Mysticism in The Matrix

Discussion in 'Modern Religions' started by MalcomRazor, May 5, 2005.

  1. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    Actually, back in my youth I dropped acid, did pscilocybe mushrooms and peyote. The side effect of drugs has nothing to do with mysticism. You do realize that Carlos Castaneda was a fraud don't you?

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  2. DynoMight

    DynoMight New Member

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    No one here is talking about Carlos Casteneda. But for the record he wasn't so much of a fraud as he was guided/manipulated by a fraud (there is a difference). Did you have that sort of dirt done to you back in the days when you "dropped acid, did pscilocybe mushrooms and peyote"? I venture to say you didn't take the advice given in "The Varieties of Psychedelic Experience" and many other authorative books on the subject that say psychedelics should be experienced only in a controled environment and under controled circumstances. The study I referrenced by Johns Hopkins University also says as much.

    Matrixism: the path of the One gives the same sound and responsible advice. This is a quote from the Matrixism website:

    "Unfortunately because psilocybin and LSD are currently illegal in many parts of the world they both tend to attract unwanted attention from the agents of the system and the minions of the Merovingian (i.e. law enforcement agencies and organized crime syndicates). It is NEVER a good idea to buy illicit substances. For this reason mastery in the skill of growing psilocybin mushrooms is essential to the path of the One. Additionally psilocybin mushrooms grown by one's own self should never be sold and should only be shared with close friends and family. Lastly we highly recommend that psychedelic mushrooms be taken in private and that they be experienced in a relatively controled environment."

    Clearly if psilocybin mushrooms or any other psychedelic are taken as directed the kind of thing that happened to Carlos (and perhaps yourself) could never occur.

    Popeye, have you read the Matrixism website? It is a fairly short read:

    Matrixism: the path of the One
     
  3. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    Actually, I did psilocybe and peyote with Mexcalero Apaches. The few times I dropped acid was in nicely controlled and very peaceful circumstances.

    By the way, Castaneda admitted that there never had been a Don Juan at all. I wouldn't touch datura with a ten foot pole in those days, they don't call it "loco weed" for nothing.

    I graduated high school in 1965. I read Timothy Leary (and thought he was a manipulative son of a bitch from the first time I heard him). I found Castaneda's book interesting but figured it for fake not very far in, it lacked the control aspects and critical comment of someone doing a dissertation.

    Within a few years of my introduction to psilocybe and peyote, the folks I did it with became very active in the Native American Church, and I had become a "white eye" in their estimation.

    By '75, I became Baha`i.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  4. DynoMight

    DynoMight New Member

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    The Matrixism website and canon don't mention anything about Casteneda. It appears he has no relation to The Path of the One at all. From what you say about him and what I have heard he sounds like a real quack.

    It sounds like should have had a good and productive mind expanding experience. Of course sometimes people are not ready for such things.

    How was your trip on LSD? Did you have a good mind expanding experience or was it something else?
     
  5. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    LSD trips are like anything else--you get out of it what you brought to it. There is no outside interference or contribution.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  6. DynoMight

    DynoMight New Member

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    That would be true if the whole were just the sum of its parts. But as most educated people now know the universe is full of (in fact it is mainly composed of) emergent phenomena where were parts can integrate into new wholes that have new properties and never before existed.

    Anyhow, it sounds like you had a pretty boring trip.
     
  7. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    I wouldn't say boring, it brings out things about yourself, you might not have known about, but sifting that from the nonsense is more difficult than you would think.

    As to the first paragraph? I believe that was a fine example of noise without substance.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  8. DynoMight

    DynoMight New Member

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    Nope it's actually the modern scientific view of how the world works. Things are more than the sum of their parts. So to say that you only get out what you bring in because there is no outside factors is to negelect that things can be more than the sum of their parts. I would argue that if you bring in A and add B you might get C and not just A&B.

    Sorry to here that you brought in so much "non-sense" to sort through.

    I think that taking psychedelics can be just as good as meditating, fasting or any of the other disciplines designed to bring about mystical experience. There is a lot of scientific evidence to suggest that this is true.

    Aldous Huxley has a lot of intelligent things to say on the subject. Three of his books are referenced in Matrixism's bookstore. Both "The Doors of Perception" and "Island" are classics.
     
  9. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    Using psychedelics is like dreaming. You bring nothing to a dream that isn't there already.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  10. DynoMight

    DynoMight New Member

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    A lot of people get valuable insights from dreams. Dreams are a lot subconcious thinking. You might know "A" from experience and "B" from being taught and if you spend some time thinking about them you might come up with a new idea "C" that wasn't brought in.

    That being said mystical waking consciousness isn't the same as the subconscious dream state. They can both be beneficial in terms of creativity, problem solving and spiritual awareness but they are not the same thing.

    Not trying to call you out or anything but I think that you're just trying to demean or devalue altered states of consciousness and have the last word on it. You are probably doing this just because as a Baha'i you feel threatened by Matrixism.

    Baha'is shouldn't be threatened by Matrixism. The covenant of Matrixism only honors the covenant of the baha'i and elevates it to a new higher level. Baha'is can always adopted the principles of Matrixism and the path of the One will be there for them. As the Matrxism website says it is perfectly acceptable to be a Baha'i and a Pathist at the same time.
     
  11. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    :D Threatened?

    A Baha`i can embrace whatever philosophies he likes. The only problem to following the philosophies of the "Path" is that psychedelics are expressly against Baha`i law. Can one follow the "Path" as a philosophy without embracing the use of psychoactive drugs without a prescription and thereby coming into conflict with the beliefs of his religion? Alcohol is against Baha`i law, unless it's prescribed as a drug for treatment of some disorder.

    I know several Baha`i's who use Zen meditation, or practice other meditation philosophies.

    Since the "Path" has no Sacred Text and no "Prophet" at this point, is it more than a philosophy?

    A Baha`i can use any drug prescribed by a physician for treatment. But if a doctor prescribed alcohol, or Lysergic Acid Diethylamide-25 to me, I would ask why it would be useful for my treatment. If I were really troubled about it, I would explain why I consider using a drug to be ill-advised without good reason, and would seek a second opinion if I were not totally satisfied with the reasoning involved.

    I know several Baha`i's who have been prescribed red wine daily because of heart problems, but the amount and frequency of use was given to them in the prescription, just as if they were being prescribed anti-rejection drugs, or any coronary drugs. The doctors were always happy to make the prescription formal for them.

    A drug can be beneficial physically without being taken to an extreme that makes it psychoactive. On the other hand those who have mental disorders and are prescribed psychoactive drugs are free to take them for that purpose.

    In all things we are to be moderated in our behavior.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  12. DynoMight

    DynoMight New Member

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    Of course Matrixism is a religion and not just a philosophy. Why do you insist on insulting the path of the One? Why not live and let live?

    I for one think that Matrixism is an excellent example of mystical tradition that embraces the use of entheogens.

    As a baha'i is it right for you go around insulting and criticizing other peoples religions?
     
  13. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    It isn't my intent to insult you or anyone.

    I ask a simple question. "How can a philosophy claim to be a revealed religion if it has no Prophet and no Sacred Text?"

    I think it's a good question and deserves an answer.

    Is there a sacred text? Is there a Prophet? I know earlier in some thread or other you made the comment that the "Path" has no Text and no Prophet "as yet".

    How can it claim to be a revealed religion without either a Revealer nor a Revelation?

    I do want to know what the reasoning is.

    As to live and let live, fine. If Matricism would stop claiming Baha`i Writings as justification and misrepresenting those writings in the process, I wouldn't have to ask these questions at all.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  14. DynoMight

    DynoMight New Member

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    Just because Matrixism's text is brief (i.e. its website) and just because it's prophet is annonymous (i.e. whoever made its website) doesn't mean that Matrixism is not a religion.

    Take for example Taoism. The Tao Te Ching is very short and its author is unknown but it is still a religion.

    I rather like the conciseness of Matrixism's canon. It's like what Nieztche said [The prophet that writes a book wants to be remembered. The prophet that writes only a paragraph wants it to be memorized by wrote.]

    The annonymousness of Matrixism's prophet is also refreshing. We can at least be certain that whowever he/she is hasn't created Matrixism for fame or personal or family gain.

    Come to think of it the path of the One rocks!
     
  15. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    Actually, there are TWO Taoisms. It was founded as a philosophy sometime in the fifth century BCE either by an individual or a group of scholars who took the title Lao Tzu (Old Master). It was not until a couple hundred years later that it became religious in nature when Chuang Tzu (Heavenly Master) wrote the subsidiary text The Chuang Tzu, about a century later. Two other texts were added in the third or fourth century CE.

    As to "fame or . . . gain", Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu are titles rather than personal names. You are aware that Gautama Buddha was not the birth name of the Messenger, nor was 'Christ' the name of Jesus, nor Baha`u'llah or the Bab the birth names of the Founding Prophets. They are titles.

    As to personal fame and wealth, both Gautama Buddha and Baha`u'llah were born nobility and wealthy. Both gave that up to reveal their Messages.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  16. DynoMight

    DynoMight New Member

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    Well as long as we all agree that Matrixism is a global religion then I guess everything is cool.

    It's amazing how fast Matrixism has spread around the world.
     
  17. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Scott, there is no spoon.......
     
  18. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    Of course there is.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  19. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Realising the truth, that there is no spoon, will make you realise that it isn't the spoon that bends.... Only yourself. ;0
     
  20. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays New Member

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    How very ZEN.

    Realizing that the relationship of man to God is that of besotted lover to the object of his desire will make the existence of a spiritual "spoon" obvious.

    See we can trade empty phrases all day and neither of us will impress the other.

    Regards,
    Scott
     

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