What evidence would you accept?

TheLightWithin said:
How so?
Logic is a thought process, a method of thinking systematically.
You need content to think about - data, evidence, etc.
You know who used to claim she based all her thinking and philosophy on logic and reason?
Ayn Rand, and her Objectivism philosophy.
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you only need to realise two things.

something from nothing is illogical
something always existing without a beginning is illogical

BUT you also need to have a clear state of mind untarnished by an agenda. Sadly, the rationalist/scientific mind has fallen foul etc etc.

I've laid my...theory? plan? in front of many people. Some, scientists, well versed in all the tropes. They all ran away.

To a man.

Unchanged due to a psychological need for certainty in their mechanical faith.
 
Peace to all,

Jesus never said He is God and even more profoundly He says, "Before Abraham, I am." And the spit and Him and threw rocks at Him and he never returned to that temple.

“Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

The God from the Faith of Abraham, the New Temple fulfills from the incorruptible spirit through the immortal life "in One Christ Body" becoming again transfigured re-imaged in the New Promise Land in two Natures for One Family.

Religious authority is anointed from the wedding of Cana uniting the Immaculate Flesh from Mary becomes together with the Eternal Priestly Authority of Jesus in One Christ Body resurrecting from the spirit out of The Bosom of Abraham for all awaiting through the Flesh in the Christ becoming again from Sacrifice through Penance becoming forgiven in both natures becoming again for all Creation in One Family One God in being.

From the Faith of Abraham, Life is fulfilled from the Spirit in both natures. Catholicism is the only Abrahamic Religion fulfilled from the logical formulas through The Wondrous Mysteries from the Faith from Abraham becoming again for all Creation in One Family, I believe.

OMNiLogically, True rebirth and salvation cannot be understood until we logically see the Holy Spirit as The Family of God and we see Mary as God always together with the Father and the Son from One Holy Family becoming alive in all mankind from the spirit through the life in One Holy Spirit and Life Family One God in being.

The Host is the Body, Blood, Souls and Divinity of the Holy Family becoming conceived alive and living “In The Christ” for all mankind becoming again for all Creation in One God in being in all generalizations.

Gods nature becomes flesh hypo-statically united through The Host “In One Christ Body” becoming again Transfigured in One Family.

Free will becomes timelessly statically undefiled statically dynamically pulsing forever in His Passion forever never failing forever loving only and loving with only the most love becoming again in One Family One God in being, OMNiLogically From the Faith of Abraham.

The Word becomes flesh “through The Host” “In The Christ.”

Holy Spirit Family Powers unite Transfiguring all Creation again from Creation becoming Immaculately Transformed Immortalized and Sanctified through the New Eve becoming Incorruptibly Glorified re-Sanctified Confirmed from Sacrifice through Penance in the New Adam for Jesus becoming “In The Christ” for all mankind becoming forgiven in both natures from the power of the spirit manifesting undefiled through the life immortalized becoming again unable to fail in all cases fulfilled re-imaged as The Father Transfigured in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being, OMNiLogically from the Faith of Abraham.

The OMNiLogical Undefiled Intelligence of the Mind of the Holy Family One God in being Preexisting is in the Host, from Baptized immortalized transformed into the New Eve becoming sanctified from spirit Incorruption in One Body for all becoming Brothers and Sisters through the New Eve for all becoming Into the Catholic Church. Transformed flesh from Holy Spirit Incorruption can now become forgiven from the Immaculate Conception transformed for Jesus the Eternal Priestly authority in the New Adam becoming hypo-statically united in One Christ Body, for all becoming from Sacrifice through Penance forgiven for all mankind becoming glorified Sons and Daughters of God becoming again for all Creation Transfigured in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being, I believe

Peace always
Stephen Andrew
 
rupert333 said:
something from nothing is illogical
something always existing without a beginning is illogical
BUT you also need to have a clear state of mind untarnished by an agenda. Sadly, the rationalist/scientific mind has fallen foul etc etc.

I've laid my...theory? plan? in front of many people. Some, scientists, well versed in all the tropes. They all ran away.

Unchanged due to a psychological need for certainty in their mechanical faith.
Click to expand...
I agree to your two statements in the beginning. I do not know why you say the underlined.
I do not blame scientists. Millions of people in the world come up with various kinds of theories.
You mean that after considering it (after attaining awareness of things) in my 83+ years, I should not be certain of my belief?
Of course, there are gaps in my belief, but I do not fill them up with Gods.
 
rupert333 said:
Once you realise that science isn't going to explain our origins...logically...you are left with the illogical. And with THAT...anything can happen.
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D'you think so?

I don't expect science – by which I assume we mean the physical sciences – to have all the answers – that would be illogical! ;)

Nor does that doesn't mean that all that's left is the illogical – that's the delusion of scientism.
 
Stephen Andrew said:
... Catholicism is the only Abrahamic Religion fulfilled ...
Click to expand...
As a Catholic, I disagree on a number of points, technical and theological ... but then I wonder why, if you think Catholicism is what you say it is, why do you spout so much non-Catholic and non-Christian stuff-and-nonsense?

As someone promoting 'OMNILogic' (whatever that means, 'universal system') I would have though your posts would benefit from being presented logically – that is in a manner both reasonable and comprehensible, rather than an unpunctuated, unintelligible screed littered with the occasional theological and/or metaphysical error.

But hey ... each to their own.
 
Peace to all,

Catholicism is OMNiLogical rebirth through the New Eve from Salvation in the New Adam becining "In The Christ" Through The Host for all mankind becomiong again for all Creation in One Holy Spirti Family One God in being.

The evidence is in the logic preexisting becoming from light energy creating the Big Bang becoming light mass through space time becoming again World Order through two natures hypo-statically and dynamically united in One God in being a Family.OMNiLogically, from The Faith of Abraham.

OMNiLogics is Logical unferstanding from the Faith of Abraham, becoming logical for all rational beings becoming again in One Family.

Call them what one wishes, Divine Beings with gender become alive and live in all mankind through the flesh becoming again In One God in being.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
Deliverer of OMNiLogicalGod from the Power of the Holy Spirit Family One God in being through the Faith of Abraham
 
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rupert333 said:
Once you realize that science isn't going to explain our origins...logically...you are left with the illogical. And with THAT...anything can happen.
Click to expand...
Who else do you think is going to explain our origins? Books thousands of years old written by people who had no knowledge of science even of their times (the Greeks knew better)? Yeah, we started with illogical, God, prophets, sons, messengers; science brought logic to it.
 
Stephen Andrew said:
Catholicism is OMNiLogical rebirth ...
Click to expand...
Just for fun, I ran this through AI to seem if it could make any sense of it:

ChatGPT offers:
That passage reads like a blend of Christian theological ideas, metaphysical speculation, and invented philosophical terminology (“OMNiLogics,” “OMNiLogical”) that’s trying to express a universal or cosmic interpretation of salvation. Let’s unpack it a bit into plain language and structure so it makes more sense.

1. Core idea
The author seems to be saying that Catholicism represents a kind of logical or universal rebirth (“OMNiLogical rebirth”) that happens through:

The New Eve (traditionally Mary),
The New Adam (Christ),
and through the Host (the Eucharist).
This rebirth restores all creation into unity — “One Holy Spirit Family, One God in being.”
In traditional Catholic terms, that aligns with the idea that through Christ’s incarnation and redemption, all creation is reconciled to God.

2. The cosmic logic part
The second paragraph ties creation and salvation history together through a kind of metaphysical logic:

Preexisting divine “light” becomes the Big Bang,
that becomes matter through space-time,
and ultimately becomes again order (or the “World Order”) united in God’s being.
The writer is connecting physical creation (cosmology) with the Incarnation — suggesting that the same divine logic (or “OMNiLogic”) behind the universe’s creation is also the logic behind salvation. The reference to “two natures hypostatically united” is classical Christology — Jesus being both fully God and fully human.

3. Faith of Abraham
The invocation of Abraham hints that this “OMNiLogic” is the continuation or fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant — faith leading to unity under one God, extended now to all rational beings as one divine family.

4. “Divine Beings with gender”
This final segment seems to say that human beings, created male and female, reflect something divine and are animated by God’s presence (“becoming again In One God in being”). It echoes Genesis (“male and female He created them”) interpreted mystically as participation in divine life.

Simplified paraphrase
Catholicism reveals a universal logic of creation and salvation: through Christ (the New Adam) and Mary (the New Eve), all creation is reborn into unity with God. The same divine logic that brought forth the universe—from divine light to matter to living order—continues in Christ’s incarnation, reconciling all existence into one divine family. Rooted in the faith of Abraham, this “OMNiLogic” expresses how God’s life animates all beings, male and female, into oneness with the Creator.
 
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Now I can understand it, I can respond to it, from a Catholic perspective.

1. Core idea
New Testament Christianity 101.

3. Faith of Abraham
Biblical monotheism 101.

4. “Divine Beings with gender”
A bit vague. To keep it light I'd say "Divine by participation"

If one wanted to go deeper I'd say the divine element lies at the very core of our being, and our being arises from that, so it is prior, and it is that as we recognise intimately as 'the Other' who knows us before we knew ourselves:
"You were more inward to me than my most inward part and higher than my highest (interior intimo meo et superior summo meo)" Augustine, Confessions 3.6.11. (In the Latin, the statement is interior intimo meo et superior summo meo.)

Simplified paraphrase
Catholicism reveals a universal logic ..."
What follows is a generic statement of Christian faith. I'd question the 'logic' because that depends upon how one reads the fall – heads up, everyone, this is a shameless pitch for my posts elsewhere – because the 'logic' of the Resurrection, which is the keystone of Christian Faith, stands in relation to the Fall.

2. The cosmic logic part
The second paragraph ties creation and salvation history together through a kind of metaphysical logic:
Here's where it goes off the rails a bit ...

The "preexisting becoming from light energy creating the Big Bang becoming light mass through space time" reads like pantheism to me, not Christian at all. The Big Bang itself is a consequence of the Fall.
 
Aupmanyav said:
Who else do you think is going to explain our origins? Books thousands of years old written by people who had no knowledge of science even of their times (the Greeks knew better)? Yeah, we started with illogical, God, prophets, sons, messengers; science brought logic to it.
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Well it seems to me the materialistic naturalism you endorse is a dead-end in that regard, a failed project.

Of the modern sciences, panpsychism seems to hold some possibilities.

And, of course, you idea that Gods, etc., are illogical also fails, as there are logical and coherent arguments for a deity. And, indeed, philosophers and scientists have argued logically and coherently on God's behalf then, as they do now.

And while my beliefs are founded on writings thousands of years old – as are, if you think about it, all the sciences – my beliefs, like theirs, are informed by contemporary commentary and exegesis.

+++

I have no problem with atheism, rather it's with your insistence that your expression of atheism is logical, whereas any other belief is not. As hinted at above, I find your argument rests on a flawed premise and as such utterly illogical ... but that's me.

+++
 
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Thomas said:
Of the modern sciences, panpsychism seems to hold some possibilities.

And, of course, you idea that Gods, etc., are illogical also fails, as there are logical and coherent arguments for a deity. And, indeed, philosophers and scientists have argued logically and coherently on God's behalf then, as they do now.
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Philosophical acrobatics. Nothing of science here.
Have not come across any such evidence. Yes, God/Gods/Goddesses can exist if FSM can exist.
 
Thomas said:
Now I can understand it, I can respond to it, from a Catholic perspective.

The "preexisting becoming from light energy creating the Big Bang becoming light mass through space time" reads like pantheism to me, not Christian at all. The Big Bang itself is a consequence of the Fall.
Click to expand...
Peace to all,

From Gods preexisting is From the Father through the Mother for the Son. From the Faith of Abraham, Gods become again from the spirit for all awaiting out of the Bosom of Abraham through the Christ, the Family of God conceived through the flesh from the spirit in all mankind becoming again for all Creation in One God in being.

Jesus and Mary Christ become the Host through The Immaculate Conception from the Eternal Priestly Authority in One Christ Body.

The Host is Baptized throughteh New Eve becoming in the New Living Sacrifice for Jesus in The New Adam becoming In The Christ for Penance forgiven in all mankind.

Peace always,
Stephen
 
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Thomas said:
Just for fun, I ran this through AI to seem if it could make any sense of it:

ChatGPT offers:
That passage reads like a blend of Christian theological ideas, metaphysical speculation, and invented philosophical terminology (“OMNiLogics,” “OMNiLogical”) that’s trying to express a universal or cosmic interpretation of salvation. Let’s unpack it a bit into plain language and structure so it makes more sense.

1. Core idea
The author seems to be saying that Catholicism represents a kind of logical or universal rebirth (“OMNiLogical rebirth”) that happens through:

The New Eve (traditionally Mary),
The New Adam (Christ),
and through the Host (the Eucharist).
This rebirth restores all creation into unity — “One Holy Spirit Family, One God in being.”
In traditional Catholic terms, that aligns with the idea that through Christ’s incarnation and redemption, all creation is reconciled to God.

2. The cosmic logic part
The second paragraph ties creation and salvation history together through a kind of metaphysical logic:

Preexisting divine “light” becomes the Big Bang,
that becomes matter through space-time,
and ultimately becomes again order (or the “World Order”) united in God’s being.
The writer is connecting physical creation (cosmology) with the Incarnation — suggesting that the same divine logic (or “OMNiLogic”) behind the universe’s creation is also the logic behind salvation. The reference to “two natures hypostatically united” is classical Christology — Jesus being both fully God and fully human.

3. Faith of Abraham
The invocation of Abraham hints that this “OMNiLogic” is the continuation or fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant — faith leading to unity under one God, extended now to all rational beings as one divine family.

4. “Divine Beings with gender”
This final segment seems to say that human beings, created male and female, reflect something divine and are animated by God’s presence (“becoming again In One God in being”). It echoes Genesis (“male and female He created them”) interpreted mystically as participation in divine life.

Simplified paraphrase
Catholicism reveals a universal logic of creation and salvation: through Christ (the New Adam) and Mary (the New Eve), all creation is reborn into unity with God. The same divine logic that brought forth the universe—from divine light to matter to living order—continues in Christ’s incarnation, reconciling all existence into one divine family. Rooted in the faith of Abraham, this “OMNiLogic” expresses how God’s life animates all beings, male and female, into oneness with the Creator.
Click to expand...
Peace to all,

So true, no more doubting Thomas, I believe, OMNiLogically. Gods logically preexist in logical intelligence I believe. We become to know the Faith of Abraham logically. God Creates, God Transforms and God Glorifies together from One Family transfiguration becoming again in One God in being a Family.

Peace always,
Stephen
OMNiLogicalGod.Com 2025 A. D.
 
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muhammad_isa said:
It's easy to claim that there is no life after death .. easy to claim that there is.
We make our bed, and have to lie in it .. whatever it may be.
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There.
Just as easy to claim that there is just one God and that I am the his messenger. No evidence provided.
I have no problem with the bed without an ever-lasting life. I sleep easy.
 
Aupmanyav said:
Philosophical acrobatics.
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Well that only shows that 'my' philosophy is vibrant and dynamic whilst yours is, sadly, moribund.

The philosophical thesis of a naturalistic materialism, that you seem to think defeats all other theses, has itself been defeated.

Erwin Schrödinger: "Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in terms of anything else." ('General Scientific and Popular Papers' in Collected Papers, Vol. 4. Vienna: Austrian Academy of Sciences. Braunschweig/Wiesbaden: Vieweg & Sohn. p. 334.)

Werner Heisenberg: Held that quantum physics had undermined materialism; that quantum entities as 'probabilities' rather than 'particles' supports a mathematical, Platonic realist, rather than materialist, conception of reality: "modern physics takes a definite stand against the materialism of Democritus, and for Plato and the Pythagoreans". (Heisenberg, Werner (1958). Physics and Philosophy: The Revolution in Modern Science. Harper & Row. pp. 34–35.)

Step on ... Quantum Mechanics:
"Then came our Quantum theory, which totally transformed our image of matter... An extension of the quantum theory goes beyond even this... Quantum physics undermines materialism because it reveals that matter has far less "substance" than we might believe. But another development goes even further by demolishing Newton's image of matter as inert lumps. This development is the theory of chaos, which has recently gained widespread attention. (Paul Davies and John Gribbin, The Matter Myth, Chapter 1: 'The Death of Materialism')

And on ... Digital Physics:
Digital Physics views 'information' rather than matter as fundamental: "all matter and all things physical are information-theoretic in origin and this is a participatory universe." (Wojciech H. Zurek, ed. 1990. 'Information, Physics, Quantum: The Search for Links' in Complexity, Entropy and the Physics of Information.)

Max Planck:
"As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." ( Max Planck, Das Wesen der Materie, a speech delivered in Florence in 1944).

I could list more.

None of the above, of course, are arguments for God per se, but they are arguments for consciousness being as fundamental to nature as matter, if not the superior partner of the two, which rather relegates your arguments to the bin of out-moded sciences.

Again, I do not argue against atheism – everyone has a right to believe as they wish – but I do dismiss your arguments against theism for reasons outlined above. I follow contemporary science that says an assumption of infallibility of position is untenable.

+++

Aupmanyav said:
Nothing of science here.
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Again, take the blinkers off, old chum.

My mention of panpsychism, which is gaining increasing traction in scientific circles, is sufficient to consign your theories to the bin.

Aupmanyav said:
Have not come across any such evidence. Yes, God/Gods/Goddesses can exist if FSM can exist.
Click to expand...
And here you commit the common logical fallacy of false analogy ...
 
Stephen Andrew said:
... From the Faith of Abraham, Gods become again from the spirit for all awaiting out of the Bosom of Abraham through the Christ, the Family of God conceived through the flesh from the spirit in all mankind becoming again for all Creation in One God in being...
Click to expand...
Sorry, old boy, you've lost me again.
 
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