna is telling Arjuna to just do his duty by playing his given part.

NB Re: Oppenheimer knew Sanskrit(I do not), so I suspect his translation is correct. I couldn't find it after looking at several English versions. Hopefully @Aupmanyav will comment.
 
Idk how much a philanderer he was but the movie implied marriage did not mean a lot to him...

Yeah, that was clear. Apparently that's an accurate depiction of how he treated his wife unfortunately! He was very morally ambiguous in general.
 
As I understand it, Krishna is telling Arjuna to just do his duty by playing his given part.

That's my understanding as well, from what I've read. Apparently Oppenheimer also thought of this Bhagavad Gita quote during the bomb testing (per the Wikipedia article on him):

If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky,
that would be like the splendor of the mighty one.
 
That's my understanding as well, from what I've read. Apparently Oppenheimer also thought of this Bhagavad Gita quote during the bomb testing (per the Wikipedia article on him):

If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky,
that would be like the splendor of the mighty one.
The whole book is worth a read. It's not very long.
There are loads of translations into English.
The first one I read was the Penguin version which is just the text translation without comments, leaving the reader to form their own opinion. (IMO :>))
 
I recently lost my first gita...handed to me by a Hare krishna devotee in the airport in the 70s

The Hare Krishna are another group I find so interesting and yet know nothing about it. I know they used to hang around the airport here too, which is an interesting place for evangelization.
 
I saw a meme which referred to being Oppenheimer in the street and Barbie in the sheets...and the movie implied Oppenheimer got a lot more done in the sheets than a Barbie without genitalia.

Idk how much a philanderer he was but the movie implied marriage did not mean a lot to him...

The thing about the movie to me...i was stuck on robt Downey Jr....all I could see was groucho!
I have heard about people associating Oppenheimer with Barbie because of the two movies coming out at the same time.
I hadn't heard that anything in the Oppenheimer movie in any way referred to Barbie. That would be quite a coincidence.
 
The Hare Krishna are another group I find so interesting and yet know nothing about it. I know they used to hang around the airport here too, which is an interesting place for evangelization.
Yeah that was a thing in the 70s at least. I don't know how long they were at it though.
Any place that collects a large number of people passing through would be attractive to evangelists.
 
That's my understanding as well, from what I've read. Apparently Oppenheimer also thought of this Bhagavad Gita quote during the bomb testing (per the Wikipedia article on him):

If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky,
that would be like the splendor of the mighty one.
Was he seeing that as poetic, or prophetic?
 
32. "I am time the destroyer of all, I have come to consume the world. All the warriors gathered here will die.
33. Therefore arise, Arjuna; conquer your enemies and enjoy the glory of sovereignty. I have already slain all these warriors; you will only be my instrument."

NB Re: Oppenheimer knew Sanskrit(I do not), so I suspect his translation is correct. I couldn't find it after looking at several English versions. Hopefully @Aupmanyav will comment.
Aup's translation:
32. "I am time, the great destroyer of the worlds. I am engaged in destroying all people here. Except you, none of the soldiers on the opposite side will exist in future."
33. "Therefore, you stand up and fight for glory, conquer your enemies and enjoy a flourishing kingdom. They have already been killed by my wish. O Arjuna, you only need to be the instrument."

Krishna does not say in these verses that he is the Supreme Lord of the universe. He says that he is 'time'. Surely 'time' destroys all people and all worlds. BhagawadGita is as great pep-talk to encourage people to act and not hesitate in performance of one's duties, 'dharma'. And it is deterministic. Krishna says at another place: "Karmani eva adhikarah te, ma phaleshu kadachana" (Your right extends only to perform action, and never to its results). Even after doing everything well, you may not get desired results, because the results depend on so many other variables. So, find happiness only in the performance of your duty.
 
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I recently lost my first gita...handed to me by a Hare krishna devotee in the airport in the 70s
Buy a copy of Gita from Gita Press, Gorakhpur - authentic translation, my first Gita.
A good one co-authored by Annie Besant is here: https://www.yogastudies.org/wp-content/uploads/besantgita.pdf
A good one here too: https://library.um.edu.mo/ebooks/b17771201.pdf, and here: https://www.hinduwebsite.com/chapters.asp
I have the Hare-Krishna Gita as a book mark, but I can see through the wrong translations.
https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/
 
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Aup's translation:
32. "I am time, the great destroyer of the worlds. I am engaged in destroying all people here. Except you, none of the soldiers on the opposite side will exist in future."
33. "Therefore, you stand up and fight for glory, conquer your enemies and enjoy a flourishing kingdom. They have already been killed by my wish. O Arjuna, you only need to be the instrument."
I prefer this translation – it contextualises the meaning.

Poor old Oppo was understandably a bit taken aback by what he saw ... hardly surprising he'd look at it his way ...
 
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