I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses

I suggest you stop copy and paste links from the JW Org for me to go and read.
I can copy paste many links to counter your links.
I want to see if you have the ability to notice that the JW Org has a huge flaw in their story of salvation, or if there is some explanation on this topic which I perhaps missed out on their publications.
You said just about nothing.
You ignore the fact that the Bible speaks of many people who are dead, yet living.
You ignore the description of Jesus where the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16: 19- 31 were living spirits in the kingdom of Heaven speaking, being conscious, but not in flesh and blood. (I know the JW Org tries to get out of this predicament by saying it was only a parable, but they fail to explain the parable without admitting these people are in the kingdom of death in spirit without flesh and blood.)

It is you who challenged everyone in your first post, that you will answer any question asked about the JW organisation.

Well, I am asking you!
The JW Org failed since 1985 to answer me.
Do you want to be on my long list of failed Jehovahs' too?

Now, tell me if I am lying on these points.
1. JW's say you dont have a Spirit.
2. JW's say flesh and bone can not enter Heaven.
3. JW's say there will be / are 144 000 people in heaven with God.

Am I lying?

Then answer this simple question.
What stuff of the human here on Earth will be present in Heaven?
My Mind, My Spirit, a cell, a hair...

You can call a friend, but you must answer.
No copy paste.
 
walter said:
Romans 6:9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. NIV

14 Anointed ones who today finish their earthly course are instantly raised to life in the heavens. This is confirmed by Paul’s words recorded at
1 Corinthians 15:51, 52: “We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” These words of Paul are now undergoing fulfillment! Upon their resurrection, these brothers of Christ will have complete joy; they will “always be with the Lord.”—1 Thess. 4:17. See link below for scriptures which explain:

“How Are the Dead to Be Raised Up?” WHAT SORT OF BODY?

Animals and Humans all have but one spirit. Or breath.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit.

The same word is translated breath or spirit.
Psalm 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; In that very day his thoughts perish. ASV

Psalm 146:4 When his spirit leaves him, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts and plans perish. AMP
biblehub.com

Psalm 146:4 - Praise the LORD, O My Soul

When his spirit departs, he returns to the ground; on that very day his plans perish.
biblehub.com

Do You Have an Immortal Spirit?

I tried my best to make it as short as possible, this is not an easy subject, and I am not the best to write about it. Thanks for your patience. 💖
Click to expand...
NS, It is not as you say, "not an easy subject..."on the contrary, it is very simple.
You have a Spirit within your body, and you have a mind within that Spirit.
If you die, it is only your flesh and bones that die!
Your spirit ends up in heaven or hell.

It becomes difficuilt if you try to dodge my question.
 
OupaPiet said:
I suggest you stop copy and paste links from the JW Org for me to go and read.
I can copy paste many links to counter your links.
I want to see if you have the ability to notice that the JW Org has a huge flaw in their story of salvation, or if there is some explanation on this topic which I perhaps missed out on their publications.
You said just about nothing.
You ignore the fact that the Bible speaks of many people who are dead, yet living.
You ignore the description of Jesus where the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16: 19- 31 were living spirits in the kingdom of Heaven speaking, being conscious, but not in flesh and blood. (I know the JW Org tries to get out of this predicament by saying it was only a parable, but they fail to explain the parable without admitting these people are in the kingdom of death in spirit without flesh and blood.)

It is you who challenged everyone in your first post, that you will answer any question asked about the JW organisation.

Well, I am asking you!
The JW Org failed since 1985 to answer me.
Do you want to be on my long list of failed Jehovahs' too?

Now, tell me if I am lying on these points.
1. JW's say you dont have a Spirit.
2. JW's say flesh and bone can not enter Heaven.
3. JW's say there will be / are 144 000 people in heaven with God.

Am I lying?

Then answer this simple question.
What stuff of the human here on Earth will be present in Heaven?
My Mind, My Spirit, a cell, a hair...

You can call a friend, but you must answer.
No copy paste.
Click to expand...
Sorry I tried my very best! If you look at the scriptures alone it should shed some light on the subject. Thank you and may peace be with you. 💖
 
walter said:
Sorry I tried my very best! If you look at the scriptures alone it should shed some light on the subject. Thank you and may peace be with you. 💖
Click to expand...
What it amounts to is (to me anyway) I wanna know what people think...what they believe. The link to what the institution writes is good as a starting point, or support...but eye want your words, your understanding.

Scriptures alone yield hundreds of Bible translations and thousands of denominations

My question for you would be how accepting are you of other beliefs? Other religions? Other Christian denominations?

Do you believe any of them will get any of the 144k slots?
 
wil said:
What it amounts to is (to me anyway) I wanna know what people think...what they believe. The link to what the institution writes is good as a starting point, or support...but eye want your words, your understanding.

Scriptures alone yield hundreds of Bible translations and thousands of denominations

My question for you would be how accepting are you of other beliefs? Other religions? Other Christian denominations?

Do you believe any of them will get any of the 144k slots?
Click to expand...
I try my best to think and believe in such a way that the Holy Scriptures help me direct my thinking and help me form my belief. I do have an opinion of course, but I kind of set it to the side. And form my line of reasoning collecting as many scriptures on the one subject.

OupaPiet says the question was simple, but for me it was very difficult and complex to explain scripturally, Why I used links is because there are too many scriptures to explain the answer, and the way they explained it on the website was very reasonable, and all the scriptures are there too! I look at other people's websites everyday. I don't refuse or shy away from looking at other people's websites!

But after looking at all the scriptures, this is what I think and believe. The Bible says the soul that is sinning will die, animals and humans all have the same spirit or breath that keeps them alive, and humans and animals are are all going to the same place back to the dust, the Bible says at death your thinking ability dies too, Jesus talks about a resurrection of the dead, Jesus says several times the resurrection is on the last day whenever that is, of the righteous and the unrighteous. Jesus also talks about a little flock that are going to be kings and priests in heaven.

How do I know if I am going to be resurrected when I die? I don't know. Here is one scripture I keep in mind, Matthew 28:19 Jesus says here to "observe all my commands", if I count them Jesus has over 50 commands in the gospels. I make Jesus words my rock, Jesus says, But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you., so this is what I try to put first in my life.
 
wil said:
My question for you would be how accepting are you of other beliefs? Other religions? Other Christian denominations?

Do you believe any of them will get any of the 144k slots?
Click to expand...
I love all people everywhere I don't care what religion they belong to! I don't judge anyone! If you want me to look up what the Bible says about the 144,000 I can look up the scriptures that apply? :) 💖 I just look for scriptures that sound important and try my best to do what it says.
 
Last edited:
wil said:
Scriptures alone yield hundreds of Bible translations and thousands of denominations
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100% so many Bibles differ in the wording. Say one person has 10 scriptures that prove a point and another person has 10 scriptures that prove an opposite point, this happens quite a lot of the time, so in the end you can't really prove anything!

So here's what I do, I take a subject and I go on the other religions or persons website and collect all the scriptures they use to form their belief, then I go on JW.org website and collect those scriptures, and I don't give up until all the scriptures from both websites agree and make sense 100%, this is not easy to do, but I have done it a few times. In the end there will be a couple of scriptures that will still disagree with the others, at that point I do some research into how that verse is translated in a hundred different Bibles, and I keep searching until I find wording that agrees with the majority scripture evidence I already have.

I consider the line of reasoning complete, when each and every scripture is included and valuable from both Websites.
 
Everyone may have, different favorite scriptures, different beliefs, different Holy scriptures. But we have many things in common, love for our Holy Scriptures and the comfort we receive from them, love for one another, friendship, kindness, joy and happiness we can share with one another. :) 💕 💖
 
Last edited:
walter said:
I agree with you 100% so many Bibles differ in the wording. Say one person has 10 scriptures that prove a point and another person has 10 scriptures that prove an opposite point, this happens quite a lot of the time, so in the end you can't really prove anything!
Click to expand...
Hi Walter.
First of all, I am not attempting to take you out of the JW's to make you a Christian. Please take note of that.
Secondly, I have an issue with the JW Org, not the JW's.
I found the Witnesses to be very kind and nice people that will do a lot for their neighbor.

I do however have an issue with the organisation when it comes to proselyte people to join the JW's with superficial "facts" to prove that they are somehow talking out of the mouth of God.
Anyone that pretend to speak as a prophet, MUST ADHERE TO THE TEST OF A PROPHET. This we find in Deut 18: 18- 22.
If anyone gives a prophecy and they pretend it is from God, they must be killed.
How do we know if the prophecy is from God?
If it does not happen, they are false prophets.

Now, I myself had the privilege to live in 1975 when the JW Org told people Jesus is coming and the world will come to an end. One of my friends, who when I was about 14 years old, his father sold all his possession and wanted to move in at the JW camp here where I stay in Krugersdorp South Africa. My friend told me that Jesus is coming and the world will be destroyed.

I, being a child, ran to my dad and told him this story. 2 days later my father spoke to Johnny, my friends' father, and asked him about this story.
He explained to my dad that he and his family will now move in at the JW's and wait for the end of the world.
My dad asked why was he selling all his possessions and house?
Johnny said he was going to give everything to the Bible and Tract society, for Jesus will provide of them all. He wont need the money.

My dad asked, now why would the JWOrg need the money?
Johnny could not answer. My dad advised to place the money in the bank, and if the world ends, so be it. But if it does not end, you will still be able to tend to your family.
They sold it all, and rented elsewhere and a year later Johnny visited my dad with a gift thanking him for the day he spoke to him.
He left the JW's, He was excommunicated and shunned as did the JW's did with people who refused to sent their children to study, taking on another employment, refusing to get more children, keeping their money etc...

What was interesting was the way the BT Society explained their false prophecy away. All of a sudden these people misunderstood the watchtower prediction. No one got their money back though.

Therefore, if this false prophet tells me there are only 144 000 people going to heaven, and the rest of us will have a mere 1 000 years of paradise on Earth, I want them to explain to me in simple terms how I can be one of the 144 000.
I dont settle for second place.
I want to be with God for eternity.
Therefore, I believe in Jesus who is God who came in the flesh, to give his mortal body to death, to be raised in spirit, to receive another immortal body of light, to raise to our Father in Heaven.

This is what I strive for, to be with God the Existence (Father), who has a Spirit, and a Mind (Word)
Greetings.
 
Last edited:
walter said:
I agree with you 100% so many Bibles differ in the wording. Say one person has 10 scriptures that prove a point and another person has 10 scriptures that prove an opposite point, this happens quite a lot of the time, so in the end you can't really prove anything!
Click to expand...
By The way.
In short there are only two Bibles once we work through the manuscripts.
The Sinaiticus and the Texus Receptus.
They are published in the following forms.
Sinaiticus: Anything with the word "New" in its name or sold as some bible with commentaries saying, "This Bible used the oldest extant manuscripts, or the Best Manuscripts" such as New World Translation, New International version, New King James Version, ESV, etc.
Texus Receptus which is the King James Version.

If you complain about the different "Wording" in the Bibles, it is because the Bible and Tract society changed the Wording" to diminish the divinity of Christ in the NWT. The Liberal Bibles, such as the NIV and NKJ are following manuscripts which id in contradiction with the teachings of the first Church Fathers, such as Ignatius, Polycarp, and the rest. They all used a manuscript that reflects the KJV wording.

It follows the teachings of the Disciples in the first century (up to 50 years after Jesus was crucified, as we can see in the references by the Church Fathers on the Didache, which was luckily discovered in 1873 and published in 1883.
This was however too late to have stopped the Wescot and Hort and Nesle Alland publication relying on the Sinaiticus.

Therefore, the New Versions of the NT, such as the NWT are based on Areanism, and not on the doctrine of the Trinity and divinity of Jesus.
Unfortunately the lie spread throughout the world that the New Translations are the Best, whilst the facts are clear, it is based on false doctrines.

Get the Didache, and you will find that the JW Org are sitting on a dung heap crowing a wake up call to falsehood.
Greetings.
 
OupaPiet said:
By The way.
In short there are only two Bibles once we work through the manuscripts.
The Sinaiticus and the Texus Receptus.
They are published in the following forms.
Sinaiticus: Anything with the word "New" in its name or sold as some bible with commentaries saying, "This Bible used the oldest extant manuscripts, or the Best Manuscripts" such as New World Translation, New International version, New King James Version, ESV, etc.
Texus Receptus which is the King James Version.

If you complain about the different "Wording" in the Bibles, it is because the Bible and Tract society changed the Wording" to diminish the divinity of Christ in the NWT. The Liberal Bibles, such as the NIV and NKJ are following manuscripts which id in contradiction with the teachings of the first Church Fathers, such as Ignatius, Polycarp, and the rest. They all used a manuscript that reflects the KJV wording.

It follows the teachings of the Disciples in the first century (up to 50 years after Jesus was crucified, as we can see in the references by the Church Fathers on the Didache, which was luckily discovered in 1873 and published in 1883.
This was however too late to have stopped the Wescot and Hort and Nesle Alland publication relying on the Sinaiticus.

Therefore, the New Versions of the NT, such as the NWT are based on Areanism, and not on the doctrine of the Trinity and divinity of Jesus.
Unfortunately the lie spread throughout the world that the New Translations are the Best, whilst the facts are clear, it is based on false doctrines.

Get the Didache, and you will find that the JW Org are sitting on a dung heap crowing a wake up call to falsehood.
Greetings.
Click to expand...

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6, Over 2,000 years ago.

Throughout history God has inspired prophets to live at the same time as many Kings of Israel lived, and many Kings made many mistakes.

Besides I focus on what the Bible actually says and I appreciate everything the Jehovah's Witnesses have done for me personally!
 
walter said:
Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6, Over 2,000 years ago.

Throughout history God has inspired prophets to live at the same time as many Kings of Israel lived, and many Kings made many mistakes.

Besides I focus on what the Bible actually says and I appreciate everything the Jehovah's Witnesses have done for me personally!
Click to expand...
The 2 verses you quoted has nothing to do with any prophecy given that were false.
Both was at a time where the Apostles still did not understand when and how Jesus will establish His kingdom.
Even at the arrest of Jesus did they not understand that Jesus was not to take over the ruling government. They saw all His wonders, and when they saw Him handed over and crucified, they were disheartened.
If it was me, I would have seen Jesus do things only God could do, then I would see Him being crucified!
Heck man, I would be the first to deny him as the Apostles did, and I would run away as they did.

However, if I were to meet Him 3 days later, see His glory, receive the Holy Ghost and be given the power of prophecy from God, I will die for my belief as did these apostles.
Now, there is not a single prophecy made by the Apostles THAT DID NOT HAPPEN!

They were filled with the power of God.

As for the Bible and Tract society, Jim Jones, Muhammad and Allah, David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles, Aum Shinrikyo,James Rawles and so on.

All these false prophets gave false prophecies, and can never be entertained as equals to the Apostles, Prophets of YHWH or Jesus.

Anyone giving a False prophet must be condemned.

Now, on the JW Org. They had more than 50 False Prophecies, and for anyone to even compare them with some words spoken by the Apostles, is a far fetches construction of deception.
Never, Never compare the Bible and Tract Society's false prophets with any of the Apostles of Jesus.
They gave their lives for the Truth!
 
Around 1980 I was 19 years old, my Dad owned a lumber yard and said I could build a little house in the back 5 acres, So I am working on my house and a JW knox on my door to talk about the Bible, even though I don't want to talk to him, he keeps coming back to talk to me. Then after a few weeks, he drives up in a big truck with a load of sheetrock, and brings a crew of men with him to install the sheet rock in my house, helps me paint my house, he helps me tape and texture the drywall, brings carpet and vinyl installs it, and he does all this work for free and gives me all the materials for free.

So after all that I still didn't believe anything they had to say, so I bought a brand new Bible at a Bible bookstore, and I read the entire Bible from front to back cover, just to prove them wrong, and I ended up becoming one of them.

This is just one good experience with Jehovah's Witnesses, it would take me an entire week to explain all the good things they have taught me that's in any Bible, and all the joy, peace of mind, comfort, happiness, and love I experience being associated with them. It's like if a stranger walked up to your door and was persistent about giving you information that you discover to be worth more than a million dollars, you would be thankful would you not?

💖 So in my experiences, I like the advice they give and I look up the scriptures that support the advice.
 
Last edited:
walter said:
Around 1980 I was 19 years old, my Dad owned a lumber yard and said I could build a little house in the back 5 acres, So I am working on my house and a JW knox on my door to talk about the Bible, even though I don't want to talk to him, he keeps coming back to talk to me. Then after a few weeks, he drives up in a big truck with a load of sheetrock, and brings a crew of men with him to install the sheet rock in my house, helps me paint my house, he helps me tape and texture the drywall, brings carpet and vinyl installs it, and he does all this work for free and gives me all the materials for free.

So after all that I still didn't believe anything they had to say, so I bought a brand new Bible at a Bible bookstore, and I read the entire Bible from front to back cover, just to prove them wrong, and I ended up becoming one of them.

This is just one good experience with Jehovah's Witnesses, it would take me an entire week to explain all the good things they have taught me that's in any Bible, and all the joy, peace of mind, comfort, happiness, and love I experience being associated with them. It's like if a stranger walked up to your door and was persistent about giving you information that you discover to be worth more than a million dollars, you would be thankful would you not?

💖 So in my experiences, I like the advice they give and I look up the scriptures that support the advice.
Click to expand...
OK, So you feel like they did good to you, now you feel they are great.
Does it change the fact that Good people can also believe in a false Organisation?

Jim Jones, and David Koresh was also considered as True Prophets of God, and even claimed they were God incarnate.
many people believed they were Good people.

Please note, I never said the Jehovah Witnesses were BAD, I said they were mislead by the Organisation who claimed since 1895 that they were the representation of God on Earth.
This organisation created a governing body who Claim to be the Prophet of God.
They prophesied that the world will end in 1914, and that Jesus will return to Earth to start the Millenial kingdom. They said He will destroy all churches, and will create the JW utopia. Id did not happen.
After loosing thousands of people, they covered the story up with, Jesus did come, but we did not see him because he said it will be in secret coming in the clouds.
Then they mislead more people and claimed it will be in 1925, then in 1938, and on and on. I had first hand experience of this 1975 prophecy which was again a lie.
At one stage the BTS bought a huge house
"Beth Sarim (Hebrew בית שרים "House of the Princes") is a ten-bedroom mansion in San Diego, California, constructed in 1929 in anticipation of various resurrected Old Testament biblical patriarchs or prophets such as Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah and Samuel. It was maintained by the Watch Tower Society, the parent organization used by Jehovah's Witnesses,..."

The Bible and Tract Society are a huge and daemonic joke.
They mislead people just to make money.
Not a single prophecy made by them ever realized.


Nope, I will follow the Bible which say not to listen to false prophets.

In this case, I refuse to listen to the False Witnesses who say they are Witnesses of YHWH.
My God dont allow false witnesses to testify for Him.
Even if they buils a house for me!
 
walter said:
I don't give up until all the scriptures from both websites agree and make sense 100%, this is not easy to do, but I have done it a few times. In the end there will be a couple of scriptures that will still disagree with the others, at that point I do some research into how that verse is translated in a hundred different Bibles, and I keep searching until I find wording that agrees with the majority scripture evidence I already have.
Click to expand...
Whew! Really? You pulling my leg? The furthest I got was a couple parallel bibles...and occasionally traipsing into bible gateway for more.
 
wil said:
Whew! Really? You pulling my leg? The furthest I got was a couple parallel bibles...and occasionally traipsing into bible gateway for more.
Click to expand...
I go to biblegateway.com biblehub.com studybible.info this way I see the verse in over 100 different bibles. After a few times it gets easy!
 
As a note, I used to close the door on Jehovah's Witnesses, would not listen to them at all -- until there was a turn in life. A minister from a church told me that faith was one of the gifts of the spirit, and only God could give me this gift. At the time I did not believe in God so wondered how that could be possible. But here I am not with faith in God and it is ONLY because of what Jehovah's Witnesses told me and believe. I do not engage in too many arguments, but I thought I'd mention this. Not everyone, of course, sees things the same way. And God allows that. As He did with the Israelites. And when Jesus came to the earth.
wil said:
Whew! Really? You pulling my leg? The furthest I got was a couple parallel bibles...and occasionally traipsing into bible gateway for more.
Click to expand...
Hello. I make sure that what I am reading is the truth and in harmony with what I know and appreciate about God. I can check various translations as well as commentaries. What do you do?
 
YoursTrue said:
As a note, I used to close the door on Jehovah's Witnesses, would not listen to them at all -- until there was a turn in life. A minister from a church told me that faith was one of the gifts of the spirit, and only God could give me this gift. At the time I did not believe in God so wondered how that could be possible. But here I am not with faith in God and it is ONLY because of what Jehovah's Witnesses told me and believe. I do not engage in too many arguments, but I thought I'd mention this. Not everyone, of course, sees things the same way. And God allows that. As He did with the Israelites. And when Jesus came to the earth.
Click to expand...
It seems to me that all the JW posting on this thread became JW as their first experience of belief in God? It is the ship that rescued them from drowning, and it is the ship they know.

I wonder how many folks actually 'jump ship' to JW from other faiths or other Christian denominations?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top