There is no proof of God ...

[Aupmanyav]

You believe your parents to be more Ape, and your children to be more Human than you.

If evolution drives the strongest to survive, why do we still have death.
Natural selection should have ensured by now that the workings of the cell would have selected the mechanisms to never age during rejuvenation and replication.

On the other hand, Genesis claims God created man as an immortal being covered in light. (image of God and they did not know they were naked)
That could not age, die, get sick etc.

The change does not take place so fast. It took 63 million years from being a haplorini (dry-nosed apes) to being a human.

Timeline of human evolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I never said anything about more human or less human. We are governed by self-interest unless out behavior is modified by family and society.
Our descendants of far future also will be like that, and family and society will modify their behavior to match the requirements of the day.

Haplorhini

A machine has a life time. The DNA and parts of body also makes mistakes in their life. So, death is inevitable in most life forms.
Evolution has ensured continuation of the species barring catastrophic events (like a huge asteroid striking the earth). That is what it is concerned with. What happens to an individual is of no concern to life. One goes, many come. Look at the Salmon.

I am sure you believe that Adam lived for 930 years even after the fall.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

I agr

I agree, the story that a frog could turn into a prince is a fairy-tale at best.
Or is it the amoba.. ape... whats that story again?

The story is that there is some form of external deity to which homo sapiens in all our neurotic behavior (after all we are simply animals) invented, venerates/worships, and allows others to create fantasy tales that are enforced through politics/government. There is much more to life than this abomination.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Obviously you don't understand anything about God, the intricate composition of cells, the fact that there can never spontaneously develop life out of primordial soup.
I was an atheist before pal. Until l learned how stupid Evolution is.
I then stumbled upon Genesis one in Emanuel Kant's nebular theory, and firsthand saw the predicament of scientists who say they have the answer. They have zero.
I read them all.
Tested them all, and the Bible is the only explanation that gets it correct..
You want to talk about creation with me for fun, we can always do it on a thread where we can explore the origin of the Universe, Evolution and the different scriptures such as the Bible, Quran, Gita, Upanishad, Book of the dead and even your scientific evolutionist's writings, such as the silly book of Hawkins where he claims Gravity is his god.

Start quoting actual statements from your heroes. If you can prove the existence of a God, then you would be the first.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If you can prove the existence of a God, then you would be the first.

It's a personal thing..
..it's enough to prove it to yourself .. you are responsible for you.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It's a personal thing..
..it's enough to prove it to yourself .. you are responsible for you.

It is not really a personal thing. Followers of religions have fought each other; looted, murdered, maimed, raped their adversaries in all history.
Religion is the greatest enemy of peace on earth.

 

[muhammad_isa]

It is not really a personal thing. Followers of religions have fought each other; looted, murdered, maimed, raped their adversaries in all history.
Religion is the greatest enemy of peace on earth.

No .. it's the love of wealth and power that corrupts .. and not religion.
Are communism and fascism religions? .. politics.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

It's a personal thing..
..it's enough to prove it to yourself .. you are responsible for you.

You mean "it's a subjective thing", gods, devils, angels, and demons are simply archetypal structures that we use or don't.

 

[RJM]

... gods, devils, angels, and demons are simply achetypal structures that we use or don''t.

Nothing happens that I don't sign-off on?

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Nothing happens that I don't sign-off on?

Not sure what that means . . .

 

[Aupmanyav]

Nothing happens that I don't sign-off on?

Things happen just the same way whether we sign-in or sign-off or not.

"Even if karma is denied, God still cannot be the enforcer of consequences. Because the motives of an enforcer God would be either egoistic or altruistic. Now, God's motives cannot be assumed to be altruistic because an altruistic God would not create a world so full of suffering. If his motives are assumed to be egoistic, then God must be thought to have desire, as agency or authority cannot be established in the absence of desire. However, assuming that God has desire would contradict God's eternal freedom which necessitates no compulsion in actions. Moreover, desire, according to Samkhya, is an attribute of prakṛiti and cannot be thought to grow in God. The testimony of the Vedas, according to Samkhya, also confirms this notion."
One of the arguments against existence of God: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samkhya#Arguments_against_Ishvara's_existence

 

[RJM]

Not sure what that means . . .

Well, you're saying I (potentially) have power over the gods and angels and so on -- the spiritual entities and forces? My fate is in my own hands? The choice is my own?

Things happen just the same way whether we sign-in or sign-off or not.

You do not believe that whatever happens to me, is the result of my own choices and actions? The last act is always my own?

 

[Aupmanyav]

You do not believe that whatever happens to me, is the result of my own choices and actions? The last act is always my own?

What happens to an individual human, animal, tree, stone, is of no relevance to the way universe works.

 

[RJM]

What happens to an individual human, animal, tree, stone, is of no relevance to the way universe works.

Ok. But it's about how much power I have over the working of the universe -- at least my own little patch? Obviously mankind has quite a lot of power to direct the course of events within the area of material experience -- by diverting rivers and so on.

Does this extend to being able to make use of 'conceptual' archetypal structures such as gods, devils, angels, and demons, as suggested by @'Amir Alzzalam?

 

[RJM]

Just to state my own position: I believe in submission and humility as the way of spirit.

Spoiler: Proverbs 3:5-7

Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge him,
And he shall direct your paths.
Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and depart from evil.
Proverbs 3:5-7

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ok. But it's about how much power I have over the working of the universe -- at least my own little patch? Obviously mankind has quite a lot of power to direct the course of events within the area of material experience -- by diverting rivers and so on.

The universe does not care about that. It can wipe out what we have done in one wave / fire / tremor / explosion / impact or a virus, which we cannot even see with naked eyes.

 

[RJM]

The universe does not care about that. It can wipe out what we have done in one wave / fire / tremor / explosion / impact or a virus, which we cannot even see with naked eyes.

And yet all parts of the universe are intimately interlinked. Gravity affects all. Quarks and electrons etc, constitute all matter. It is all the same basic energy.

What happens to me affects the whole?

 

[Aupmanyav]

You are correct there. If you raise your hand, the whole universe trembles (however slightly).
This is because you are none other than Brahman (Tat twam asi, Chandogya Upanishad - known to us since 600 BCE).

 

[RJM]

You are correct there. If you raise your hand, the whole universe trembles (however slightly).
This is because you are none other than Brahman (Tat twam asi, Chandogya Upanishad - known to us since 600 BCE).

The Earth is a living thing. The universe is alive, imo

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Ok. But it's about how much power I have over the working of the universe -- at least my own little patch? Obviously mankind has quite a lot of power to direct the course of events within the area of material experience -- by diverting rivers and so on.

Does this extend to being able to make use of 'conceptual' archetypal structures such as gods, devils, angels, and demons, as suggested by @'Amir Alzzalam?

Always best to use the archetype instead of the archetype using you . . . imo

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Earth is a living thing. The universe is alive, imo

Every sub-atomic particle in the universe (if one takes it that way) is alive and eternal.