VooDoo

Discussion in 'Pagan' started by Bandit, Mar 4, 2005.

  1. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,172
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not sure if this is where this goes.
    I was wondering about voodoo dolls. Does anyone know about them or has anyone ever made one?
    I dont want to make one, but why do people make them and where did it orginate.
     
  2. alexa

    alexa somewhere in time

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    0
    My guess is the doll represents a person in particulary and a personal think (like hair, nail, etc) is necessary in order to have a magic influence on that person. From what I know, the person in question is punished for different reasons or she has to do something to avoid the punishement. Kinda kreepy.:(
     
  3. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Hello Bandit,

    Here is what I found:

    "If one looks at the dictionary, Voodoo is likely to be defined as an ancient religion from Africa that involves the cult of Ancestors, of various animistic spirits, and the use of trances to communicate with such spirits. It is true that Voodoo did originate in Africa. Today it is practiced by millions throughout the world, in Africa, the Caribbean, Central, North and South America, in various forms, often with elements of catholicism mixed in. However, its main purpose remains as always to heal: to heal the individual in relationships within himself or herself, with others and ultimately with God...

    "...Anyone in their right mind would never use a doll (or anything else for that matter) for negative purposes or control. The laws of Karma are real and we must abide by them if we are wise. Everything we do or even think has power. We can liken the universe to a big pond and our actions and thoughts are like pebbles thrown in the pond: they create ripples which are transmitted outwardly. It is extremely arrogant to think that we can just go about our temple room or our house raving and ranting and throwing ill wishes on a variety of things and people and that it has no effect whatsoever. Or that we have absolute control over the consequences.

    "Control is a big issue here, because most people want a voodoo doll because they wish to feel more in control of some aspects of their lives. But we must realize that at any given moment in space/time, the universe is moving towards a state of harmony. So we must respect the fact that what we wish may not be "in accordance with the laws of Heaven" right now. We must have patience, acceptance, practice those qualities. Yet, we can work towards what we want to achieve, towards positive goals. So we can use the dolls in positive ways, as tools of meditation and visualization. As we work with them, they acquire more and more power. A connection is made. They are like transmitters.

    "I like to think of Voodoo dolls more as healing tools. Often times in Africa the WitchDoctor was called in to expel some illness out of a patient. Unable or unwilling to touch the patient the good doctor would work on an effigy of the patient which could be manipulated safely." Rev. Mother Severina KarunaMayi Singh, New Orleans Voodoo Crossroads

    It seems that voo doo is like any other religion. It can be used for good, or evil, but using it for evil has consequences far beyond the immediate, and those consequences can last for a long time.

    The doll is an efigy of a person. Perhaps it allows better focus on the actual person.

    I know this may sound weird, but today's "virtual surgery", with doctors miles away operating on a patient using robots that mimick the doctor's moves doesn't sound too far off from the ancient use of voo doo dolls, and healers, or "Witch doctors".

    Hmmmm...

    v/r

    Q
     
  4. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,172
    Likes Received:
    0
    hmmm.
    one of the reasons I was wondering is, awhile back one of my brothers was telling me someone left a homemade doll next to his truck leaning against the front tire. He picked it up and brought it home. That week he became very sick with stomach problems and needed a doctor and medicine. It could have just been coincidence.
    He is all good now. He broke the doll and burned it.

    Then I remember an old black and white movie years ago where someone was sticking a doll with pins and another live person was getting jabs in the stomach. You know how Hollywood is.

    So it is from Africa and has something to do with magic. That sounds kind of like the doctors you mention Q. An effect good or bad, on a person from a distance. This seems like it effects another person and not the person who makes the doll.

    Hey Alexa, do they put the hair into the doll or just keep it somewhere else?

    I wonder if I could make a voo doo doll of myself and stuff it with money and i would get rich real quick.:)

    No big deal I was just wondering a little bit.
     
  5. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,532
    Likes Received:
    8
    If I remember right, the purpose of the doll works on the principle of "Symapthetic Magic", which for wont of a more technical defintion, is focussed on trying to influence one thing by affecting a similar thing.

    A simple example might be to sprinkle water in the air as part of a ritual, to encourage rains to come.

    In the instance of the dolls, it's a case of creating a representation of a person, on the idea that anything you do to the representation will therefore also have some equivalent effect.

    Obviously, it's not so flat and simple as that - after all, after the film Star Wars, tens of thousands of action figures of the main cast were made - yet despite most of the figures being mauled, broken, or otherwise deformed over 25 years, the majority of the main stars appear to be doing fine. :)

    So one issue is to try and make the representation as close as possible by embodying as much of the original person as possible - this means trying to acquire parts of the person, such as hair, even nail clippings, or thread or piece of clothing - and work those factors into the physical construction of the doll.

    If a practitioner works really hard on this, really focuses and concentrates on the effort, and it all goes to their satisfaction, then the practitioner will feel "empowered" that whatever they do to the doll will affect the person.

    So far as I know, the basic practice involves the effigy being kept secret to preserve the magic - sort of like keeping birthday wishes secret, so as not to spoil them.

    However, if you make a person aware of what you have done, and if the person shares the same set of basic beliefs, and is led to believe that the practioner has a real and actual power overthem - then this is where Voodoun can really come into its own as a method of personal control and manipulation through fear. I believe this is where it gets it's particularly unsavoury image from.
     
  6. Sacredstar

    Sacredstar New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    GOD's energy can be used for good or less good it is similiar to psychic attack from people's negative thoughts. Being clairsentient I pick up when energy is being used for bad things. My hairs completely stand on end, while on honeymoon in the Caribbean part of a day/evening trip was to go for a BBQ and watch a voodoo demonstration, my soul responded and once again my hairs stood on end and I just had to get away from this energy so we spent the rest of the time walking in nature and sitting on the coach till others joined us. Sometimes the same happens in shops run by black witches as I walk in the hairs stand on end and I have to leave.

    One does not need a voodoo doll to do harm to others the power of intent and thought is more powerful then most realise.

    being love

    Kim xxx
     
  7. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Interesting,

    What you just described is what some call the "gift" of discernment (on a spiritual level), Wherein the "discerner" has no logical reason for coming to a conclusion that something is good or bad (call it part of a leap of faith, or intuition).

    Clairsentient...to know (be concsious of), from a distance? :confused:

    v/r

    Q
     
  8. alexa

    alexa somewhere in time

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    0
    No idea. I've never met a caplatas (black magic sorcerer).

    If you succeed, please tell me the secret. :D
     
  9. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    777
    Ditto, child. Ditto.

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
  10. Child of a New Day

    Child of a New Day New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sacred Star
    From what I have read and heard thus far (teachings from a Wiccan prospective) a black witch is an incorrect term. For example why do we associate light with good and darkness with evil. Is true Majick dark or light, could it be both? I realize this is a loaded question.

    Reagarding Voodoo I was reading that not all people who practice voodoo perform evil spells if that is what you mean. Some do not believe in hexes or harming other people. Now I am no voodoo expert (that is for sure ). I am sure what you saw must not have been good from the way you responded, just thought I would throw that in the conversation.
     
  11. queenofsheba

    queenofsheba New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Voodoo is a Haïtian fusion of catholicism and West-African polytheism. The catholic saints are assimilated with the African gods.

    In Africa, they believe that a soul can be in an object (=fetishism). By hurting the doll, they believe they hurt a human soul.
     
  12. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    1
    The use of dolls or images to perform magick is not exclusive to Voudou practitioners either. There is a long history of their use in magick all over Europe, in Egypt, in the Middle East, etc.

    There are examples of spells using little dolls and images of people in "The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation" edited by Hans Dieter Betz, for instance. These documents are known to go back to BCE times.
     
  13. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,749
    Likes Received:
    4
    you may be surprised to hear that as a graduate in portuguese who spent some time living in brazil, i have some knowledge of the theory of the brazilian varieties of afro-christian syncretism (known as candomblé and macumba) as well as a small amount of first-hand experience. actually, these systems aren't all that big on dolls, as far as i know.

    you may also be interested to hear that there is at least one (albeit obscure) jewish recipe for a voodoo doll. it's not used for cursing people though, but as a love charm. perhaps we should call that jewdoo. hur hur hur.

    b'shalom

    bananabrain
     
  14. InLove

    InLove at peace

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    4
    Hello, Peace to All Here,

    Jewdoo? That is a good one, bananabrain!
    :D

    (By the way, Portuguese is my favorite language, even though I cannot speak it or understand it all--I still think it is so beautiful! I like to listen to the music of Ivan Lins.)

    Anyway, not to derail this interesting thread....

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  15. Satanist

    Satanist New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Any Voodoo followers that can confrim or deny and extend my information thar
    that Voodoo witchcraft and african witch hunts is imported from Europe
    via collonies and missionaries?

    I have read that the witches of the Eurpean dark age (ca 5th century to ca 10century) were mix of Christian-pegans-satanists just as Voodoo balance Satanism,Christianity and native culture.
     
  16. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    9,437
    Likes Received:
    3


    Voodoo is a religion that originated in Africa and was brought to Haiti by slaves, where it is still widely practiced by most inhabitants. Most aspects of this religion are positive and it affects all aspects of the people's lives, such as morality, economics, safety, relationships and health.

    There is a revered God, an assortment of spirits, and many rituals. Worshippers communicate with their God through the "loa" or spirits. This relationshiop is based on trust and mutual give and take. The people conduct ceremonies to honor them and loas, in return, are helpful in their lives.

    The black magic aspects of this religion play a very minor role and is not typical of voodoo. In the early to mid 1900's, there were exaggerated claims about voodoo and movies portrayed followers as ignorant people who were obsessed with evil. Werewolves, zombies, the casting of spells and the use of voodoo dolls were sensationalized as the common practices of these people. In actuality the use of black magic is rare but this stereotype remains with us even today.

    The use of voodoo dolls is unheard of in Haiti and most places where the religion is practiced. The only recorded serious use of the dolls, among voodoo worshippers, was in the new Orleans area in the early 1900's. Hexes were cast to bring either good or bad luck to another person. The doll was used to symbolize that person. The sticking of pins into the doll was to reinforce and direct the spells that were cast.
     
  17. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,172
    Likes Received:
    0
    interesting. i forgot about this topic. i brought it up because awhile back someone left a homemade doll standing up next to the front wheel of my brothers truck & i think i left the story at the beginning of the thread, which turned out to be what he believed was a health issue.
    thanks for the post & history, 17th.
     
  18. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    1
    It really is sort of funny how movies and fiction have built up the idea of a doll being used for magick as being a Voudou thing, when in fact it seems it has very little use within African-based magick.

    On the other hand, there is a huge amount evidence of image and doll magick within European practice. For instance, if you do a search for "doll" at the public-domain religious and mythology text site http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm most of the many references come from European sources including Frazer's classic "Golden Bough."
     
  19. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    I remember your story. And Bruce is right. The "doll" does nothing except re-enforce the fact that someone wishes ill will or good will upon us.

    As an aside, I love the come back that the Mighty Quin gives to the "Mambo" in the movie.

    "I curse you...."

    "Mambo, I am already cursed".

    Can't argue with that...

    v/r

    Q
     

Share This Page