The Way of Salvation

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Sacredstar, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    Dear Q

    I have started this thread in response to your earlier post on the 'tolerance' thread.

    "Beauty in the eye of the beholder is truly subjective. We can't take off the dark lenses, because we simply cannot see, for we now see in part, but in time will see in whole"

    I AM talking generally here Q and just sharing nothing I say is aimed at you or anyone else OK.

    Well we can start with taking off the lens of negative thinking and blame of others, we cannot heal the self if we do not think positively about the self and what we may discover about the self. Positive thinking is the first step to loving the self, next comes forgiveness and compassion for self. Once this is achieved we can truly offer this to others without ulterior motive or emotional need.

    Some will never take off the dark glasses because some are attached to negativity and the energy it creates. Let me give you an analogy that Archangel Michael shared with me. He showed me a victorian camera with all the different lenses, he explained that each lense holds our negative perceptions due to negative life experiences. So what some view comes through this cloudy lense of perceptional consciousness.

    "How can we heal self, when we don't know what is wrong?"

    Excellent point, many eastern spiritual teachers down the ages have said 'look within' but yet few have shown people how to look within to find the root causes.

    It is clear that if one feels negative about anything/person or situation, or one is experiencing negative life conditions there is something seriously wrong. For instance if we feel angry it is important to look within and find out the reason why? The anger is the core issue but what is the root cause? If one angers it is triggering something very deep within that requires healing for what resists persists.

    For instance a client comes and I get them to draw their feelings of the last time they were upset. Then the client puts words to those emotions e.g hate, misunderstood, got to get out of here, hostility, degenerate, disrespect. Mental health professionals have triggered these emotions for this autistic person, but yet when I ask him to reflect and track back the last time he felt these feelings, sure enough we find the root causes in childhood. Once we bring the root causes out of the sub-conscious into the conscious mind field we have 50% healed it, the rest is healed through a variety of methods depending on the issues raised.

    So on a personal level if you never get upset or angry then there is nothing to heal. The more we heal ourselves the more we raise our consciousness because the negative energy holds us back. Most of humanity are vibrating at lower levels of consciousness:

    Root chakra - I WANT TO BE SAFE
    Sacrel chakra - I WANT TO BE HAPPY
    Solar Plexus - I AM POWER

    but if we sort out the issues in these lower levels we are truly able to raise our consciousness. I AM POWER is interesting one because it is the centre of the human body so it is what we do with this energy that counts, do we use it to control and dominate others or use it to empower others and self?

    "How can we choose a path, if we don't know what path to take?"

    Trust your own heart and where it leads you, learn about synchronicity and the messages that GOD and his messengers are actively trying to impart to you. What is your dream? Allow yourself to be inspired by your own goodness within.

    "Define the parameters for beauty"

    When we have raised our consciousness and see all through GOD's eyes everything is perfect because we chose it. So even the darkness as a reason for being.

    "When the adage "physician, heal thy self", came about, it was not an order. It was a joke. Like only a fool in court has himself for a client"

    I can only tell you that this is one of the ways to salvation, it is the way that Jesus showed me, I think GOD got fed up of me begging for help, I was in the black pit of hell, sitting like a tramp in the street while it poured with rain two weeks before Christmas when everyone else was happy and loved. Those years ago are like a haze now a different lifetime, but one day I found a book called 'you can heal your life' and this book gave me a tiny light that I could follow, it said you can heal yourself and so I kept following that light until I did heal myself and now the government employ me as a consultant to help others to heal themselves. And this is so amazing because when we heal the self we are then able to share that with others and the ripple effect goes our throughout the community emanating more and more of GOD's light and love.

    "Looking within gets us nowhere but deeper in a hole"

    I am not sure where you get this from of how you came to this conclusion. Energy goes into two directions positive and negative and sometimes we have to go through the 'night of the dark soul' to find the true revelation.

    "If we had the answers within, we would not be in the mess we are in as a world, today"

    Well my view is that the world is in this mess because it looks outside of itself for happiness and validation but yet all we need is within. This view is embraced and lived by millions around the planet.

    "and see results"

    well I have a wonderful research report of results but will post the fast track results here for you to see if the single a4 will post.

    "you'll be heard as a gong in the wind. That is the fact of life"

    It matters not to me whether I am heard or not, I have no attachment I am guided to where I must be, whom to help and others are brought to me. In GOD I trust, for it is GOD that I serve not the self, even being here on this forum when it is time to go I will be shown.

    "And the first time you lose your cool, because you are challenged, well, you get the picture."

    Yes of course, and I am the first to admit that I AM still raising my consciousness, healing the self and integrating all that IS. If I get upset about anything (which is rare) the first thing I do is look at me, then when I have resolved the situation within myself I ask myself could I have done it better? Then I would ask myself what might be going on with the other person involved....what roles are taking what part?

    "School of hard knocks"

    This was my school, hitting my head on brick walls until it hurt so much I had no choice but to look within for salvation.

    "So, you either slow down, so we can catch up, or you leave us behind"

    I hear you and thank you for being such a wonderful and patient person.

    God is patient...and so are you.

    Blessings in abundance

    Sacredstar
     
  2. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    Dear Q

    Here is some fast track results that were achieved with what the salvation army call 'lost souls' The new empowerment model ran for six months and the parents attended 2 hour group sessions once a fortnight and a Reiki healing course, just 37 hours in all. These results were decided by the participants at the end of the programme and the detailed results form part of a 60 page research report.

    CHANGE CRITERION AVERAGE % IMPROVEMENT

    Taking your power back 88%

    Improved relationship with children 85%

    Removing masks 79%

    Taking responsibility for the thoughts, words
    And deeds 79%

    Healing fears 78%

    Forgiveness 78%

    Taking compassionate action 76%

    Positive thinking 75%

    Increased confidence 75%

    Communication from the heart 75%

    Letting go 73%

    Feel empowered 73%

    Integrating unconditional love 72%

    Improved relationship with partner 71%

    Achievement of happiness 69%

    Acceptance 68%

    Changed perceptions, attitudes and beliefs 68%

    Trust 67%

    Embraced change 67%

    Healing core issues 66%

    Improved health 63%

    Healing inner child 60%

    Surrender the need to control 62%

    Found a new direction in work or training 60%

    and here are there comments

    FEEDBACK

    From Parents

    <sum> One parent’s response when asked what they had gained from the group was “Love, understanding, forgiveness, acceptance and truth. The ability to see situations in a positive way and appreciate all that I am, and all that I have. I have gained me, after years of self-hatred. I now have self-love and acceptance I can be me for who I am, not for who or what I think I should be. I have also gained my family and friends for who they truly are”.

    <sum> “At first I felt it was awful that all of my memories should come up to the surface and emotion would run for all to see, then I realised that by allowing myself to have such emotion and finally show it, I was beginning to heal myself. I would like to learn from these experiences and use this knowledge to help other ‘victims’ heal themselves.

    <sum> “I have never felt this way about life before, thank you’, “WOW! Thank you for showing me the way forward, turning on my light and flying with me”.

    <sum> “Thank you I feel like I am flying and I feel amazing a wonderful gift I have been given”. “What I have learnt will not only help myself, but others too.”

    <sum> “Awesome and amazing, I could not put in words what the empowerment has given me or my family. I never thought I could be or feel this way”

    <sum> “The main thing that I have achieved is a positive relationship with my son. It is through the empowerment group that I have this, I never thought it possible. I have also achieved many other things through ‘being’ part of the empowerment group and for this I am truly grateful.”

    <sum> “Thank you for helping me to come to terms with the death of my son.”

    <sum> “Life is fantastic”

    From Sure Start

    The Empowerment Group was an emotional motivating journey for us all! I feel privileged to have been able to share in both the group’s highs and their lows, no roller coaster could surpass this experience. It just goes to show that there is light at the end of the dark tunnel for all of us, it just takes that first step out of the comfort zone that will propel you forward into your new future. To work without judgement of others is the key but to find this within oneself is the first step to enlightenment. There are choices available and these people were brave enough to test the waters of a brighter future for themselves, their partners and their children. They deserve the very best in life, and I’m sure that they will continue to lovingly allow themselves to accept this.

    Fiona Sutton, Sure Start Administrator

    We are truly blessed to be shown the way of salvation is through healing the self with the power of the spirit.

    Love beyond measure

    Kim xx
     
  3. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

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    I have a problem with the term "heal self" My problem with it is that I cannot heal myself .. I can be healed through Jesus Christ. But He does the healing. He alone has the power to heal.. we are just vessels in which He works through. The Spirit is the power that Jesus uses in healing. When others are healed the glory of it needs to go to Him or we risk putting ourselves on the throne that only He is worthy of.
     
  4. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    Dear Faithfulservant

    Well he does not say this in his teachings in the Gospel of Thomas and it as not been my experience either. In fact he is so happy when others take responsibility for healing the self, this he promoted in his teachings of self mastery. He also told the Apostles off for being drunk on his energy and not using their own power.

    And in the bible whilst healing Jesus said 'you can do this even greater then I' it makes me very sad that the church did not promote this to enable others to benefit from the power of GOD.

    I have been meaning to compile some of these scriptures relating to self mastery and healing the self so will post them as soon as I source them again.

    Love beyond measure

    Sacredstar
     
  5. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    Dear Faithfulservant

    Well some of the people that I worked with did not believe in GOD or Jesus but they were able to heal the self and so they would not appreciate GOD being the only one that is worthy. The government's aim was to empower these individuals through energising people to innovate change. Facilitating them to feel worthy of society and the workplace, to encourage parents to provide better lives for their children.

    And so I feel it is better to assist others to heal and save themselves, as they begin to raise their consciousness, they find their way to love and light which eventually leads them to the source of all that IS.

    Let us help others in GOD's name but yet not deter others from receiving that help due to the word 'GOD' or 'Jesus' in cases where people have a real issue with the word GOD I ask them to replace it with LOVE.

    For GOD is love and love is GOD and GOD does not care what name is called as long as we get the job done!

    Love beyond measure

    Sacredstar
     
  6. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    Star, I think there is such a thing as self healing, self inner peace, etc. etc. etc. and this teaching is good... but I am also like Faithful, there is another healing and peace that only God can give.

    I think some people are getting them mixed up and may be lacking one or the other, but I will hold to the peace and healing through Jesus before I am going to submit to JUST my own self healing.

    We can SAVE ourselves from many torments on earth with proper thinking. On the other hand there is only one who is able to SAVE the soul from the second death and that is Jesus.

    My own self peace is not the same thing as the peace I have found in the Lord.
     
  7. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    Star I was reading your research again and I do think what you are saying is all true. But at the same time if we leave God out of it all then who is getting the glory? People?
    We should not glory in ourselves and at one point or another God is going to have His glory because He is God. And if people do not like that, well I dont know what to say, they will just have to take it up with Him later and for now keep pretending He is not there.

    I have not put my finger on it exactly, but I have tried the last couple of days to put this pretend thought in my head that there is no God, and it is impossible for me to do. That just seems like a very lonely road to me and I cannot not even begin to imagine what that is like.

    Something seems to be missing there when people have an issue with God that way and I dont think I want to find out what it is.

    But I do know what you are saying about the inner self.
    We can trance, meditate and do all kinds of stuff. But it is not the same thing as the mind and spirit of God.
    What do you think?
     
  8. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    Dear Bandit

    In response to you

    1) Well GOD wishes for people to glory at his creation by honouring the self and in so doing they are honouring GOD for we are one. In finding the true self one can also find GOD for GOD is within as well as everywhere else.

    2/3/4) Well they are not pretending it is their reality. It is very hard for a woman that as lost a child for instance, some people that believed in GOD lost their faith, a person that turned to GOD and the church and in doing so turned away because she could not accept that GOD could be love if her child would be taken away. So there are many reasons why people have turned against GOD and from my professional experience it is usually to do with church, bible and religious dogma and doctrines that people feel are not worthy of them. In some cases I agree with them and in others I do not.

    So for me it is important that people make peace with the self and in so doing they can also make peace and make reconcilation with GOD. In my reality there is no separation between us and GOD and when we deny the GOD within we are still in separation from all that IS glorious on earth. So I do not judge others who cannot accept the word GOD and I offer them other alternatives; love, creator, source......whatever they can accept for it is better to have faith in something then nothing at all.

    5) Well in healing the self we are able to come into oneness with GOD. As Jesus said 'the two become one' some find GOD through the bible, some find GOD through meditation and others are blessed to experience mystical encounters and direct communion with GOD. So for me there is no hard and fast rules, each to their own way of finding their own way home to peace and in so doing coming home to GOD. For GOD is peace.

    So in response to your question is meditation the same as experiencing the mind and spirit of GOD? For me being one with the heart of GOD is bliss and no human being can make me feel the way GOD does, that might come through meditation or mystical experience, to me it matters not how it happens but it is a joyful altered state experience when my soul merges completely with GOD.

    Blessings in abundance

    Sacredstar
     
  9. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    Dear Bandit

    Through healing human emotions and negative soul memories we are able to merge in oneness with GOD.

    I agree on saving ourselves and many toments on earth through positive thinking and I would add zero judgement.

    Perhaps you would like to elaborate on your final statement of the second death? For the bible clearly states that 'you can kill the physical body but you cannot kill the soul'.

    To me the soul is immortal but the task is to break the wheel of karma and reincarnation through purifying the soul through self healing, although I also accept this purification is also done through pain and suffering.

    Blessings in abundance

    Sacredstar
     
  10. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

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    I believe suffering builds character and character builds faith...I dont believe we are supposed to live a life with no tribulations or trials. What happens when a person is hurting.. they look for hope instinctively. This is not true for all people but the majority it does. Many people accept Jesus on their death bed for a reason.. It is when they are most open to the call of God. Fear and hopelessness.. whats going to happen when I die? Am I really sure? Then they take Jesus' hand and know real peace. God sets them in His lap and says Fear not I AM your God.. Do not despair I AM with you.. I will comfort you.. I will help you.. I will uphold you with my RIGHTEOUS RIGHT HAND. They realize that they arent alone and never have been. Ive seen the peace that Christ brings to a person dying and its a real thing. He knocks and knocks throughout peoples life and he continues to knock until the very last minute. Thank you Jesus.
     
  11. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    Good words here from both Faithfulservant and Bandit. It is very hard to grow beyond yourself when you stay totally focused on your self.

    peace,
    lunamoth
     
  12. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    Thanks for replying Star:)

    I think this approach is good and I have also used it with people. I still see something lacking there when we try to leave the Lord out of the picture totally. How is it one woman can remain faithful to the Lord after she loses a child, which happens every day around the world, and another will take a different route and deny the Lord.
    Everyone gets hurt and has problems.

    Therapy is a good thing. Some do well afterward and I have noticed that a lot of people resort back to there negative way once the therapy stops. This is where we need the Lord and HIS love and understanding and guidance.
    Some people get too stuck on ME ME ME. Woe is me and try to blame everything around them, which is understandable to a point.
    Someone else will take the same situation and give it to the Lord and ask for His guidance and remain faithful.

    Yes that passage refers to the death of the flesh as in murder by man and there are other passage by more than one witness that tell us God is BOTH able to deliver and to destroy BOTH the body and the soul. I dont know how because I am not God and I did not create life but I see both sides of the coin. The devil, which I also believe God made is also able to destroy to a dgree, if we allow him. Remember I believe all the bible not just parts of it but I am not a literalist on it all, as some might view me as. I believe God made Gabriel the same way He made Lucifer.

    If God made us, which I believe, then He is also able to deliver. If God made us, then I would also have to believe that He is able to destroy (second death). That may not sit right with some, so that is why we look at it from the perspective of He is able to deliver.

    I agree with you,Our body is ours and it can be good, but He wants it also to be His temple.
    The earth is ours because He gave these things for us to enjoy. On the flipside WOE! to the inhabitants who destroys the earth.

    Some just dont want to see the flipside, but I do.

    I do believe what you mentioned in the other post that for some no God is a reality and they have chose to go that path. So we try to get some back on track by teaching Love. That is all good. Now I can see both sides, but I think the ones who deny God and look up and down all over the earth for answers are on a different track, so to speak.

    I said earlier I tried to leave God out for a couple of days in my mind (to try and see it that way) and it is impossible for me to do. I was brought to this uncontrollable laughter inside at the very thought, which led into sorrow, which led me right back into the peace of God.
    My own 'self inner peace and love' is there because I have learned how to achieve it. Where as, the peace and love of God passes my understanding and has no limit and that is why I love His peace so much better.

    We are human and limited. However we are not limited in God. He does not put a limit on us in searching Him and He does not limit us in understanding His ways. His understanding is unlimited, so we can go as far as we want to in Him because He has no limit.
    So I see this as a quite a little problem when people try to put all there trust in themselves and other people and leave God out.

    We can take care of our bodies and the earth, we can heal our minds through positive thoughts, but when it comes to healing the soul and the spiritual man, only God can do that and it wont work without Him. What I am trying to say is the soul can be dead without people realizing it. By that I mean dead and not alive, unto , IN, by, through, the giver of life. We cannot purify the soul by ourselves.

    This can get very lengthy and confusing for some, so I am going to stop at that and thanks again for talking to me about this Star. I appreciate it and I appreciate you and your efforts.
     
  13. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    Very true as Jesus said 'when you know how to suffer you learn how not to suffer' and suffering as been good for purifying the soul. But humanity is very quickly getting to the point where it as paid back its karma and is ready to live in peace and love in the new Kingdom just like Jesus promised.

    Love beyond measure


    Sacredstar
     
  14. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    Dear Bandit

    Thank you for your response I have only picked out a few aspects because I am pushed for time.

    1) In my experience a majority of counselling therapy provides more problems then it solves so I agree with you. The work mentioned above is not therapy.

    2) That is because they have not been taught the universal truths and given the techniques and tools to integrate their own learning process.

    3) Totally agree

    4) We will have to agree to disagree on this one, my view is that we are GOD's creation with no limitations apart from those we set upon ourselves, it is church doctrine that we are limited beings. Hence why GOD wishes for us to take our GOD given power back so that we can reach our limitless potential.

    5) Well yes we can purify the soul ourselves and many of us in the healing field do so, we heal all levels of consciousness in all multi-dimensional reality for it is GOD's will, which is why healers have been blessed with the methods to do so. Shamans and the indigenous people's have done this for 1,000's of years long before Christianity was even thought of.

    Love beyond measure

    Sacredstar
     
  15. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    And here Jesus talks about attaining wholeness which is the foundation of the work that people within the healing field are assisting others to achieve. Sickness as we know can be mind, body and/or soul for they are interrelated in consciousness. This quote is featured in Matthew, Mark and Luke so the impact of the teaching must have left a mark of great importance for it to be included in all texts.

    "They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meanth" (Mt 9:12)

    How do we achieve wholeness? Through healing the self and finding the root causes of our core issues and in so doing we raise our consciousness. Again Jesus is asking people to learn the meaning of the sickness which brings us back to finding out what is causing the imbalance in physical reality by looking within.

    Physical reality is the barometer of imbalance and imbalance impedes our wholeness and total consummation with GOD hence why it was such an important factor in the teachings of Jesus showing people the way to salvation.

    Blessings in abundance

    Sacredstar
     
  16. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

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    Matthew 9: 10 Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, "Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" 12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."


    Actually Jesus was speaking of sinners and their need for repentance. Not "self" healing.. The sinners come to him then and now for thier salvation is only through him.

    I would also like to add that the bible repeatedly talks about how we are to submit to God.. Jesus himself had no authority other than what the Father gave him. We have no power other than what the Father allows us to have.. its not OUR power.. it belongs to him. We are not God so we are very limited.. and completely dependant on Him.

    You said: "Jesus said 'when you know how to suffer you learn how not to suffer' and suffering as been good for purifying the soul. But humanity is very quickly getting to the point where it as paid back its karma and is ready to live in peace and love in the new Kingdom just like Jesus promised"

    We are told that when we suffer we are to look to God for comfort and he promises to give it through Jesus.
     
  17. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

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    Dear Faithfulservant

    Dear Faithfulservant

    As Jesus said "He who finds the inner meanings of these words will not taste death" 1 GT

    That means try to look beyond the literal, this is how I understand the insights from the above.

    He said he desires mercy not sacrifice.

    He is asking his followers to have mercy and compassion for self and not sacrifice oneself like a lamb on the alter to GOD. In fact he went further to accuse his disciples of getting drunk on his energy, he was cross that they were not getting his message of spiritual independence, his mission was to empower not disempower, unite not separate consciousness. To help individuals to take back their power so that they could be an instrument for GOD's will-to-good and unite with GOD in wholeness and oneness. Not as an inferior being but as GOD's equal for GOD made us in his image and so it is a co-creation, GOD can do nothing without our willingness and alignment with us and we cannot fulfil diivne will without GOD.

    He said he did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

    The original hebrew translation of 'as to sin' means to miss the mark like an arrow missing its target, the term came from archery. And so the insight I have gained from this inner meaning is that there are some things that we miss and the above quote is quite meaningless without the full teachings and understaning the inner meanings of those teachings, and so it comes bacl to our understanding and interpretations, do we buy what the church as promoted and misrepresented in my view or do we repent by going within to find the source of the imbalance and darkness so that we do not taste death?

    The church fathers that put the bible together did not understand the inner meanings because they were not taught the rite of passage by him, those did know the rite of passage were branded heretics due to the church wishing the people to yeild to them, and it was promoted that the only way one could be one with GOD was to have the church and the church fathers as mediators for that repentance ( hence confession) but yet the church fathers knew not of the mystery teachings that healers have known for millennia.

    Now let is look at the english meaning of the words 'repent' and 'repentance'

    "To regret or wish to be otherwise"

    People wish to be healthy when they are unhealthy. People wish to change their lives and Jesus was showing them how through his teachings of self mastery.

    'What one as done or left undone'

    To solve the mysteries of the self mind, body and soul. To find the meaning of life and the reason for being on planet earth.

    "To change from past evil'

    To learn from one's error's in thought, word and deed and that which was less good, e.g. unforgiveness, anger, judgement of others, anti-love, blame etc

    "Lying on the ground and rooting"

    To go to the foundations of the self and root out the darkness so that one can be empowered. It takes a great deal of humilty to look within at one's own shadow side, in order to raise one's consciousness by healing desire, needs and negative emotions and memories.

    The people came to him because he was an amazing healer and spiritual teacher and he knew how to assist them to make the breakthroughs in human consciousness. Their salvation was gained through what he taught them and the healing they received through his compassion, love and healing intent. As he said 'you can all do this even better then I' there never was a more empowering statement of spiritual independence and confirmation that people did not need him once they took back their power and trusted GOD.

    Did he not also say if you have the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains and so it is we have the power of GOD within us to create miracles and move mountains in GOD's name.

    Submit to GOD - I totally agree and it is two-fold, first one as to totally surrender to one's divine self and then one is able to surrender to the Holy spirit of GOD, then one can choose to align our own will with GOD's will. But how many are prepared to surrender all human will to GOD? I personally know very few humans that are truly willing to do this.

    We are born with the power of GOD to fufil the will to good it is our original nature for GOD works through us when we allow the force to do so.GOD is not separate from us and unless we believe GOD to be so. In my view and experience while one stays in thought of separation it is very hard to become one with GOD in its fullest experience. We are only as limited as our human thoughts, beliefs and perceptions, limitation is a human trait not a trait of the divine self or the GOD within. But the church very effectively promoted this limitation to keep the people under control. Just imagine what you could create if you realised your own GOD given power, yes indeed you can move mountains with your hand of GOD. GOD does not wish us to be dependent but to take responsibility for what we co-create, when we do this there will be no more wars and harmony and peace will reign on earth. GOD is our friend and our navigator, standing side by side, walking hand in hand, in the front line.

    Yes I agree so that the master of suffering can lead us out of the darkness within and show us the way to heal the self so that we may be the light of love like him.

    Let us never forget that GOD sent Jesus as a healer and a healer he remains in thought, word and deed. Which is why I am surprised that more Christians have not followed in his footsteps and followed his example by becoming a healers too.

    When GOD and his messengers speak to me they use the word redemption the word repentance as never been uttered probably because of the adverse interpretation by the church.

    And so what does redemption mean:

    To take back (our power and goodness)
    To recover (that which is good so that we may transmute that which is dark)
    To free oneself (from darkness so that we may take off our dark glasses and come home to self and GOD in true liberation of the soul and spirit)
    To rescue (to save ourselves)
    To atone (to find reconciliation within so that we may reconcile with GOD and become one with GOD)
    To the best advantage (to be the best that we can be)

    As I write I can hear this saying ringing in my ears, Jesus said these words more often then any other:

    May Peace be with YOU, for when we have made peace with the self it is natural to be at peace with GOD and the rest of the planet.

    Thank you for allowing me to share these insights it as enforced my own experience and gnosis further. I honour you and your faith and I feel sure that we can find the middle ground between Christian literalism and Christian Gnosticism.

    Your faith makes your light shine brightly faithfulservant.

    Love beyond measure

    Sacredstar
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2005
  18. Blue

    Blue Member

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    As some of you will know by now, the concept in the Thread title means little to me in spiritual terms in spite of being a Theist myself.

    Without sounding flippant, salvation depends upon survival in this life to at least the point where we can fulfil the genetic imperative to reproduce before we die.

    That depends upon being healthy enough, having had something of a physical nurture for a number of years, and safe enough to perform that function.

    That depends upon food and shelter.

    A spiritual concept of salvation seems to hypothesise that there is some other kind of 'Salvation' necessitating a different imperative, a different kind of sustenance, which is perhaps 'spiritual' food, and shelter somewhere other than on this planet as objective human beings; spiritual shelter.

    Now, surely it is a personal thing if we decide to validate such a concept within our affective nature and nurture? It bears no necessity of external and objective proofs. It cannot be denied. It may be comfort some of the living.

    I can see nothing wrong with that.

    If that is what people wish to believe in their hearts (and souls?), that is what they wish to believe.

    What one cannot do though is simply assert that there IS 'Salvation' somewhere beyond death for everyone.... because, the fact is, that we do NOT factually, objectively, 'know' or have any evidence for such a state of beyond physical life called 'Salvation'.
    Asserting such things does not make them into some kind of ultimate' or 'universal' truth, just because they are part of a religious tradition, a set of doctrines and dogmas, or just a personal conceptualisation.

    I think this must be understood, whatever the particular feelings you may have internally/spiritually validated to your own satisfactions as evidenced below in this Thread.

    "Happy Days!" ;)
     
  19. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    Dear Fatihfulservant and Sacredstar, I hope you will not mind me jumping in here to respond to few of SS's comments :) .




    I note that this is from the Gospel of Thomas and I don't have any problem with that. I agree that we will find many layers of meaning in any given passage of the Bible and that there is not just one literal interpretation. However I don't believe that one needs some kind of secret knowledge either from other teachings or personal Revelation in the form of direct Communicatin from God or visions or what have you. I'm not saying that we do not receive divine inspiration as we pray and mediate on the Bible, just that it is not always in the form of angels speaking in one's head or some kind of secret scriptures being hidden from us by Rome or the devil or the bogeyman or whomever. I am arguing against gnosis and pretty much for the same reason Ireneaus did: it creates elitism and division among the followers of Christ.

    Sacredstar, you go on the give us some of the inspirations you have had about the scriputres under discussion and that is excellent. But then you say:

    (bolds by lm)

    Do you believe then that Jesus' preferred method of teaching was by secret initiation? That his word could only really be understood and interpretted by a few chosen individuals and the rest were left out of God's plan for salvation? And that it just happened that the ones who "got it right" were suppressed efficiently while only those with corruption in mind were successful in establishing Christianity?

    Don't you think God would be a bit more, uh, efficient than that? You clearly believe God is pouring out His love on us--why would you think that only corruption and conspiracy would reign for 2000 years after Christ with God's grace pouring freely on us the whole time? I would suggest that yes, it is very possible that Christinaity could look very different today if things had gone differently in the early centuries, but I would not say that it would necessarily be better.

    Just my 2c :)

    Peace,
    lunamoth
     
  20. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

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    I just wanted to add about our will not aligning with Gods and how people fight it because its their nature.. That is so true.. So what a wonderful thing to be able to do to lay your life before God and pray " Father my life is yours please do with it what you will because I trust you in all your ways.. you know so much better than I do.. My path is yours to create because I know that you will send me where I need to go teach me what I need to know with your Word and use me however you will to to edify you the church and myself. You are glorious in all your ways and as Moses spent 40 days with you on the mount he came down with his face shining so brightly I would also ask your light to shine so brightly from me so that people would see you through me. I pray that you keep me on a righteous path, Lord. For the world is not righteous and I do not wish to fall in its way. In Jesus' precious name... Amen.

    Everyday its a spiritual warfare to not take back control from God and believe it or not that is the lesson he teaches me most. Most of my heartache and trials comes from taking it back from him! And Im still learning. How wonderful it is that he is so patient with me.. disciplining me lovingly..for it is then that I know that I am his child and I praise him.

    He is a loving Father and my salvation is through grace in our Savior the King of Kings the Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ.
     

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